Of course. These are the corners we've faced that have gone to the back of the 6-yard area from each side. Red means we were unsuccessful in winning the first contact - that is a staggering amount of losses in that back zone. We also have one of the worst defensive records in the league from corners - both in terms of xG and also goals
Don’t see the relevance, sorry. Feel free to join the dots and I’ll reply. I simply don’t think Whippendell’s a bullcrap merchant. Now whether the people he spoke to are I’ve no idea. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion but I just thought it was a bit weird your go to thing was to accuse him of making it up. There’s a few people on here who hear things and post about them, and it’s easy over time to spot the ones who seem more legit. But they’ll probably stop posting if people accuse them of making things up, which makes the forum poorer for everyone.
We have some really stupid fans. I mean many have turned but the fact some of these types exist is amazing.
Beginning to think Baz's worst crime as Watford owner wasn't him ******* up himself, but being the reference point for any Gino apostles
Wow, wonder how much stems from Bachmann. Because we have centre-backs willing to put their head on it.
It’s pretty stupid to quote the good things they have done as a way to somehow make the current ****show acceptable and beyond reproach. It’s also stupid to ignore that they have done plenty of good things in the past. The issue is that the last 4 years or so have been 95% disaster. I had little to do Saturday morning so watched the highlights of the FA cup semi final and the 1-5 win at Cardiff. Wow we had such a good side just 4 years ago. Wow Deulofeu was such a brilliant player. Wow we have fallen so so far from those days.
The reason I mention Ivic is that round the time he was sacked stories emerged (as they always tend to when we are going to sack a manager) that the players didn’t like his strict approach, this quote in particular stands out: It took less than a month for stories to emerge of unrest within the dressing room, with Ivic's authoritative methods apparently running the players ragged in every training session. https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sport/18958888.go-wrong-watford-vladimir-ivic/ So I don’t think it’s very likely we didn’t have a strong pre-season under Ivic, but the players didn’t like it and that was cited as one of the reasons he was sacked. Then obviously Munoz came in who doesn’t really strike me as someone who would “run the players ragged” in training sessions and we performed a lot better. Ivic’s strict approach and the players not liking it was used as a reason for his sacking, where was that with Edwards? There was no hint of him being too soft and not training the players hard enough from any quarter at the club around the time of his sacking, the only source is the crackpot theory. Then there is this: https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2015/aug/04/pozzo-family-fuelled-watford-premier-league-dreams Obviously it’s a few years old, but there is nothing to suggest their approach has changed and training sessions are no longer monitored by the club: All of their players wear GPS devices in training and it was by analysing and comparing this data last year that Pozzo noticed the training sessions he was witnessing in Hertfordshire were significantly less intense than those taking place simultaneously in Friuli and Andalucía. Watford’s then manager, Beppe Sannino, had gone within weeks So how realistic do we think it is that the above approach has been disbanded, Edwards a football coach (not a fitness coach) famed for his strong pressing game at FGR, would come into Watford and personally oversee a poor pre-season fitness regime, that wouldn’t have A: been picked up by the club as it has in the past, and B: Be used as an excuse for firing him? As for WW’s ‘insight’ I really don’t care if they would be scared off from posting such insights again. Simply saying you’ve heard from a few sources Edwards didn’t train the players hard enough is hardly insight. Heard from who? Employees at the club, players? At least back it up with a credible source, you don’t have to name them, but obviously it sounds incredibly dodgy if you have an opinion and back it up with “I’ve heard from a few sources” as evidence of that opinion. I’ve seen evidence with my own eyes on Saturday that he trains the players plenty hard enough, so you’re going to have to come up with better insight to counter what we all saw play out. Finally, I thought it might be useful to ask Luton fans what they think and I’d say their responses are pretty damning for the theory that our problems are down to Edwards pre-season, I’m afraid it’s an extremely harsh dose of reality for anyone who remotely thinks Edwards was either out of his depth or at all to blame for any of our issues: https://members.boardhost.com/lutonoutlaws/thread/1680514907.html I appreciate you wanted him sacked and will look for any excuse to be able to maintain that it was the correct call, but there really just is no logic to this particular theory, that so far has no evidence behind it.
It seemed to me Ivic was approaching games as if we were in the EPL, even after the chaotic situation he inherited had sorted itself out a bit. He didn’t seem willing to go for the win even in games against the poorer sides. I’m confident he would have got us in the playoffs, but not so sure about automatic. Munoz was a massive punt that paid off, so difficult to criticise a successful decision. The muddled thinking at the start of last season was a real ****-up by the hierarchy and it directly led to 2 more even more ludicrous appointments. The concept of a ‘reset’ at the start of this season was one I looked forward to with (foolish) hope, but I’m not sure they did enough background to ensure they appointed the right coach to achieve the reset within the obvious restrictions of seemingly having to go up. Some posters on here (Burnsy possibly?) cast doubt on Edwards being the right choice as soon as he was appointed. Of course, the fact that promotion was so essential made the job extremely hard for anyone to achieve, and that is 100% down to the appalling decision making over the last 4 seasons.
Wasn’t there some major changes in the medical dept befor Mazzari’s season? Seems like we’ve been struggling on conditioning and recovery ever since.
Yes, as soon as you reach a level of complacency, think you've made it and are established in the "big time" you do a Stoke. Palace, Leicester, and West Ham are all now in that position.
Just about calmed down now after that horror show. I think somebody asked how it went with the coaches to the games. Very well organised, not a hint of trouble, not even a welcoming committee. Support up to 30 mins was excellent and fairly noisy by our standards and thought they were quite quiet. The football was abysmal but not going into fitness, Edwards as that has been done to death on this thread. All I will say is I thought Edwards was the wrong choice to begin with but shouldn't have been sacked The players Bachmann - Made some good saves but the kicking is atrocious. At one point passed it The hair who wasn't even looking Ngakia - Simply not good enough Porteous - Must have wondered why he signed for us but he was the one bright spot on Saturday Cathcart - A captain who doesn't captain. Never in the refs ear, never balling out other players for anything. For all his faults we need a Deeney like captain again. At fault for the first goal Hoedt - Not a left back and I know technically he wasn't a left back Saturday but he got dragged out there a lot and struggled The Hair - At least he seemed to try but in all honesty, he was bobbins Kone - Same as The Hair Louza - Had are only shot on target. Needs to demand the ball more. Did nothing Sema - Always gives 100% but needs others around him to make him effective. Had a couple of decent runs but not much. Not a wing back Pedro - I get why he's trying to do it all but really wasn't very good Davis - Very poor but had no support at all and stop lumping it to him in the air when clearly it doesn't work Subs - Ferreira looks a better play than Ngakia and seemed to try and get things moving. Asprilla like Ferreira was positive but unfortunately most of the rest of the team wasn't Sarr - Did nothing, didn't try to do anything Britt - What numpty decided to sign him? Utterly woeful, can barely run, doesn't look like a footballer. How on earth he starts over the lad from Benfica I will never understand All in all a ******* miserable day and to cap it all my son went Skiing to Italy on Saturday, leaving home at 130pm and spent 26 hours at Dover waiting for a ferry. He is just arriving in the resort now. 48 hours on a coach would be preferable to watching those ******* on Saturday though
Hmmm. There's Edwards on a pedestal again. I can get why Luton fans would want him there - no idea why ours would. I don't think your arguments are completely illogical - there's probably some truth in there. But I find it pretty bizarre of all the head coaches that have come and gone, the proto-Aidy is the one the serious anti-Ginos have all latched onto and must herald as the fallen messiah to whom no blame can be attributed. Is it the Luton angle that's sending you all a bit glitchy? I don't blame Edwards for the way our whole season has gone but it's right he shares part of the blame for it. I think it's pretty crackpot to suggest otherwise and just let him off the hook, as if he was a helpless simpleton who didn't get paid a lot of money to take on issues and achieve targets that were hardly hidden. The Outlaws focus group idea is genius by the way. We should use them to resolve all forum debates going forward.
I've started having flashbacks to Saturday. Must be some form of PTSD. Re Sarr, I've just remembered one particularly pitiful attempt at winning a header that was so feeble and half hearted it actually made me laugh out loud
On current form, we are 19th. Only QPR are below us. Strangely this downturn in performances coincides with the penny pinching £300 withholding canteen money. I know how precious players are, and to me, it correlates with the downturn in form. Why Pozzo would do such a stunt at this key moment in the season, is unfathomable, but it does explain a lot why the players are appearing to have downed tools.
I'm watching two guys I've never heard of in the first round of the 250 event in Estoril. Battling away on the dirt. Trying their hearts out for a couple of grand at most and a few more ranking points. Maximum effort is the minimum requirement and apart from Cuddly, Hamster and Porterhouse Blue I have hardly seen it all season. Bilic and now Wilder have referred to it. Why isn't it happening can someone ask Pozzo or his stooge please?
Ramridge Raider??!! I think you need a holiday, Ramridge, if you've started valuing the opinions of those nuckle draggers. Take the afternoon off
I was half joking when saying there was Luton fans on this board, but the mask has fully slipped now. They live among us
I think you’re somewhat missing the point, Edwards was the supposed start of a new dawn and change of direction for the club, and he would be backed “come hell or high water”. It’s not so much about Edwards, more the fact that we abandoned all that after just 10 games. Edwards was probably never the right manager because it was all lies, the recruitment and desperation for promotion due to our dire financial position meant they would never had the nerve to see things through, but if they did I genuinely think given time Edwards would’ve been a success. He’s taken Luton from 11th to 4th under Jones, he’s improved and they’re better than us, that is factual information right now. With a better focus on recruiting the right players for him, and players with the right attitude then why on earth could he not have us in a better position than Luton are now given time? But out toxic club and setup would never allow for that, Edwards is a great coach and has so far prooven that at every club that doesn’t have a toxic setup, trying to suggest otherwise is laughable. I think blaming Edwards for anything, least of all our pre-season, when with each day that passes more and more evidence emerges to make that a more and more laughable view just to try and maintain a specific view is the only crackpot thing around here. It shows a far greater strength character to admit you’re wrong about something and that you’ve changed your mind, than solemnly stick to a view that looks more bonkers with every day.
What ‘evidence’ do you have to prove that the squad was fit enough after the pre-season? The evidence of my own eyes suggested our squad seemed sluggish in comparison to the physical shifts put in by our opponents. In almost every game, we started too slowly and despite that looked knackered after about 70 minutes; that is why many have formed the view we were under-prepared. It doesn’t mean everything that’s gone wrong is totally Edwards’ fault, but it was a very poor foundation to try to build on. Why did I reach the conclusion Edwards was not going to work out for us? 1. The squad performed as if they were physically struggling to compete. 2. The hoped-for pressing, dynamic style I assumed he was brought in to implement never once looked like materialising; presumably linked to point 1. 3. His obstinate determination to play ‘his’ system even when it was patently obvious it could never maximise the skill set of the players he had. Kamara at RWB on various occasions was plain stupid. I felt for him when Femenia went and he got given Gaspar instead, but to continue setting us up as if we had anything approaching acceptable WBs was pure idiocy. Now, had the circumstances been ‘we will use the 2 years of parachute payments to get promoted in 2 years’ I think it would have been worth the risk of keeping him on. That was clearly never the case & I think we all knew that in advance. Even ‘hell & high water’ Fuxbury made that clear by implication when he said RE was here to ‘win the league’ rather than just get promotion. It was not Edwards’ fault that the club needed (not just wanted) promotion this year so he had to hit the ground running; but it was his fault that parts of his performance saw him hit the buffers instead. This is no defence of the hierarchy; it is an explanation of why some people are surprised at how RE seems to be being held up as ‘the one that got away.’ Just because Pozzo sacked him doesn’t mean he had done well.
I think we can probably add thick to the list based on the couple on this thread that can’t work out how to use the Luton forum. I know it looks like a chimp designed it, but I reckon a chimp could still work out I wrote the thread.
Again though, you’re missing the point entirely. It has nothing to do with the one that got away, it’s to do with blaming a clearly talented coach for our issues now, when all evidence suggests that is totally wrong. I’ve given you evidence of how the club operates when it comes to fitness, but it’s not just Watford. At our level of football we have strength, conditioning and fitness coaches, the head coach is in charge of tactics, we have whole teams that are in charge of getting the players fit, that isn’t the head coaches job at a football club at this level, and Gino monitors it anyway. I’ve also given you evidence of Luton fans experience of Edwards, they have gone up a level compared to Jones and are in fact fitter than ever, the level of intensity of their training sessions has gone up a level also. We all saw it play out on Saturday anyway, as if we needed any further evidence. Sometimes if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s a duck. We have created a toxic culture where the players don’t care because they know the voice in charge will change before long. We recruit appallingly, with our only concern being try and flip the players for profit, there is no consideration for their mentality, or how they will fit into a system of any given manager. That is why we were sluggish at the start of the season, that is why we still are, and have been ever since, that is why we are mid table and why we’ve roughly won, drawn and lost the same amount of games. It’s about motivation and mindset, fitness doesn’t come into with our squad and clubs issues. To then say if you aren’t fit in July you can’t gain fitness later on, that the club would just allow a squad worth £70m to just be unfit and remain unfit indefinitely must surely make you think how silly it all sounds? But of course it’s all just more mental gymnastics to try and support the bizarre original theory. It really is that simple and obvious to pretty much everyone at this stage, It has nothing to do with Rob Edwards pre-season, and there is really no need to mentally tie yourself in such knots, it’s really not that complicated.
