New European Super League

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. I suspect one of the more important but quiet long term benefits will be from the resignations from leading roles in the ECA and UEFA when these slimy toads thought they were getting their cake and eat it. 4 at least that I read about. These clubs not only have come back tail between the legs but have lost influential positions as well.
    Happy bunny and UEA_Hornet like this.
  2. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

  3. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    But the lovely character Boris said the same about vaccine development but then he said it was bad football's development!!!!

    Won't somebody tell what to think????????????
  4. ForzaWatford

    ForzaWatford Squad Player

    Think this proves that being rich doesn't mean you're clever. The whole thing was so badly thought out, it was embarrassing.

    The stupidest thing is, I think they probably could have got this through if they didn't make it such a blatant money grab. If it wasn't a closed shop I don't think the anger would have been quite so intense, and they probably could have just about got away with it.
  5. 99mph

    99mph 4th Prediction league 2011/12

    It seems that UEFA still approved the revised changes to the Champions League format which includes slots for teams that did not qualify for the CL, but have performed well in past years. See here.

    So a team could perform badly enough to not earn/qualify for CL (like maybe Liverpool this Season) but still get invited in....

    One can argue it's to reward teams like Ajax a few seasons ago when they did really well. But it's more likely to guarantee that the usual teams get a slot. It's much like the proposals for the ESL, but just on a much smaller scale.
  6. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    It definitely didn't. Maybe it wasn't quite as apparent when the most extreme fans quit for other clubs, but those who remained continued to despise Woodward and the Glazers.

    Liverpool fans have been more fickle, but to be fair, even United fans might have come around to the Glazers if they had achieved the same level of success as Liverpool.
  7. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Shame its collapsed I would have enjoyed the premier league more.

    It'll come again though. Like in dangermouse, Baron Greenback never gets stopped, just delayed until the next scheme to steal footballs riches.
  8. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    There's nothing quite like a sincere apology and this is...

  9. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

  10. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    That’s interesting. I can’t say that you’re wrong, but it’s not my perception of what happened. The Glazers took over in 2005 and Man U then won the PL five times as well as the Champions League before Ferguson retired. I think a lot of their fans were pretty happy with that in comparison with how Liverpool were doing in the same period. I assumed that was why the initial outrage over loading the club with debt, leading to the Green and Gold protests, subsequently waned.
  11. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    My original point is that Liverpool fans won’t look at it like that. They will credit Klopp, Salah, Mane, Firmino and the rest for bringing the glory, not FSG.
  12. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Fitting that the attempt to remove relegation from football lasted from the 18th to the 20th.

    Stolen from Twitter
    Arakel, Otter, Knight GT and 4 others like this.
  13. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    FSG have had a LOT of praise in recent years for their running of Liverpool.
  14. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I might be wrong but I don’t remember seeing any banners with an image of John Henry on the Kop like there are of Liverpool managers and players, past and present.
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    You’re (accidentally) misconstruing the point. I’ve not said they ‘idolise’ FSG like they do their managers and players up there. But they have very clearly been overwhelming in their praise of Fenway Sports Group in recent years and how they have helped return the glory back after a long barren spell. So much so that I would suspect the vast majority of Liverpool fans would be willing to give them another chance in the fullness of time as long as they work for it.

    This is all relating to the original point of Jamie Carragher saying the best thing they can do is sell up as they won’t be forgiven. I really don’t see that as being true.
  16. Premier League seeks 'big six' clubs' removal from committees after Super League debacle | Business News | Sky News

    Further loss of influence in the PL for these clubs
  17. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    I really wish they'd buggered off. Without the 'big 6' the EPL would be awesome - like the Championship on steroids
    Jumbolina likes this.
  18. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Surely now is the time for the majority of clubs to take decisive action to curtail the so called G17 or whatever they like to call themselves and make football more competitive again. They should know from now on that they are safe in negotiating equal payments from media deals. Because of the so called elite say it is not fair then all the other clubs can tell them if they don't like they will have to lump it or leave football.

    Changes that should apply to all leagues as in other countries the cut of television revenue is heavily in favour of a few teams. The chance to take firm action against agents, renegotiate payments to other clubs for juniors taken away like our own Sancho, and to make the whole framework more equitable. The whole thing of these elite clubs holding power has been shown to be an illusion and a massive delusion on their part. UEFA ought to reconsider the current plans once again instead of looking at their own coffers and lining the pockets of those that are almost in permanent residence there while others have to fight and scrap just to get a chance to compete in the spectacle.

    Those dithering about decisive action should remember that the Hydra will sprout more heads if allowed and they will be shafted again in future unless these teams are punished unequivocally and brought to heel. A new system of club governance would be welcome as well with more input from fans of clubs and indeed if possible shareholdings so that some of the despicable things owners throughout the pyramid have tried to pull on clubs can be brought to a stop.

    Recent years have turned what used to be a great sport into a game of financial numbers and which it unfortunately will remain. It has also brought great disillusionment to many fans who no longer feel any connection to the sport. It really is an opportune moment to reverse the clock and bring it back to a time where fans of all clubs could genuinely dare to dream. And UEFA do not get off either. They also need to reform and allow for the voices of the many to have equal weight as opposed to the shrill whining demands of a few. And the need to pander to corporations such that showpiece finals have more guests invited than actual supporters. In order for this to happen the greed from players and agents also needs curtailing. They may have spoken out about this SL but they need to understand their demands means clubs were looking to find ways of funding their wages and the exorbitant demands of agents.

    FFP needs actual implementation. How an earth a club like Real Madrid or Barcelona can get away with the amount of debt they have is mind boggling while at the same time they have their eyes set on Mbappe and Haaland. If rules were enforced both clubs should be in the Tercera. Status should not grant exemption. No wonder these scoundrels are desperate for this to still take place:

    Cthulhu and Lloyd like this.
  19. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    This will happen. The trust is gone. I don’t see the PL and the other 14 clubs backing down on this at least - but what they mustn’t do is allow the different people from those clubs back in with the same aim. The guidelines need to be rewritten in their absence.

    The fact that one executive reacted ‘angrily’ to the suggestion tells you all you need to know. They still don’t understand and feel like they were doing the right thing. They’ve been forced into their climb down and that’s what needs punishment.
  20. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

  21. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

  22. You’d like to think the Top 6 have the common sense to pipe down and sit quietly at the back of the room for a while
  23. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    I am enjoying the damage control by their media mouthpiece 'we need a step back and not overreact'
  24. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    Would salary caps pass in any country? Would set a horrendous precedent for other industries.
  25. CarlosKickaballs

    CarlosKickaballs Forum Picarso

    I wouldn't mind a 'Champions League' where the literal champions are promoted to it for a season and removed from their own league. Maybe with a guaranteed return to their old league the next year if they don't win that CL. The incentive for teams with no chance to finish top is each league place would be worth £10m more
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
    Cthulhu likes this.
  26. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Sorry but that's just ridiculous - the big 6 are still part of the PL and have as much right to make their voices heard on such committees as any of the other clubs; it's hardly as if none of the other lower clubs will have ever put forward ideas which may have turned out to be unpopular. Surely the point of such committees is to debate?!
  27. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Horrid idea - the market decides the salaries. If clubs can't afford the salaries then they wouldn't offer them.

    Football is one of the few disciplines where people from poor, working class backgrounds have a decent chance of becoming rich - introducing salary caps would just see the clubs hold on to more of the money themselves, further enriching executives and shareholders instead; is that what you'd really prefer?
    foxywfc likes this.
  28. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I'm completely fine with these 2 slots being included - the winner of the inferior Europa League is currently gifted a CL spot and no one bats an eyelid, so I'm not sure why people take such an issue with rewarding a couple of clubs who would have likely gotten far in the tougher Champion's League in recent seasons.
  29. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Lol, Yeah, I suppose nobody wants to limit some poor kid from a working class backgrounds ambition to say, £400k a week, how would they ever survive? Probably enough to make them give up on the idea of being a footballer in the first place.

    Any player could and would still get obscenely rich from football with salary caps in place!

    It could easily work if it was done properly, based on a percentage of turnover and the player franchise model.

    Also you know full well the bit in bold is idealistic at best, the exact opposite to that actually happens and it’s why we’ve reached this point in the first place. Not to mention if you have state backed teams competing against normal teams, the normal teams will always stretch themselves to compete. Why are so many of these teams in hideous amounts of debt?

    You can’t seriously believe the current system works?
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  30. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Chelsea 'made' a £16.6m 'profit'? It what alternative universe is this? The was something in a Private Eye that their 'debt' to Abramovitch was running at around £1.6bn...
  31. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    You mean you'd rather Malcolm Glazer had a net worth of $4.1 billion, instead of just $4 billion?!

    The revenue has to end up in someone's pockets, surely you should be in favour of a bit more of it going to the likes of Wayne Rooney and Marcus Rashford instead?

    Also, I've commented on this here in the past, but those who point to the salaries of football's few highest earners as an example of its supposed failings are succumbing to survivorship bias. There are only about 500 footballers in the PL, that's an absolutely tiny amount relative to the number of people who play football regularly in the UK and worldwide, and even then only a few of those will be on such huge wages for an extended period of time. Also, the few people at the top of most professions will be earning huge sums, but not all will be as visible as footballers.
  32. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    You’re conflating normal business with football, they aren’t really comparable. Every premier league player will comfortably be a millionaire, yes they’re not all earning £84m per contract like KDB, but they’re all earning well and a salary cap wouldn’t change that fact. Most clubs wage bill is at least 80% of turnover, that’s where all the money goes, player wages. So whatever a club earn the vast majority go to the players.

    I think you’re falling into the trap of the working class family who earn minimum wage, but vote Tory because they’re aspirational. You can strike a happy medium here with football, it doesn’t have to be so binary that it’s either the owners getting filthy rich or the players, it will still continue to be both, but far more sustainable. Burnley’s reserve keeper will still get to drive a Lamborghini and Malcolm glazer will still get rich.
  33. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    And you're opposed to that are you?

    You're not answering the question.

    A PL football club will bring in £x amound of revenue. That revenue has to go somewhere.

    Say 80% of that currently goes to making the players rich.

    Say if a salary cap brings that down to 60%, that extra 20% will likely instead just go to making the owners more rich.

    Is that really what you're in favour of? Is that really "more sustainable"?
  34. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Yes, if it makes the product better for me the fan the yes. If it makes Watford more stable and less at risk of going bust then yes I’m in favour of it, and ultimately it would.

    I don’t see what is actually wrong with owners making a profit, why are you against that? Do you have an issue with other business owners making a profit?

    If it makes football more sustainable where is the issue?
  35. 99mph

    99mph 4th Prediction league 2011/12

    I'm not quite sure what you mean by your last point?

    If these rules were in place this season, Liverpool could finish 7th and get given a CL slot. Whereas West Ham in 5th would get Europa League. It seems unfair that Liverpool are rewarded despite having a relatively poor season.

    All those discussions about whether players would sign for Liverpool because of lack of CL next season would go out of the window as Liverpool would be cushioned by a slot if they failed to qualify. Participating in the CL would maintain their coefficient for the next season should they fail to make CL again.

    The club coefficients are based off the last 5 years and are currently
    1. BAYERN
    2. R MADRID
    4. MAN CITY
    5. JUVE
    7. PSG
    8. MAN UTD
    9. SEVILLA
    11. ARSENAL
    12. DORTMUND
    13. CHELSEA
    15. PORTO
    I don't know if the rule still applies about max number of teams from one country, but there are 6 English clubs here which means that two would always not qualify for CL normally, but these new rules would mean that they would.

    It just seems like a way for UEFA and these clubs to guarantee top team involvement in the CL even if they have a bad season. You'd have to implode (Arsenal) and not even qualify for the Europa Conference qualifying round in order to be affected.

    The whole objection of the ESL was that it was not based on merit, but money. This seems like the same thing but on a small scale
    The Voice of Reason likes this.

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