New European Super League

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’m not surprised by the reaction, yes Sky etc. Stoked it up as to be expected, but it’s the closed shop aspect that crossed the line for most normal fans.

    PBP got a similar reaction and that didn’t really affect sky, that wasn’t creating a closed shop, but they wanted special voting rights for 12 clubs, no parachute payments and the ability to veto new ownership. It wasn’t a closed shop in name, but it was an attempt to pretty much sew up permanent membership for 12 clubs, one of them bizarrely being Southampton, but not Leicester.

    The ESL was a move to a completely closed shop which was a step too far. I think most fans accept the money in football and that the bigger clubs are naturally greedy, but most accept that in the basis it’s in theory a level playing field. The elite trying to shore up wealth for themselves made from previous generations of real fans was always a step too far, Sky or no Sky.
    Cthulhu likes this.
  2. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Dublin pulled from the Euros so two more games for Wembley, apparently Spurs had put their stadium forward but UEFA now won’t give them any games because of the ESL :p
    Smudger and El distraído like this.
  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    If Project Big Picture was positively voted through, would the start have been immediate or would there have been a start date of this summer for the new rules?

    Just wondering if it was an underhand pre-cursor to the ESL and if they were trying to knowingly stitch others up before bringing forward the ESL plans in the safe knowledge that the new status quo meant the others couldn’t stop them.
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I think it could have only started from next season, as reducing the league to 18 teams would’ve been difficult to introduce half way through a season in terms of promotion and relegation. The special voting rights for 12 clubs would’ve definitely made it easier for them to then join the ESL though.
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    A chance maybe that had Project Big Picture been voted through, that perhaps any ESL announcement may have been held back until PBP had begun? We will likely never know.

    But I doubt the two plans weren’t linked in the minds of the ‘Top 6’ for sure.
    a19tgg likes this.
  6. Filbert

    Filbert Leicester supporting bloke

    This. They can both get in the bin.
    El distraído likes this.
  7. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    Has everyone read the full interview? I agree with 99mph that Florentino Pérez is delusional and he does seems out-of touch with reality. He contradicts himself at some points and he makes some very strange claims. Here are a few examples:

    He stated that none of the 12 clubs have left the European Super Liga (even though 10 clubs have announced that they are no longer involved in this project) because none of the clubs have yet paid the penalty clause for breaking the contracts which they signed. Perhaps technically correct, but contradicted by public statements (and, in many cases, apologies) from these 10 clubs.

    Pérez said “The owners (of the Premier League clubs) are mostly not English. They’re not in it to make money, they have teams in America, love sport and they found themselves in a position they didn’t expect. They’re old, they got scared,” said Pérez, who is 74 and the oldest of the club owners/ presidents.. Does anyone else seriously believe that the principal motive of these American businessmen (in buying the Premier League clubs) was not to make money? The motives of the owners of Chelsea and Manchester City were different and probably more about gaining prestige.

    He denied that there was almost universal opposition to the project. Asked about the Chelsea fans who gathered outside Stamford Bridge, he said: “There were 40 of them and if you like I’ll tell you who brought them there.” I have looked at photographs of the demonstrations and there were clearly many more than 40 demonstrators there. Television reports estimated numbers between 800 and 900. When he was brought back to that remark later, asked to say who it was who had planted the fans there he made reference to anti-super league T-shirts that La Liga had arranged for players to wear before this midweek round of games, including Madrid’s trip to Cádiz. “Well, the person who put them there,” he said “Like the one who organised the T-shirts in Cádiz. The same, the same. This isn’t normal.” He was referring to the president of La Liga, Javier Tebas..

    ”It cannot be that in England, the six lose money and 14 make money. In Spain the top three lose money, and the others make money. That can’t continue; it is the rich are those who are losing money.” Many of the other La Liga clubs and 14 Premier League have been making losses and have also been severely impacted by the pandemic. Valencia has a debt of more than 400 million euros. Burnley was a well-run and moderately profitable club, but the ALK Capital takeover has left the club £90m worse off and loaded it with debt by transferring the cost of the take-over to the club (as the Glazers did with Manchester Utd.).

    The difference between these clubs and the so-called ‘big clubs’ (who spend a great deal more) is the scale of losses. Ironically Pérez gave the interview on the same day that Real Madrid announced the signing of David Alaba on a 5 year contract. Alaba will be getting around €12 million net in wages per season and close to €20-30 million as a signing-on fee at the Spanish club. That will make him only the fourth highest earner at Real Madrid.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
    99mph likes this.
  8. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    50+1 apparently on the table for the Government's fan-led review, along with the possibility of an independent regulator and a review of the various "fit and proper" tests.

    Done correctly it would be good news if even half of this came off.
    El distraído likes this.
  9. PotGuy

    PotGuy Forum Fetishist

    I don't think 25 + 0.5 will be anywhere near as effective to be honest
    lm_wfc, Otter and Arakel like this.
  10. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Jokes aside, if the 25 + 0.5 was in the hands of the fans, it would actually help. It would give the fans negative control; i.e. while they can't force their wants through, they would be able to say no to anything they didn't like.
  11. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Perez comes across as a complete moron. A geriatric who has lost touch with reality and facts. A completely embarrassing man.
  12. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    You could replace Perez's name with any poster on this forum and that sentence would still be correct.
    El distraído likes this.
  13. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Fifty plus one should be enshrined in law for the governance of clubs. For too long owners and clubs have taken their fans for a ride be it merchandising, moving fixtures at a whim, the cost of season tickets and other matters.

    Money should not keep disappearing into the pockets of agents and players. How about directly funded stadium renovations, discounted season tickets to encourage the young, women, ethnic minorities or those in difficult circumstances to come and watch. After all football is about more than a sport but a sense of togetherness and inclusion. Money directed to community schemes, making sure clubs are sustainable both economically and environmentally. Better governance and less greed would go a long way. Fans of all clubs need to keep this pressure going and realize that in the end the ultimate power lies with them. For what is a sport without spectators or subscribers. Just a higher quality of kick about.

    As for Perez he is the devil incarnate. Along with Juventus. This remember is a club that ditched a crest for commercial reasons. The wording of their response and that of AC Milan clearly indicates how they see football. Long term value, industry while ignoring that their current models are unsustainable and claiming to become sustainable by destroying the aspiration of other clubs who are far better run financially.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    There can be no let up in the pursuit of introducing rules that ensure clubs like Real or Barcelona can spend away while living on enormous debt which allows them to compete unfairly with clubs that live within their means.
  14. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    I see that yesterday The Times consumer affairs correspondent suggested that the answer to football's problems is to enlarge the goals. Young people are losing interest in football, he says. But isn't it that they are being priced out by greedy big clubs?
  15. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Sunday Times reports today that Boris Johnson met Man Utd Chief Executive Ed Woodward three days before the announcement, giving him no indication the Government had any concerns about the proposal.

    Once the public reaction was clear Johnson raced to present himself as a people’s champion leaving Woodward feeling what the DUP and various women previously have after receiving Johnson’s apparent support.
  16. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    And now the Real Madrid owner is suggesting that matches should be shortened to take account of young people's short attention span. Everyone seems to be stealing the ideas I put forward ironically a quarter of a century ago - but now they actually mean them. ****heads.
  17. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

  18. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Where have they got this idea that young people aren't interested in football anymore?
  19. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    They're old gits who've never met a young person.

    If there are fewer young people at matches these days it's because they're priced out. Standing should be allowed again now technology can control entry.
    luke_golden and UEA_Hornet like this.
  20. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Exactly. Shock horror - ticket prices go up and up, shirt prices go up and up, watching all the games requires a mortgage to pay for several tv subscriptions and wadda you know, only those with disposable income can do the full fan thing.
  21. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I assume lots of young people also stream matches, so the viewing/ subscription data will incorrectly look like they aren’t watching when they are.
    Happy bunny likes this.
  22. lm_wfc

    lm_wfc First Team

    Got to be honest I struggle to pay attention for 90 minutes sometimes.

    Once we are mid table after January I don't even watch our games. You could make the superleague 30 mins with overhead kicks, red cards, dancing, explosions and lasers and I still wouldn't care if theres 15 clubs there with nothing to fight for each year
    CarlosKickaballs likes this.
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    9 of the the clubs have been fined but..

    What will happen to these guys then?

    "However, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus are set to face "appropriate action" under Uefa's disciplinary process"
  24. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    The government are in talks with UEFA about the CL final. UEFA are to make a decision by Wednesday, particularly as Turkey has been added to the UK red list.

    In my opinion if it wasn't for the ESL nonsense recently, I think UEFA would have had no hesitation in the switch, I wonder whether UEFA would effectively punish both clubs by insisting it stays in Istanbul.

    Also it's a win-win for Boris. Get it switched and he can say that the government played a part in it, if it's not switched it's a case of "we lobbied them but they chose to stick to the original venue".
  25. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Not sure about that at all. When stadiums get picked to host finals I believe it requires the host FA to bung quite a bit of cash to UEFA. The Champions League final is a prestigious event and normally brings economic benefits to the host city. A lot in UEFA really hate the English exceptionalism that comes through in everything our media and fans say too. There wouldn't be a peep about it if it was two Spanish sides in the final. And finally of course UEFA don't really care if fans of the two clubs can go. They'd just as happily give a third of the tickets to sponsors and leave the rest for either locals or those travelling from countries that don't bar travel to Turkey. It would still sell out comfortably and with the added bonus of no English numpties parading around their city.

    The only thing that makes it a possibility is Wembley is penciled in to host in 2024. If the Turkish FA are up for a swap and a sweetener on top to cover any out of pocket expenses they've already incurred that might be enough to buy them off.
  26. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    The play off finals are already at Wembley. They should move it to Birmingham so it is central to both teams.
  27. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    One of the big Scottish Stadiums might be a good compromise, like Hampden or Celtic Park or even The Millennium in Cardiff.

    Having said that, it does not need to be a big stadium at all as long as it is modern with good facilities and good transport links as the crowd will not be that big.
  28. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Yup. And I imagine that's what they'd do.
  29. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    The fans aren't the issue, it's the players. The whole lot of them would have to quarantine at one of the government approved hotels after the match, which of course would impact players' preparation for the Euros. Just because they're footballers, they won't be exempt. The English IPL players who returned from India are all in quarantine now.
  30. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Of course it would never be a consideration for the likes of UEFA, but irrespective of Covid it's ludicrous to sanction the carbon cost of everybody schlepping over to Turkey when both participating clubs are from England.
  31. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    So what's the alternative then? Wait until the finalists are known before a host city is picked?
  32. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I take the point. But UEFA would say that's in the UK government's gift - they set the quarantine rules - and football has already been operating with Covid bubbles and protections for most of the season. Plus I'm sure the Turkish government would offer assurances around having Covid-secure accommodation, training facilities etc.
  33. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Why not? They make way too much of a big deal of where the final is held because of the money flying around. That's exactly what they used to do with FA Cup semi-finals before they were moved to Wembley. Chelsea v Man City? That'll be Villa Park.
  34. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    So in early May it turns out the final is Man City v Roma. Most of western Europe is between the two. How do you decide the host stadium in 3 weeks? Seems highly likely to be extremely biased towards the big footballing nations to me. In fact, given there's been 1 non-ENG/ITA/SPA/GER finalist in about 17 years it would basically lock in those countries' superiority.
  35. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    The tournament itself is “extremely biased towards the big footballing nations”. Awarding the final venue to ‘lesser’ countries should not be the antidote to that.

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