I think it's probably both. It is a major conundrum with the Watford squad. And they've been doing it for years. You could say the defenders make excuses for themselves by accusing the lack of running off the ball - and vice versa. Surely, you'd think, it could be solved by decent coaching; but multiple coaches have either not tried or they've been incapable of changing it. I imagine a half-decent coach would, GIVEN TIME and APPROPRIATE BACKING, break play down into short scenarios and instruct (command) the players to carry out specific plays in each situation. Make it granular, simple and clear. There are other possibilities, however; maybe many of the players are actually stupid. Even just today I watched them attempt things that were clearly wrong (and I start angrily screaming at the screen). Not marking the Luton man wide of the far post at corners, for instance. Alternatively, maybe a lot of the players that have been touted as technically above average for the Division have severe technical limitations in some parts of their play - they are incomplete players. Examples might be Choudhury - a terrific tackler but a poor passer, or Pedro - (I know, I'm a heretic) - a marvellous dribbler, but lousy finisher and passer.
I wonder: Does that ploy have any credence any more? Everybody knows what's happening, including the well drilled defenders in front of you. And, of course it is supposed to be carried out competently, with quick, accurate and probing passes. Which rules out Watford's attempts, doesn't it?
The South Korean team played much like that during the 2002 World Cup -lots of patient passing from the back. It may have been slow and not very exciting to watch but it enabled them to beat Italy from a goal down and get as far as the semis. But the Championship is quite different from international football and sadly I see this style of play as more indicative of a group of at best technically OK players who’ve had some experience in the top leagues and seemingly don’t have the desire to mix it up and be more direct when necessary rather than attempt to play a tactical and possession-based game that is supposedly more cultured than that of the opposition. As others have already said, we need to build a squad of hungry, mostly Championship (lower if necessary) savvy players - although it’s three divisions down, for me one parallel is what Darrell Clarke did at Bristol Rovers some years back, combining his own non-league experience with that of the players he recruited, thus taking them back up to the Football League at the first attempt, from a division where so many ex-League clubs struggle (the Scum included).
Smashed by Mr Hell and Highwater at Luton essentially eliminating us from the play offs. A new low for the Pozzos
We're all venting here, and some good points/questions.... It really seems that we've had several years of hitting August with the club having clear levels of achievement that are expected and will happen. No feeling of "hopes" just total expectation and needs based on club spending and funding for player trading and debt. OK if you're a top 8 club in the Prem, but we're not that, and thinking about it that season we were sitting in (6th?) for several weeks must have sent GP to never never land, and we basically were never the same team ever again.!! No manager will get us going as things stand.. NONE.
Thanks for the invite, but if I did that, what on earth would that have to do with, or how would that give me insight into Edwards pre-season training for Watford back in July 2022, in April 2023? Two mangers, a winter break, and 28 games later, after Edwards has taken Luton from two points ahead of Watford when he was sacked by us… to 12 points ahead of us? What, precisely are you hoping for me to see play out? Kienan Davis still gassed out 60 minutes into a game, 9 months after the manger supposedly to blame for it (according to some random people you made up) has left?
I've been out for quite a while because I've been overwhelmed with work and some things in my private life as well. However I've been watching every game like always and scrolled threads on here every once in a while. This performance was embarassing, but not surprising. Could write a lot of things about it but won't, what I will write is that, for the first time I fully believe what many were saying for years that the problem isn't in the manager it is in the players, and I don't mean their quality but their mentality. A lot of them seem mentally weak and/or too self centered and selfish. No coach can fix that. I admit I was wrong when I put quite a lot of blame for our poor start on Edwards. He's by all means doing a good job at Luton. Both Bilic and Wilder are proven at this level and even at the level above and they can't do anything either. Sure, all three of them could have done some things better, but there are bigger problems in the playing staff in my opinion.
Let's get the new head coach in before we start signing players. It would be nice to have head coach and players in alignment.
October 18th, 2025, in League One match, Watford were left reeling after a lethargic performance saw them fall 1-0 to Lincoln City in a tightly contested game. Despite dominating possession for much of the match, Watford were unable to break through a resolute Lincoln defence and were ultimately punished for their lack of cutting edge in front of goal. The breakthrough came in the 67th minute, when a well-placed cross was met by the head of the Lincoln striker, who nodded the ball past the Watford goalkeeper, to give the visitors a crucial lead. Watford pushed forward in search of an equalizer, but were unable to find a way past a determined Lincoln defence, who held on for a hard-fought victory. After the game, Watford's 4th manager of the season, Alan Pardew, expressed his disappointment with his team's performance and attributed the defeat to their lethargic display: "It's a tough one to take. We knew Lincoln would be a tough team to break down, but I thought we were too slow and too lethargic in our build-up play. We lacked that killer instinct in front of goal and ultimately paid the price. We need to be more clinical if we want to compete at this level." When asked about the team's struggles, Pardew pointed to the impact of former manager Rob Edwards: "Rob Edwards' disastrous pre-season in July 2022 had a lasting impact on this team. We've been playing catch-up ever since, and it's been a real struggle to get the players firing on all cylinders. But we're working hard to turn things around, and I'm confident that we'll start to see some positive results soon."
And give him a bit longer to set the team up or players who fit his way of playing ? I mean will never happen of course ..
When you have as many managers as we've had (I think we've now had more under the Pozzos than West Ham in their entire history, not even including caretakers), it's always likely to see a few of them dotted around the country!
It would be interesting to hear from anyone who went to the game about their experience getting there and back. Don’t bother talking about the actual match, though.
Was nowhere near as bad as many had anticipated. The police were everywhere. We had a nice reception from the 100 or so Luton fans dotted about as we made our way towards the M1 but other than that nothing happened. We were back on the motorway fairly quickly and back to the Vic in no time. The journey up we were held for about 25 minutes as the Old Bill had to ensure a clear route off the motorway but again no issues really I didn’t get on one personally but I thought it was rather embarrassing that many had to get on the Harry Potter coaches- I think that sums up the entire day.
Rotten An Italian saying goes "To trust is good, not to trust is better" Well, we don't trust the owner And the coaches and players don't either No-one's going to bust a gut Just pick up our money and try to avoid the worst of the blame Hence Millwall & co can do the double over us With new vibes Many of the players are good enough For a promotion push Though God knows how we get there from here Too many untrusted untrustables on big money And by the way, screw Hive Live
Like Gino, I am just the custodian of the thread. Perhaps you can be Scott Duxbury as you enjoy a hammer and were forced out by the Whitehouse Oval Orifice owning Porno Dwarves.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a team not want to be out on the pitch as much as us today.also too much moaning and bickering within the team. We are a totally broken outfit,most of them want out asap.can I blame them the way the club acts and is run?to a point no but they are still professionals with pride surely. Feel sorry for the fans that went and had to put up with that at that dump of all places. It’s all so very depressing being a hornet at the moment. Just gutted
“The performances of both Sarr and Pedro were “disappointing”. Concern remains that Pedro’s head has been turned after the club turned down a £7m bid from Ipswich and have said they won’t accept anything less than £35m, all upfront.”
I'm not being funny but I've seen us play a lot worse than that. We had nothing up front but the defence were OK for most of it, hardly a dominant performance from Luton either way. Even though our players don't care the skill level of them was above and beyond Luton.
Surprisingly well organised. No problems at all. Got chatting with Ryan Porteus's dad, who was sitting behind me. Nice chap
I wouldn't if I were you! They 'll be like the crew of ex cons and tea leaves who Arthur employed to 'landscape ' a rockery for a woman in a Minder episode. The woman was also Penny's mother in Just Good Friends,Mrs Warrinder? One for you there Bunny as it's Easter Tide. Lord I'm in a state of gloom!
Did he say his son had walked into a dressing room full of wimps and shirkers and wanted to go back to Hibs?
Funny seeing our fans rip in to Jao Pedro and Saar for slinking off down the tunnel immediately after the final whistle then screaming 'f*** off' at the ones that did come over to acknowledge the supporters at the end of the game!
We have better players than Luton. There’s no doubting that, but that quality means nothing if the effort and desire is not there. I thought Luton were below par. They actually looked nervous as it was a big game for them. But we didn’t battle, we can’t battle as we don’t have that type of player. You’re killed in this league if you don’t compete physically. The only other way to play if you’re not physical is to move the ball quickly, which we should be able to do, but we also fail miserably in that. We’ve given the ball away cheaply all season. Our players can’t even make simple passes successfully. They are not brave on the ball and they don’t make the runs off the ball. It’s a huge problem, where we’ve got a collection of individuals but the majority do not have the characteristics to be successful footballers. It just does not knit together.
4 years now of incredibly disappointing football. Feels like I've seen a massively below average amount of goals and wins in that time compared to any other time since I started going to games back in the early 90's. We've definitely been in worse positions, but there is zero joy in supporting the club anymore.
TBF we did get promoted 2 years ago but that was without fans able to go to games which maybe meant people didn’t have gave that connection or enjoyment. Guess in terms of expectations and under performance definitely the last 2 years have been most disappointing .
I don’t mean to get at you personally, but this sort of comment really annoys me. Of course we’ve all seen Watford play a lot ‘worse’ in the sense of misplaced passes, missed chances etc., and it’s true that L*t*n weren’t that dominant, but that’s not the point is it? There was no discernible pattern of play from Watford and virtually zero goal threat. Don’t be fooled by the cursed possession stats - as ever all our possession took place in our own half and broke down shortly after we crossed the halfway line. It’s easy to look technically good when the pressure is off. Through poor recruitment we just have the wrong type of players, particularly for the Championship. Is it any wonder Davis is constantly isolated (and therefore hangs onto the ball too long) when our midfielders, for different reasons, all want to play from deep positions and don’t get forward to support him? I thought L*t*n actually changed their attitude in the second half, from time-wasting in order to hang on to the 1-0 score to going for a second goal because they realised Watford were never going to score if they played all weekend.
I think what we need is a manager who they can laugh and joke with. Gracia and Xisco were very "laid back" sort of people, who had a smile and patted players on the back, gave them hugs of encouragement. It's no excuse for poor performances at all, as any professional player should be able to work under any manager and adapt to the ways of their coaching. It just boggles the mind that under Xisco and Gracia we have played some of our best football (even when Xisco was sacked we had 7pts from 7 games). Am I suggesting we need Ronald McDonald in charge to motivate them? Perhaps Wilder should come into Training tomorrow dressed as a clown? No, but it seems they only react to a manager on their own level. which is looking at this current squad, is juvenile.
Wasn't Edwards that guy? I think the real reason why Xisco succeeded and Ivic didn't wasn't really anything to do with personalities, but simply because Xisco had probably the best squad in the league to pick from (and yet we still didn't really put in many convincing performances), whereas Ivic had a ****ton of injuries. Gracia had us playing above ourselves, but that proved to be a short-term aberration and we soon enough reverted to something resembling our mean
Very good counter arguement. I guess it boils down to the club core is rotten, the player's don't care and the Owner is stuck in his ways.
