[SOLD] Philip Zinckernagel

You missed the part where a big reason he's leaving is because Edwards can't spell his name.

 

Our signings since it was apparent we would be relegated are:

Kamara
Samir
Kaymbe
Kalu
Bayo

As I said in the other thread. I have a bridge to sell to anyone who thinks that the sales of Cucho and Zink have anything to do with the "rule of 11"

 

When Kamara and Samir were signed we weren't even in the relegation zone and had games in hand on two of the three teams below us. I'm not sure I'd agree 'it was apparent we would be relegated' at that point. In danger, sure. But hardly a done deal.

 

Four of those were signed in January when we were far from relegated. We also didn't have Edwards as head coach, apparently it is his decision to cut the non-homegrown players to just eleven so we never have to leave a player out. I'm not saying selling Zinckernagel is the right decision but I think people need to expect a few more disappointing departures.

 

If we were not making transfers with the knowledge that relegation was a very real possibility then the signings of Kalu and Kayembe are even more inexcusable.

Given our position it was overwhelmingly likely we were going down and we knew we would have to deal with these rules.

Edwards is clearly just being made a scapegoat by the cowards at the club who dont want to deal with criticism for selling our best players and replacing them with *****. The suggestion that Cucho or Zink wouldn't fit his system is clearly just total and utter tosh.

 

The cut the obvious dross like Kayembe, Kalu, Kabasele, Bachmann - players that are very unlikely to command a starting positions…and retain the likes of Cucho and Zinckernagel who really should have been players who get 30+ starts under Edwards.

 

Yes I agree, unfortunately the good players will always attract offers first.

 

I don't trust Duxbury or Giaretta but I also don't think the club would go out of their way to release a statement and blatantly lie about Edwards. They're not that insane.

 

Bachmann is homegrown I believe (and also seemingly heavily linked with a £4m move to United!)

Kalu (doesn’t fit system and has seemingly never settled here) and Kabasele (old, and we need to create space for a good CB recruit) I agree absolutely should be binned off. Maybe Kayembe too though I’m less fussed.

Zinckernagel is an above average CAM at this level but very replaceable. I don’t think we will do this but if we were to sell him for £4m and bring in a younger and/or homegrown player in that price bracket or on a free (Callum O’Hare, Joe Rothwell, Jed Wallace, Scott Twine) that would make sense given the Rule of 11 context and Zinckernagel’s replacement cost. Perhaps more likely is that we use Pedro there and invest instead in more of a box to box type as his replacement.

 

Really? They blatantly lie in almost every statement they make. This really shouldn't be a surprise.

Edwards might well have told them he wanted more young, British players but strongly doubt he said "I want you to flog all of my best players purely as they are foreign". Cucho and Zinc appear on the face of it to be exactly the type of players he would have wanted at the club and they fit the system and style he wants to play.

I suspect his intention is to reduce the number of bang average foreign mercenaries and instead trying to put a bit more faith in young British players (rely on Morris as your emergency back up instead of Lazaar - hard to imagine he would be worse) rather than the do away with our best players.

 

Well it seems we are selling him for £1.7m.

Try and ‘easily’ replace him for that much.

It’s incredibly bad business however it’s dressed up. Have to stay the course through the window and see how it ends up - but the signals of the past 48hrs are pretty horrendous.

 

That is a banter fee. #firesale

 

Agreed that’s a very low fee. Much harder to replace him for that than for twice as much.

 

I can't for the life of me understand our ownership. Literally nothing they do ever makes any logical sense - we are selling a player well below market value for no apparent reason - baffled and fed up.

 

We spent more than double on Kayembe than we are receiving for Zinckernagel. Let that sink in.

Then ask if the needs of the team are placed above the needs of the Bayat family.

 

Two promotions under his belt, good age and 4 years left on his contract - pretty confident we should be asking or £8M+. The player would be far more valuable to us than £1.7M, particularly with where we'll probably end up spending it.

 

In Gino we troost-ekong.

 

Exactly, this is a guy they are apparently backing like no other manager in our recent history so it would make little sense to effectively through him under the scape goat bus on his second day in the job. Also, wasnt it reported that Edwards and he hierarchy have a meeting before the players returned about the players, recruitment, out goings etc? Unfortunately we seem to be in a situation where we need to shift players before we can bring some in and it appears that no one is currently willing to match our valuation of Sarr or moving particularly quickly for Dennis or Sissoko. I'm disapointed to be loosing Cucho and Zinc, as they would have been very good for us this season imo, but unlike some of our other foreign players other clubs actually want them

 

£8m is a very high valuation in my opinion. Which side would pay that for him? Anything more than £4-5m prices him out of a championship move and Forest, the weakest of the promoted sides and the club at which he was on loan last season are not interested in resigning him. He’s almost 28 so you’re not paying for potential either.

The quoted £1.7m is obviously far too low but I just don’t see how/from whom/in what world we’d get £8m.

 

I dont really rate him but 1.7 million seems a bit low. Complete insanity to be letting him go for that.

 

It’s totally baffling because in between all the totally justified criticism we give our owners, one thing most people believe is they negotiate a hard deal when selling.

We’ve generally praised them before for getting top whack for the likes of Richarlison and even players who’ve never/barely kicked a ball for us.

There’s been general approval too for the revenue they’ve brought in through loan fees.

So, if this £1.7 million figure is true, it just seems completely bizarre. If we’ve decided (wrongly in my opinion) that we want to sell him, at least hold out for a decent fee. A player who has won consecutive promotions, who scores goals and creates them too.

 

They say that they are saying they are backing him, but their actions suggest otherwise. The Pozzo regime have shown for years now their words are completely worthless.

Selling our best players for cut price fees, spending the funds on overpriced Bayat ***** and blaming it on Edwards is not backing him. It is using the fan's positive mood around him as shield for their actions which are detrimental to the club.

When they actually start doing what they say they are doing - i.e. bring in starting eleven quality young, English players and shift some of our old ***** and foreign Mogi *****, I will start to believe them. Bayo and Afobe suggest it is all more of the same from them.

How many times do we need to be told "this time will be different" before people stop believing them?

 

Waiting for WD18 to announce this a fantastic piece of business.

 

It seems to be a fire sale. The club can spin anyway they like, but selling Cucho and Zinckernagel for around £10.2m is absolutely insane. What they are doing is really worrying. I get we need to sell the obvious high-earning Premier League level players. We all accept Dennis, Sarr, King, Sissoko have to go. That's all fine, but when they start selling the players who are still of high quality for the Championship, it's a huge concern. It's sends out the wrong message. Where's the statement of intent?

Zinc is proven in the Championship, and would have been a perfect fit for an Edwards system. How are we going to replace that type of quality for £1.6m? Even though I'm a little more relaxed with Zinc going, selling Cucho for just £8.6m is just nuts. We sold Lukebakio for around £20m, and he's not as good as him....IMO. I just don't get what they're doing.

If we're looking at our current squad without Dennis, Sarr, Cucho and others it's really devoid of genuine quality. Bayo, who looks good in video clips I admit, failed in the Scottish Premier and he's subsequently played at lower levels than the Championship throughout his career. He's not a solid bet to score numerous goals. Afobe is a mid-table journeyman Championship striker, only marginally better than Fletcher, although it looks as though Afobe doesn't want to come anyway, which I'm quite pleased about. But we need to be looking a better options than this, if we're allowing so much quality to leave. We're not going up with the current squad once the leavers have gone. There has to be some greater plan behind all this which has not been revealed yet (I'm hoping anyway).

 

Where's the £1.7m figure come from? Awful deal for us if true

 

I agree with much of your post but the Belgian League isn’t a lower level than the Championship. It is slightly higher. Someone shared a post on here from Five ThirtyEight showing that Charleroi were on par with Middlesbrough.

 

Maybe the plan is to pay back Macquarie asap before we end up like Derby or Bury?

 

There seems to be surprise in your statement, but this is how things have been for the last 3 years. Sell anyone there is interest in. Reinvest a percentage of the proceeds in Bayat players and then fill the squad with unwanted Udinese players and free transfers / loans.

Fuxbury said the other day that the club is in a good place financially. That is either a lie or these sales are not required and are being done solely because Gino wants to cash in.

 

Well.....maybe, and SD said he wanted to pay that off in two years. I suspect that meant gaining promotion this season as well to make that happen. But, £1.7m from the Zinc deal is not going to make much of a dent. We've already spent (apparently) £4.7m on getting Bayo.

It's a horrible mess the hierarchy have placed us in. Sure the debt can be serviced, but at what cost to the team? We've got to create a competitive side capable of gaining promotion. So far, the plan looks like sell anyone we can. No one of any note will consider signing for a clubif the impression is we're heading in the wrong direction. It's almost like we've gone back 12 years to the times where we had to blood academy players who were not up to the task just in the hope we survive in the Championship.

 

Some have been pining for this exact scenario for years. Pozzo finally bending to the will of the BedWetters

 

In an ideal world you would of course be correct but this world is far from ideal. Bachmann and Kabasele, I could see clubs being interested. This rule of eleven will either mean a lot of our Under 23's playing or there will be a lot of incomings on the way. I wasn't that bothered by Zinc when he was here but the way he played at Forest would seem to suit Edwards philosophy down to the ground