[SOLD] Philip Zinckernagel

Not too fussed about this one to be fair. I think he’s a bit of a luxury player and if we get some cash for him it could be a decent trade.

 

A goal or assist roughly every other game in his Championship career so far, some superb pressing numbers last season, fits fantastically in the system Edwards used at FGR (obviously we don't know if we'll be using the same system yet). Unlikely to get more than £5-6m. For me everything points to him being a big loss if he goes.

 

Maybe, but I think he’d play behind the strikers. We have Pedro and Asprilla for that role.

He’s a player we can probably afford to lose without it affecting the team too much, but I accept your view. I could be very wrong about him, but I’ve never been overly impressed when I’ve seen him play.

 

With all that being the case, and with him being available for a low price (£2m mentioned(?!)), why aren't PL clubs linked? Or even top end Championship clubs?

Forest know more about him than anyone and don't seem too fussed about bidding, even at a bargain price.

Hopefully some more sides become interested as the window goes on and we can make some decent money. If not keep him as a decent squad option.

 

Yeah, there's something of the Jurado about him.

 

A goal or an assist every other game is very unJurado.

Have to say, I'm not his biggest fan, but he's shown his worth in the division we are gonna be playing in next season, so I don't think it makes sense to get rid unless either the fee is good or he just wants out (which is a possibility)

 

Our better players are in the queue for the exit, and we were told that we wanted new players in by the time training starts - which is tomorrow. Stand by for a day of disappointment.

 

Pedro, sure, but is Asprilla ready for a 46 game Championship season? And is AM even his best position?

 

Olympiacos have the same owner as Forest, so wouldn't be surprised if there was a link between him actually joining Forest with Olympiacos paying for him (which Forest have done before) - as it seems Forest are setting their targets high with some of the loans/deals they've been linked with so far, so getting Zinc with his wages off the books at Olympiacos is a nice FFP swerve.

Because most PL sides don't play with a #10 and those that do (Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Leicester) simply have no need for him. I don't think he'd ever be more than a squad player for any club in the PL (even newly promoted teams), but we're not in the PL, we're in the Championship - where he's proven that he can do a job for 2 teams who ended up getting promoted.

 

I'd have thought Forest would pay a few £mil for him as a squad option.

It could be that maybe he just doesn't want to play in the Championship again? Also at Olympiacos he might get a chance to play in the CL, or at least EL.

 

This is true, but he can be neat and tidy whilst not seeming to do a lot.

 

AM probably would be Asprilla's best position for the time being, albeit he could be more of a box-to-box midfielder in the right circumstances in future.

I'm not sure he's ready to be effective at all in the Championship though tbh, I'd be surprised if he's up to much more next season than regular last few minute cameos in games we're either already comfortably winning or are chasing. I'd like to be wrong on that, but he really does seem incredibly raw still.

 

Hasn't he only started playing as a 10 this season? Seems it suits him, mind. Agree he's not good enough to be a starter at any PL side, am surprised no Championship have expressed an interest if he really is available for £2m.

Sure he can do a job as squad option, if we can replace him with a player with the potential to become PL quality I'd be up for that. Or if it means more minutes for JP/Asprilla/whoever

 

Well it's certainly not where he seems to plays for Envigado judging by the highlights Reids posts in the Loanees Video section.

 

These comparisons are massively disrespectful to Jurado! By Zinckernagel's age Jurado had a Europa League, Super Cup and a DFB Pokal to his name. Plus 200 appearances in major leagues.

Zinc has never, and will never reach those heights. Completely different level of player.

 

Gutted, another decent player that would be great for us.

 

I wonder if he’s being used as a makeweight in the Papa abou cisse deal.

 

Seems to be at a similar stage in his career to JP when he first came, albeit the Brazilian league is better than the Colombian league, though JP then had a few cameos in our Prem season, and actually used the lockdown to good effect by bulking up before a long, hard Championship season

 

Jurado is one of the least effective players I have ever seen in a Watford shirt, which is some going.
Sure, he was tidy on the ball but there was never any end product. Pointless player that somehow managed to play nearly every game in his season here.

 

Looking at a combination of their listed recent formations and his highlights he seems to mostly be listed as either their no.10 or right-winger, but he clearly drifts around the pitch a lot to get involved with play, whether it be infield from his starting right wing position, or deeper to receive the ball from his starting 10 position.

I don't think it's impossible for him to drop deeper later on in his career to more of a Modric/Jorginho/De Jong more creative CM, but with us no.10 seems most likely, especially given Edwards doesn't play with wingers (though as I say, when Asprilla is a wide player he's still seems more of a Bernardo Silva or Mata type playmaker drifting in from a wide role, rather than a traditional pacy attacking winger).

Playing him any deeper than a 10 early on will probably wreck both him and us anyway as he still seems to give the ball away a lot, either from loose passing or being dispossessed/outmuscled. When that happens you want it to be as far away from your own goal as possible. He also won't offer a huge amount in terms of effectiveness in tackling and screening the defence at his current stage of development, even though his general determination and work rate level seems decent enough.

 

And still, a much much better player than Zinckernagel.

 

It's easy to underrate Jurado or overrate Zinckernagel, seeing as we only ever saw Jurado in the Prem and never saw Zinckernagel against top level operators

 

If the goal is promotion, then selling a player who has been promoted two seasons in a row for peanuts seems like a bad idea.

However, I have heard from a source placed very close to the lad that a curse was placed on his family in the 11th century by a Danish mystic that ‘should any Zinckernagel achieve back to back promotions to the Premier League, let their third season suffer with inconsistency and injury.’

It’s understood Gino is aware of the curse and so this actually looks like smart business if we can squeeze £2M out of him.

 

lol Jurado was shyte, but good to see there's still a fan boy or two around, most went into hiding.

 

I will freely admit to having more appreciation for Jurado and his gifts than the majority of Watford fans/WFCForums posters.

 

You think it makes someone a fan boy to acknowledge one player is better than another, when their respective careers prove it? Really? Lol.

I think Jurado was largely average in a Watford shirt, but an important part of QSF's system in a very successful season.

 

If we get £5 or £6 million it’s a good deal, but happy enough for him to stay in our Championship squad for next season.

 

Optimistic that but if they can and get the money to invest in the squad I'd be happy with that.
I just have this nagging feeling that somebody like Cantwell will end up here. Still hoping for Twine but we'll end up with Tom Dele or Quina no doubt.

 

Sure.

He was woeful and his career after showed it.

 

Being overly kind with woeful.

 

The thing with this deal and the Cucho one (well any deal really) is context. The club have said they want to have better communication, so if there is a reason given after these sales then fair enough. Such as, the player wants to leave, or Edwards decided they didn’t fit his system, or we are replacing them with same / better and making a profit in the process.

Face value, selling Cucho for £8-10M and Zinc for £2-4M doesn’t seem great (albeit not shockingly bad)

 

Cracking argument.

You know his career after Watford also featured another 2 seasons playing consistently at a level Zinckernagel has never reached (mid table La Liga), right? Before essentially retiring for a last pay day at 32.

I don't think he was anything special by the time he got here, but you don't make 250+ apps in the PL, La Liga and Bundesliga if you're woeful, sorry.

 

Selling Zinc for £2-4m would be one of the worst bits of business any club would do all summer, and I include ourselves in that in full knowledge we are going to bring in some absolute whoppers.

We would be selling a player who (1) has proven himself extremely effective at this level in two promotion sides (2) plays in a position we have no senior cover and (3) for half the price of one Kayembe.

He has a goal or assist every other game. Do you think we have anyone capable of anything close to that in the current squad?

Do we trust the Pozzos to bring in an adequate replacement given two of the strikers we are after have (1) Nestorovski - average of 2 goals per year over the last 3 years (2) Afobe - averages 6.5 goals a year over the last 7 years.

 

Apology accepted.