Israel v Hamas

That's a made up place for a cartoon m8, like Rio.

Next you'll be sending them to the Island of Naboombu or Zamunda.

 

As a backpacker I did a bit of casual work in Eilat and built a shack for an Israeli that literally parked himself on a deckchair in a shady spot and watched me the whole time just to make sure he got his money's worth. Including watch me struggle with a couple of 8'x4' sheets of heavy marine ply but he never lifted a finger. All I got to drink was a glass of tap water.

I think I might now be a little pro-Palestine, Israeli's are K*ntz!

 

If Hamas laid down their arms then there would be peace
If Israel laid down their arms they would be annihilated

Why do Hamas not use the money, cement and machinery they receive to build an infrastructure for the people they represent instead of building terror tunnels

 

On a seperate note - not my words but found it very interesting.

Ok folks, there is obviously a lot of confusion and anger about the situation in Gaza right now. People are wondering "why the news is full of pictures of dead kids?" "what the **** is going on?" I am going to attempt to fill in some gaps with a brief discription of events that lead to this absurd situation.

Hamas; Islamic militant group controlling the Gaza strip since 2007 when they "forcibly" ...removed their more moderate rivals Fatah (who run the west bank as the Palistinian Authority or PA)

Up until fairly recently, Hamas received their funding from three main sounces;

1) Syria. President Assad supported Hamas financially as well as providing weapons.
2) Iran. A long term supporter of the anti-zionist cause.
3) Egypt. From fellow lunatics the Muslim Brotherhood, and also taxing smuggled goods through tunnels into Gaza from Egypt.

Ok thats the background on Hamas, well done for reading this far, treat yourself to a biscuit.

Event 1. Civil war in Syria. The horrendous civil war forces President Assad to divert funding meant for killing Jews, to killing his own people instead.
Remember the chemical attacks around this time last year? It seemed only a matter of time before Assad would be toppled and the rebels would take over.
HAMAS DECIDED TO BACK THE REBEL FORCES. This is critial to the story.
Assad has since made a comeback guaranteing that Hamas would get no help from Syria for the time being.

Event 2. President Ahmadinejad (Iran's INSANE president until summer 2013) is replaced by the more moderate President Rouhani. Iran begins to try to thaw relations with the west and also condems Hamas' support for the rebels in neighbouring Syria. These factors as well as other reforms in Iran mean Hamas lose another important sponser.

With me so far? you're doing great.

Event 3. Millitary coup in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhood are crushed, outlawed, rounded up and sentenced to death by the new iron fisted President Sisi.
President Sisi sets about filling in all the tunnels from Egypt into Gaza, cutting off Hamas' final major supply route.

Now Hamas are isolated, skint and increasingly desperate. Ordinary Gazans become frustrated at their leadership which fails to pay wages, or achieve anything.
Hamas need to act. They need to;
Firstly; unify Gaza behind them, and improve their standing in the West Bank.
Secondly and most importanly, they need to re-secure some foreign "investors"

Hamas sign a unity deal with arch rivals Fatah royally ******* off the Israelis who respond by sanctioning the building of new (Illegal) housing in the west bank.

Things are hotting up a bit.

Hamas agents in the west bank KIDNAP three Israeli youths. Hamas know this will provoke the Israelis into a strong response.

True to form Israeli forces start smashing down doors, busting heads and generally ******* off the Palastinians in the West Bank looking for the three boys.

The children were long dead of course, but the Hamas ploy had worked.

Hamas in Gaza began firing an alarming number of rockets at Israeli cities in response to the heavy handed manhunt.

Hamas started to poke the bear.

The bear bit.

Israel began to bombard rocket sites in Gaza expecting the usual ceasefire to be announced in a few days. Its a pretty regular cycle of nonsense, look it up.

Rocket fire didnt stop, and indeed hasnt stopped since.
All ceasefire offeres were rejected by the well dug in Hamas leadership.

Eventually the decision was made by the bullheaded Mr Netinyahu (Israels PM) to put "boots on the ground" this is, it appears, what Hamas wanted all along.

The fighting turns ugly; the IDF begin a land invasion of Gaza to try to stop the rocket fire. Civilians are blown up at an alarming rate, and Hamas fighers manage to kill dozens of soilders from their well prepared positions.

The IDF discover an ASTONISHING network of cross border tunnels that would make the Veit Kong green with envy. Destroying tunnels becomes a key objective of the IDF.

Meanwhile hundreds of innocent children die in the chaos.

Hamas now enjoys almost unilateral support within Gaza due to public outrage with Israel.

The Ayatollah of Iran publicly announces "Everyone, whoever has the means, especially in the Islamic world, they should do what they can to arm the Palestinian nation"

Apparently Hamas has achieved its key objective of re-securing foreign support Particularly in Iran)

Hamas have lost infrastructure and fighters in the conflict, but the death and destruction will provide plenty of ANGRY YOUNG MEN to re-inforce their ranks for the next inevitable war with Israel.

As an added bonus for Hamas, the world opinion of Israel drops ten notches, and nutters run rampage in Europe smashing up synagogues and Jewish businesses as some kind of revenge.

There you go guys, a simplified version of events.

Don't let anyone tell you that this is a simple issue, it's far from black and white. In fact its a 20 dimentional technicolour rainbow with a million angles.

The final tally is yet to be counted but it looks like Hamas are winning and EVERYONE ELSE lost.

Peace.

 

two wrongs do not make a right, Israel's heavy-handedness is eons away from a peace process

 

The IRA were not invited to the negotiation table until they had laid down their weapons

 

No-one on here has said otherwise, have they?

 

The IRA were not starved in their homes

 

Nope and nor should those who live in Gaza. Unfortunately the food, concrete and money that Hamas receives is not used for the purpose they are intended for.

Nobody in their right mind has got anything but sympathy for the innocent people living in Gaza. Nobody in their right mind should have anything but intense dislike for the terrorist unit Hamas that makes their lives a living hell

 

statement of fact

now do one beardygit

 

that is completely and utterly untrue. and hamas and the israeli government are negotiating as we speak too!

but i agree with your general sentiment. follow the terrible precedents from other countries and hope for the best

 

Let me rephrase - decommissioning of arms was a crucial condition of the Irish peace process. As you state, talks were ongoing

 

I used to think this old John Lennon song was just hopeless useless ravings of a rich old English celebrity. I never cared for the tune, and it made me irritated just to hear it. It's slow. Repetitive. Simplistic. And it has Yoko in it.

However, 40 years later, I get it. It was written for this very thing.
We've got nothing else to do but hope, or pray if that's your thing, that someone will just stop fighting and killing.

It's a song of hopeless hope and it's perfect for now. I listen to it every night now and somehow it makes me feel better.

I know it's stupid, but it's all I've got.

[video=youtube_share;yRhq-yO1KN8]http://youtu.be/yRhq-yO1KN8[/video]

 

Thank you I'm not pro hamas either but I do place the majority of the blame somewhere. In the current crisis Hamas are also to blame but in the bigger picture bla bla.

 

Nope, I lived in the region for 3 years so know first hand what the issues are. You are confusing Palestinians, the downtrodden race who have been let down by the Arab world and been pawns in an ongoing battle, with Hamas, the evil terrorist faction who are intent on the destruction of Israel

Gaza is not occupied
Gaza borders are controlled to stop Hamas terrorists coming into Israel to blow people up

We could, and have done before, start a whole thread on the rights of Palestinians/Israelis but this current battle is a war on terror

My view:

Destroy Hamas and every tunnel
Get the UN to marshal borders to ensure there is no repeat of 1948 or 1967
Stop the settlements
Put the money to where it's intended..building hospitals, schools, infrastructure
Put in a decent government in Gaza who do not believe in the destruction of Israel
Create a two state solution

All sounds easy on paper, impossible in practice

 

The Jews bought land perfectly legally in Palestine, they didn't steal it. Then both arabs and jews committed awful terrorist attacks on Britain and each other. There was nothing illegal about the immigration into Palestine at the time.

It's a slippery slope if you accept that the Israelis were just bussed in and don't count towards a right to self determination.

 

"you think they should lay down their arms and continue to live in poverty" - I expect Hamas to lay down their arms to create a better existence for those in Gaza

By the way, your facts are wrong. 20% of the Israeli population is Arab who have the same voting, medical, job rights as the Jews they live alongside.

 

The Jews lived in that land since the time of Moses and despite some upsets from the Assyrians and Babylonians, remained in the land for many centuries until the Romans displaced them. Prince Titus destroyed the temple in 70 AD. Then in the second century, Emperor Hadrian crushed a new Jewish rebellion. This time, many of the Jews were banished and others were made slaves of the Romans.

A small number of Jews did stay in the land and remained there right up through the twentieth century. However, the name of the land at this time was changed because Hadrian wanted to destroy Jewish identity. He renamed the land “Syria-Palestinia.” Palestinia was a Latin version of the word Philistine, an ancient enemy of the Jews who were now extinct as a people.

Hadrian was deliberately insulting the Jews.

There has never been a country called Palestine. This was a nickname for the Holy Land under the Romans. The people who today call themselves Palestinians are Arabs and they referred to themselves as Arabs for centuries until they were dubbed “Palestinians” as a publicity ploy by the terrorist and founder of the PLO, Yassir Arafat, who himself did not use the title “Palestinian” until after the year 1964.

 

Interesting thanks. I know the conflict is known as the "Arab-Israeli conflict", but in the last decade or so people seem to refer to is and the Israeli-Palestine conflict, forgetting the decades of attacks and wars by the surrounding Arab nations.

 

I dont like Greek food.

 

here was me thinking this was a conflict between the israeli army and hamas. now i know it's a shared culpability between every jew and and every muslim/arab alive today

 

It doesn't seem fair to me that Jews were displaced by the Romans
It doesn't seem fair to me that Jews bought uncultivated land in the region from Arabs and, after creating an oasis, the Arabs wanted the land back
It doesn't seem fair to me that the Arab nations have turned their back on the Arabs living in the region
It doesn't seem fair to me that Hitler was intent on wiping out the Jewish race
It doesn't seem fair to me that the food and provisions don't reach the Arabs that they are intended for
It doesn't seem fair that everybody has an opinion on Israel/Arab crying out about the humane cause, but don't March through London when Syria kills thousands, Nigerian schoolgirls are kidnapped, Christians are persecuted in Libya etc etc

 

Forgive me,but you are sounding anti semitic.
Funnily enough if you go back through history Jews and Muslims have often lived very well together. The middle east was settled,peaceful and a major contributor to modern science and civilisation. The crusades brought that to an end with rampant anti semitism and anti Islam which still has repercussions today.
Its true a lot of Jews moved to Israel before the start of ww2, are you suggesting that the nazis and russian pogroms had nothing to do with it?
I started this with 'forgive me', but to be honest your attitude makes me sick

 

Anywhere America has ever interfered with using its chubby little fingers has ended up worse off - Africa, the Middle East, South America, East Asia; all torn apart by their need to 'defend the free' (free being US business interests/free-market). Almost all conflicts are started by, or accentuated by, US intervention.

 

Don't forget Europe!
Edit: also don't you mean Central America rather than South America though? We've had our Chile here and there, but mostly like toying with Centro.

 

Oh right, and the centuries of wars and battles fought religion, politics, colonisation, natural sources, land riches and greed, before the US was even thought of, are a figment of everyone's imagination.

:doh:

 

Yup agreed. Those Apaches were right b@stards, oppressed the Sioux to near extinction.
Sitting Bull, what a c@nt!

 

You've missed the point, America are todays Romans - except **** and not societal beneficial in anyway.

 

Actually you have stated reasons that are factually incorrect. There was no Palestinians there were Arabs, who weren't displaced and there was no movement cap imposed on them. There is no genocide, no occupation in Gaza

There are innocents dying which is very sad as it is in Syria and Libya but you fail to raise a murmur about those countries

The fact that you are anti Israel from a humanitarian point of view but fail to mention worse atrocities will make some view you as anti Semitic

The fact that your facts are wrong and you have not responded to any of the people that have answered your questions makes you one sided, hence some will view you as anti Semitic

 

Saying that Israel's atrocities are not as bad as Assad's is pretty ****ing weak.