New European Super League

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Yes and this was announced on the same day as the ESL. Quietly passing without much comment.

    Weird that.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  2. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I think delusional is a little unfair. He's talking like a businessman and not a football man. Bernie Ecclestone, towards the end, just thought about money and power, not about the quality of racing (which has been just awful for 20 odd years).

    Perez is just the same. Bumbling old fool scrambling for power and a legacy beyond his own team which wins every year in a three team league.
     
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  3. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Nothing could make F1 interesting.
     
  4. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I think the issue comes from the term ‘unsustainable’ and its relation to where you are in the football pyramid. It could be argued Man United could be relegated to the National League North, keep all their star players and wage bill and be bankrolled by the Glazers. That’s sustainable but for how long?

    When clubs are relegated etc, they have to lay off staff, sell players etc etc and change a lot of their working model and practices - it’s ‘sustainable’ for as long as you don’t go out of business.

    I think the point being made (not saying I’m for or against it) is that a salary cap would perhaps level it off to an extent that clubs wouldn’t have to rip up their working practices so extensively just to remain solvent AND competitive.
     
  5. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Oh, well that’s ok then.
     
  6. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Each to their own but I find F1 incredibly boring and a little ‘Truman Show’ interference sounds alright.
     
    Keighley likes this.
  7. 99mph

    99mph 4th Prediction league 2011/12

    OK maybe F1 was not a good example :D
     
  8. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I rest my case
     
  9. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    No more "overpaid" primadonnas, loads of superstar academy products like Dan Phillips and Toby Stevenson. No more batterings by Man City. No more foreign owners. No more slick playing surfaces. Just real, salt-of-the-Earth, local football, for the real fans! This is what lots of you want, right?! You should be actively campaigning for administration!
     
  10. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Well if you had to sell your house to sustain your lifestyle (avoid bankruptcy) would you say your lifestyle was sustainable?
     
  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    As is, Arsenal could finish 10th and West Ham 5th, but Arsenal win the mediocre Europa League and get Champion's League, and West Ham still just Europa. I don't think that's really much different to what the new plan for the 2 slots are and yet people aren't fussed by it.

    It's still based on "merit", but just using an additional measure, i.e. how well you've done in Europe across the previous 5 seasons.

    It's also different to the Super League in that it's still dynamic to some degree; the main problem I had with the Super League was that there was no chance of relegation for the 20+ years it was intended to exist.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
    Happy bunny likes this.
  12. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    They don't have to as it is, but they choose to. Real Madrid didn't have to just offer Alaba that deal, they could tried to sign another player for less if they couldn't afford it, but they decided that overall it was still worth it. That's just how the market goes.
     
  13. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    So what does that mean for the rest of the teams? What does that mean for the fans?
     
  14. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    The fans get to still pay their money to watch the club they've chosen to watch, no doubt in large part because they're successful and have lots of the best players, continue to be successful and have lots of the best players.

    The rest of the teams can continue to sign whichever players they want and can get, with however much money they have to spend. The fans of those clubs can continue supporting those clubs with less money to spend on players and continue supporting them however successful they ar or aren't.

    And the world keeps spinning.
     
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Of course, no one is disputing thats the way the market is.

    But they shouldn't complain about losing money hand over fist whilst still spending huge sums elsewhere. Thats simple economics.
    None of them are willing to look internally for their financial failings and would rather throw the blame out externally.

    If they want to buy Alaba on those kind of sums, they are free to do so. But the argument arises that when the balance sheet looks terrible at their AGM, they need to look into their own mirror rather than hold it up to everyone else.
     
  16. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I hear what you're saying and I personally would like to see football reset to redress the balance between the top clubs and those further down, reduce ticket prices etc - but, much as I dislike the current footy model, I don't think its unsustainable.
     
  17. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Their public complaining is a different issue and of course a bit pathetic.

    Clearly they can somehow afford to continue as they are while signing Alaba even without the Super League, or else they wouldn't have done it - they're just throwing out this sob story because the Super League would earn them even more than the large amount they are already making.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  18. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    We agree.
     
  19. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Paradoxically I think the Super League would have led to pay cuts for players for the simple reason that if there's no risk of a club dropping off the gravy train why would owners feel the need to grab the best players and pay them so extravagantly for their services? At the end of the day, these people aren't in football for the sporting glory that comes with actually winning something (see the back slapping for finishing 4th in the EPL). It's just fear of losing top flight status - and the wheelbarrows full of dosh that goes with it - that prompts clubs to pay over the odds for, in some cases, very mediocre players
     
    miked2006 likes this.
  20. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Slightly off topic as far as this point is concerned, but going back to the wider point, if salary caps are so good for owners and so bad for players (and the working class?) why do you never hear any clubs or owners pushing for them? Why did these clubs feel the need to spend months or years creating a breakaway league, when a simple salary cap would (supposedly) better line their pockets?
     
  21. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I guess it depends if there was a merit based element to the revenue share within the league. The ESL would only make them money if people would pay to watch and continue to pay to watch it in growing numbers.
     
  22. lm_wfc

    lm_wfc First Team

    Anyone else surprised by the level of outrage here? The top clubs and auditoria have been pushing similar things for years/decades. The world cup allocations have been corrupt and led to 1000s of deaths. Dirty oil and blood money has funded the game.

    Yet the reacripn to the ESL seems to have flipped a switch. Was it Neville and co with their early outrage that got the ball rolling before any spoke out in support of it?
     
  23. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I'm sure the cosy way they planned to carve it up would have meant the cash value of finishing , say 7th instead of 8th, would be about enough to buy Messi a new jockstrap
     
  24. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    One of the main reasons would have been that it would have negatively affected the revenue streams of so many different parties - from broadcasters like Sky (who also have their own news outlet they can spread propaganda via), to all the remaining top flight clubs not involved in the league (who can also put out biased statements quickly via their social media channels).

    A World Cup in Qatar does not affect the bottom line of Sky or BT, or pose much direct threat to the fans of West Ham or Leeds, so they can maybe do some hollow gestures before shrugging their shoulders and moving on.
     
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  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  26. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    I read an article (I think it was The Guardian) about why it imploded so quickly and so spectacularly. The piece said that the leaked news on Sunday caught the teams involved - and their associated PR machines - on the hop and they then messed up by not getting their own statement out until much later that evening. By the time they did, the “anti ESL” news flow and messages had gained too much momentum. I think the phrase that was used was “shouting against a hurricane” in relation to those trying to get their pro ESL points across to the public. Manchester City and Chelsea were both in it for kuodos rather than financial necessity so were the quickest to get cold feet once the fans made the strength of their feelings known.
     
    lm_wfc likes this.
  27. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Interesting to read how the reaction against the proposed ESL was much less strong in Spain (and to some extent Italy) than here and that Perez is on somewhat stronger ground than you might think in claiming that it still could happen. I understand that outside of the bigger cities whose teams can sometimes be competitive, many people follow Real or Barca in a Rangers/Celtic way, so that there is nothing of substance in their football below the top two divisions. I would be interested if anyone knows how long B teams have been part of their leagues, but it must be the lack of a strong pyramid that allowed them to be accepted. All this means that Spanish fans are more amenable to the concept of a permanent elite in their game and so are more likely to accept it on a European level.
     
  28. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    If the market demands rule changes:
    [​IMG]
    Then I'm all for it.
     
  29. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    I refer the honourable gentleman to my post #518.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
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  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Love his comments from the game at the weekend...

    Somehow alluding that we are only a team of 11 individuals and not a ‘proper team’ like them and the latter will always win.

    He may want to look at the league table.
     
  31. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    His remarks presumably stem from disbelief that L*ton's 1988 league cup win didn't lead to an invitation, right @Hemelad
     
  32. Wexford-yellow

    Wexford-yellow Academy Graduate

  33. foxywfc

    foxywfc Reservist

    Talk above of salary caps. If they implemented this but the excess from wages went back into football instead of wealthy owners back pockets it could work. I have no idea how this would work, but my vision would keep ticket prices low and benefit grassroots and the non league somehow?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  34. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    From POPBITCH:
    *I've always loved the fact that Popbitch received a "Cease and desist..." letter from the Beckhams' high-falutin' legal team to stop referring to them as
    "Thick 'n' Thin"
    .
     
    HappyHornet24 likes this.
  35. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    Just read on SSN that the other 14 clubs are very keen on the big 6 being punished. Doesn't look like there'll be any points deductions though.

    This doesn't surprise me.

    Spain has a massive fanboy culture, meaning that, as opposed to the UK, where there quite strong pride in following your local side, Spanish support is dominated by Real and Barcelona.

    They are both odious clubs to the very core and garner support from kids and idiotic adults far away from these cites and whom have no connection to Madrid or Catalan culture, but who follow them because these clubs are successful and nothing more. It's a huge shame but yes, I'm unsurprised that the reaction has been more muted there.
     
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