[SOLD] Philip Zinckernagel

This is a mess of our own making though. We knew about this rule. We knew relegation was a very real possibility, and yet our actions in January were to fill the squad with 5 more foreign players and we have signed one since.

• Kamara is a replacement for Masina. A positive move and no change to foreign player numbers.
• We replaced a home grown GK in Bachmann with a foreign GK in Okoye, and while Bachmann has his issues, this was hardly the top of our transfer priorities. Bachmann is a passable championship keeper and wasting foreign spots on GKs always feels bad.
• Kayembe and Kalu were (presumably) signed with the championship in mind as noone in their right mind would think either are anywhere near good enough for the PL. Both are realistically squad filling dross and would be towards the top of the list of ideal outgoings.
• Bayo looks a reasonable squad quality signing, but he is effectively a 1 for 1 swap with Cucho. Both are foreign but we pocket £4m for trading downwards.

If we hadn't signed Kayembe, Kalu, Okoye and Bayo would we be forcing Zinkernagel out for pennies?

This can go further back with our decisions to push the likes of Hughes, Wilmot and Chalobah out for Louza, Kucka, Sissokho, Samir. The club has systematically replaced English players and / or recruited foreign dross and is now paying the consequences of their utter negligence.

Would the loss we are currently taking by forcing Zinc out be greater than the cost of writing off Kabasele's contract? Surely he can just be shifted to Udinese if it is that desperate.

 

To be fair, I doubt they knew anything about the Rule of Eleven until Edwards told them.

The trading policy of the club has had some good deals, but there are way too many poor or unnecessary trading deals, where we buy poor players for the league we're playing in, spending low fees but cumulatively amount to quite a tidy sum, and we're now selling goods players for ridiculously low fees.

I think right now, the criticism is more than justified and they've really got to turn things around quite quickly and demonstrate they are ambitious in creating a squad capable of winning the league, or the feel good factor over Edwards will disappear quicker than a puddle in the Sahara.

 

Looking at the Forest owner's charge sheet and the relationship they have with Olympiacos, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Gino, Mogi and the gang hadn't teamed up with them and this is the first of many unusual transfers between the clubs.

Like a footballing SPECTRE.

 

Do we really think that if the club went to Edwards and said you can either (i) have 12-13 foreign players and the bones of a reasonable squad or (ii) 11 foreign players and we sell your best players for a pittance; that he would have chosen the former?

Do we think the sales of Cucho / Zinc and replacing them with Bayo was an Edwards decision? No other coach has ever truly had a say at this club. Do we really think that he ignored arguably our most successful coach since GT and storied coaches like Mazzari and Hodgson, but all of sudden they are following every word of a bloke whose only experience is one season in league 2 and they are no longer providing input?

If it is the latter and they truly have changed, then they should have told Zinc, Pedro, Louza and Kamara they will be key parts of the new squad and that Kabasele, Kayembe, Kalu, Samir etc should be training on their own and made unwelcome as they did with Hughes, Chalobah etc last season.

 

Why has nobody heard of (me included) of this rule of 11?
EFL site says this
43.9 Squad Lists

43.9.1 Clubs shall be permitted to name up to a maximum number of Players in their Squad List based on the following provisions:

(a) in respect of Championship Clubs, 25 Players of which a minimum of 8 must be a Home Grown Player;

 

Nor do they at most clubs to be fair, especially those in the top 2 divisions

 

Its "apparently" a Rob Edwards demand rather than any EFL requirement.

Coaches usually have an input, but they are part of a wider decision making process. There are very few clubs where the coach has almost no say as is the case at Watford.

Which other club would spend £30m on a winger shortly after handing a 7 year deal to a coach who doesnt use wingers?

 

This rule if 11, in how Giaretta has described it's going to be used at Watford, makes no sense. Are we to believe that Edwards has stated he doesn't want any more than 11 NHG players in the squad because he doesn't want to leave anyone out? So, what about the HG players? Is he not bothered about upsetting them or are we only going to have 8 HG players and hope for no injuries. You see, the statement just doesn't stack up as being true, or rather it's an exaggeration of the truth to suit the decision over selling a very popular player in Cucho.

We are allowed a squad of 25, with as many U21's as we like. So, it makes sense to have a balance, but doesn't make sense to have the NHG player list capped at exactly 11, as there are always injuries. We've got Kabasele and Kiko FFS. We just can't name more than 11 NHG players in the matchday squad. That's all. There will be 7 players in every match squad that would be left out. That's life as a footballer. They are all used to that. In a long Championship season, you need a lot of players. You should not whittle yourself down voluntarily below 25 senior players. It makes no sense.

 

Think it’s match day squad rule which effectively means you can only pick 11 non homegrown for any game. So you can’t afford to have garbage like Kayembe/Sema sitting on the bench

 

Not true. The confusion is probably because it is a match day squad restriction rather than a general squad restriction.

 

If he leaves out a HG player it'll be on merit. There's a chance if we have 12 NHG players that a player(s) will be left out on something other than merit.

I agree ending up with 12 or 13 wouldn't be disastrous (and will likely happen) but the principle makes sense.

 

The EFL requirement is purely to do with match day squads though. As I understand it, the club claim that it is a Rob Edwards requirement the wider squad can't have more than 11.

As HB1 says above, it is hard to believe that is true. Especially in circumstances where Kiko / Kabasele are unlikely to be fit for half the games.

Again, this rule also seems more to be targeted at squad dross like Kayembe and Kalu (who may be in the squad but no the the matchday squad) rather than Zinkernagel and Cucho (who would almost certainly be in the starting 11 or at least a certain sub).

 

Ah yes, I see what you mean now. Thought you were saying there was no EFL rule at all. Apologies

 

I'm hearing the "11 non HG" rule relates to the matchday squad rather than the full squad. Trying to confirm this.

 

Good bc I'm confused.

 

To be fair I am trying to get my head around it. The original statements, or rather peoples comments, suggested it was an EFL rule (which is why I was baffled the club hadn't planned properly). It appears that is not in fact the case, and this has "apparently" come from Rob. I find that hard to believe but that may be coloured by the fact that it came out of a liars mouth.

 

Took a while, but I finally found it, under the 'Fixtures' section:

 

Ahh, so it's a positive rule then

 

Dunno. If we just have u21s who are miles off if maybe not. But guess it means we should be more circumspect about bringing in any old tat like that left back we brought in last season, and can’t shop with Mogi all the time. Not good for bringing in Udi players though.

 

Is it too much of a grenade to point out this rule is at least 4 seasons old?

 

It’s alright guys. I have it on good authority that Gino has a large stake-hold in the company that supplies the letters to Greek teams for the backs of their shirts. We’re going to make a killing out of this deal.

 

Even the most loyal COGs are struggling to spin this one

Delicious

 

Ha. Don’t remember it being much of an issue 2 years back? Did we have people missing out?

 

Nope. At least not that I can recall after that weird initial period of having two camps in training in pre-season.

 

I am genuinely fascinated to know how the Pozzo fanclub will defend this one.

 

Got excited there as thought we'd signed Callum Morton for a minute.

 

Definitely selling Zinc at peak value, with only 4 years left on his contract. Lol

 

Just because we MIGHT be getting a very decent deal for Bachmann, it doesn't mean we have to give away Zinckernagel for peanuts...

 

Ucko has just declared it “a very good summer so far”!

 

Put money on him turning up to the first game of the season with "Rule of 11" on the back of his shirt.

 

I'm not sure we had enough non home grown players that season for it to be much of an issue. Looking back at some of the starting lineups from that season we dont appear to have had more than 10/11 nhg players in the match day 17. The most I can see for a game was the home win against millwall when we had Bachmann, Feminia, WTE, Sierralta, Messina, Sarr, JP, Sema, Zinc, Lazaar, Kabs & Sanchez. At various points during the season we also had Capoue, Success, Perica & Quina instead of some of these. Assuming of course I've correctly identified players status and would JP & Quina (though perhaps hes home grown?) even been of an age then to count against the 11 player limit?

I suppose now Jp would count towards the 11 player limit plus currently we still have Sarr and would have added last season Cucho, Samir, Louza, Kayembe, the left back whose name escapes me, Sissoko (soon to be gone), Dennis (also on his way out) and now Asprilla/Bayo. So including the defenders, goalies & Zinc that makes what for this season? 18 non home grown players?

 

Let's bid £1 for Messi. Let's just hope that PSG are playing by the 'any profit is a good deal' rules.

 

Thats how is works on Twitter. “£2m plus a year loan fee for a player we signed for free is great business”. Amazing how some people think.

 

I'm intrigued to see his barometer. Probably similar to the Chernobyl line "not great, not terrible".