Israel v Hamas

Well, most sources believe that over 100,000 people have been killed in Syria. UNICEF say that government forces are currently holding and torturing 420 children and the UN believes that 6500 had been killed up to June 2013, and an Oxford research group say this had increased up to nearly 12,000 by November. Clearly Assad is using chemical weapons. At least 2,000 Palestinians have been killed. There is little doubt that the vast majority of those killed are from the anti Assad side. Are they all lying?

 

Not what I'm saying. I'm so bored of people's double standards.

If people disagree or have a different viewpoint on what I believe is the situation then that's fine. But people are marching through cities and up in arms about what they view as, in your words, "Israeli attrocities" but not one march, not one protest, very limited television coverage of other worse "attrocities" going on in the world.

 

Yeah nornironhorn, how dare you only discuss the Gaza situation in a 'Israel v Hamas' thread?! Definitely antisemitic! You make me sick. Boo!

Although, by this logic I think Halfwayline must also be antisemitic for only mentioning Syria and Libya, but forgetting Northern Iraq, Sudan, Tunisia (which is concerned about spillover from Libya and has closed its borders), Egypt, Somalia or any other country which has humanitarian crises or conflicts in.

 

I agree, the double standards are annoying, but what is happening in Gaza has little to do with Syria. Whoever is right or wrong in Gaza cannot be excused in any way by the fact that there is worse happening elsewhere or in the past, in my opinion. That is an argument/justification that I think is overused.

 

What I'd like to know is when America is going to get given back to the Native Americans, the UK is going to get given back to the Celts, and we're going to get around to resurrecting the Byzantines, the Aztecs, the Incas and the Akkadian Empire.

 

I hate threads that start with discuss. Its not f**king Newsnight. And what is 'our' obsession with all things Muslim/Christian ? Its all you ever hear about on the news, which isnt really news anymore, its propaganda. Britain has become Americas puppet, its little lapdog......and Goldman Sachs are Jews who run America and who consequently have a big say in World banking. Oil has become the new gold and Israel gives the West a foothold in an area where oil is in abundance, well 3.5 billion barrels of it, on the West Bank, to be precise. Money is at the heart of all this, religion is just a mask, as per usual. Praying doesn't put food on the table or a massive yacht in your own private harbour. And poor ol little Britain is hanging on the coat tails of the USA like a little puppy dog. Its time we sorted our own problems out first and left the rest of the world to it.

 

I dont think anything you say is actually anti-Semitic, but your distortion of the truth may give that impression. You ignore, for example, the fact that Hebrews have lived in that region for 1000's of years.

 

You can't suggest we leave the rest of the world's problems to them in the same breath as saying that we are directly involved in them...

I had a lengthy discussion about Israel/Palestine on here a few years back and I don't want to have it again. Suffice to say that I don't support Israel.

 

It surely is pretty much a fact that just about every region in the world has been fought over many times since the start of the humankind. The native Americans (if you mean the Indians fought tribe v tribe. How far back do you want to go?

As I said in my earlier post, we cannot change the past, and going on about it wont help us sort out the future. Let it be.

 

What bugs me is that three kids were murdered by an individual or a very small group of fanatics and Israel see fit to react with advanced weapons against a whole nation, killing more or less indiscriminately as they go. They then cry foul when Hammas react with a few inaccurate short range missiles which barely have a hope of hitting anything except desert and it's not as if it couldn't have been expected or avoided!

It's a very short-sighted strategy which will only create more and bigger enemies. One day they are likely to find themselves in more trouble than they can handle.

 

Then don't say stuff like:

Where a defunct civilisation/empire used to exist two millennia ago is completely irrelevant in the modern world, and certainly can't be used to justify re-creating it.

 

Although I don't completely agree with Spud's conspiracy theories I think it is no coincidence that the USA unconditionally backs Israel when a large proportion of congress is Jewish or part-Jewish.

 

When the land was split in 1948, the Israelis got the land considered to be the desert whilst the arabs got the majority of the land with resources, such as the majoirty of the fertile River Jordan valley. The oil was only discovered in the 1980's and was thought to be uneconomical until new surveys in 2004.

 

But that's my whole point......the rest of the world. What is happening in the rest of world, in say Borneo........Venezuela..........New Zealand.......Iceland......the worlds a bigger place than USA propagandist shyte involving Muslims and Christians.

 

I think the USA knew full well that if the arabs are being given land which has large known quantities of resources, the land the Israelis get is statistically highly likely to be the same. It doesn't take a geologist to know that.

 

It isn't "unconditional" in my view, but is certainly a major factor, I agree.

 

And you believe that shyte ? Jus like.....the Falklands war was all about sovereignty.......and then it comes to light vast oil reserves have been found inside the exclusion zone...do me a favour. Money is at the heart and root of it, always has been and always will be. And we're expected to go along with it. Bo**cks to em.

 

I can guarantee you it isn't a coincidence. The Jewish lobby over here is very powerful and injects a lot of money into American politics (primarily the Republican party).

Special interests in the US dictate a significant amount of policy, it's just the way their system works.

 

The arabs got three quarters of the fertile Jordan river basin. You are right most people will know that is where the majority of the water is!

 

I don't think the Americans are interested in the water.

 

I wasn't "going along" with anything, I was just telling you the facts. If you have evidence to the contary, pray tell us.

But, obviously, the reason every tribe, ethnic group, race, population, etc values land as an extremely important commodity is that will hopefully provide a valuable yield of some sort. But it isn't just the USA.

 

Ok, I have been beaten into submission. I give in.

 

Pray tell us.......condescending and patronising. Nice.

 

Anyway , back to the original question of Israel and Hamas

Could anybody please help me understand why Hamas use the cement and money they receive to build terror tunnels when that money could be used for building infrastructure for the people living in Gaza

 

Because that is the reality of war. Why are the Israelis spending money on missiles when they could be building hospitals for the Israeli people?

 

It's a sad reality. The Israelis heavily invest in infrastructure as well as defence

The reality is that, if Israel did not invest in weapons then they would be annihilated. The same could not be said for Hamas

 

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/07/140721-gaza-strip-tunnels-israel-hamas-palestinians/

its quite straight forward really.

"After Israel introduced the blockade, smuggling became Gaza's alternative. Through the tunnels under Rafah came everything from building materials and food to medicine and clothing, from fuel and computers to livestock and cars. Hamas smuggled in weapons. New tunnels were dug by the day—by the hour, it seemed—and new fortunes minted. Families sold their possessions to buy in. Some 15,000 people worked in and around the tunnels at their peak, and they provided ancillary work for tens of thousands more, from engineers and truck drivers to shopkeepers. Today Gaza's underground economy accounts for two-thirds of consumer goods, and the tunnels are so common that Rafah features them in official brochures."

 

Blindly launching missiles in retribution for 3 kids lives certainly is not defence.

 

The blockade was quite simply introduced to stop the flow of suicide bombers intent on maiming israeli individuals, both Jew and Arab

Can't comment on the Egyptian blockade

 

And I suppose this is the crux of the problem. I view Hamas as a terrorist organisation that needs to be defeated at any cost

If they are viewed in any other way then the current operation will not be viewed as defence

 

the question was why are they building tunnels instead of hospitals e.t.c i think that was an adequate response, no?

 

actually, your question was on why they use the cement they receive to build it. for that comment alone, i really hope you read the article.

 

Thanks for the article. My understanding was that Israel, and presumably Egypt, allowed food/medicine etc into Gaza and this is monitored by a number of health organisations.

There are lots of rumours that the tunnels were about to be used for a massive terror strike against Israel. I hasten to say, they are just unsubstantiated rumours

Maybe this is fantasy but:

If Hamas did not have a mandate to destroy Israel then there would be no need for a blockade
If there was no blockade and no mandate then would there be a need to smuggle weapons
If there is free trade and no need to smuggle weapons then maybe the Palestinian people could reattribute monies to be invested in schools, hospitals, housing etc
The People of Gaza would have no need for a terror government

Is this too simplistic?

 

Which is exactly why me and half the world don't buy it!

Bin Laden's mob were Saudi's but not one US bomb dropped there, it would have been futile but 'your lot' know better. It makes me sick!

 

maybe it is simplistic, maybe its not. google couldn't provide me with an easy answer for that particular question