F1/ Formula E/ Motorsport Thread

Also, to add to my previous posts:

Mercedes had the opportunity to pit under the SC. They chose to hold track position rather than fall behind/risk falling behind, and gamble on the race not restarting. They knew if it did restart by not pitting they'd be at a massive disadvantage, but they rolled the dice and lost. Red Bull did the opposite, as they would have done in either case. In my opinion that nulifies Mercedes' argument, as the outcome is a result of their decision making not match fixing.

Once again Mercedes strategists got it wrong, which has been a common theme this season.

 

TBF, Mercedes. like everyone at the track and billions watching, were expecting the rule book to be followed

Masi decided to make up a new rule on the spot

 

Nobody had any idea if it would go green again, so that's not true. They gambled, they lost, they live with the consequences.

 

So if your losing a race, put on a new set of tyres and get your mate to crash. A nonsense of a sport

 

all the teams gamble, all the time, with everything, so I don't really get your point.

If Masi had followed the rules, he would have let all cars through and the race end a lap later, or let no cars through.

What I would have done, if I were Merc, was ask Botas to just stop on track, slap bang on the racing line, and make sure the race could not be restarted. Take away the option for Masi to choose to manipulate the result.

 

You often don't get my point, it's a running theme.

My point is they had the same chance as Red Bull. They chose a different strategy, the wrong strategy, and lost. That's how it goes.
Masi wanted to 'go racing', apparently the teams had also already expressed that's what they wanted... It would've restarted if Max was in front and Lewis in second with fresh tyres and Lewis would've won.

Mercedes got it wrong. That's sport. A lot of sour grapes.

 

Mercedes didn’t get it wrong. Their strategy paid off perfectly. Lewis was streets ahead. The only thing that could have prevented him from winning was a race fix.

 

Talk of the town today. I heard in the old COVID booster queue in a northern accent - ‘it’s all political this F1 like, I won’t be t’watching the t’thing ever t’again’.

Course you won’t mate, course you won’t. I vowed the same thing about my stupid football team on Friday night but it’ll last until Wednesday night.

 

I posted at the time I couldn’t work out why Mercedes didn’t bring Hamilton in, but I didn’t really clock that the gap wasn’t big enough for him to pit in and out and keep the lead. Why would they give up track position in that situation? Or rather, how many teams would? Especially when the whole world knows all Max has to do is get another of his mystery bursts of mid-corner understeer and it’d be game over for Hamilton trying to come from behind anyway.

What I do agree with is Mercedes did have some involvement in what eventually transpired was the lack of response to the VSC. That was an opportunity to make a bold move, one I called for at the time, and they opted against.

 

They didn't win, so they got it wrong.

The key factors were:
- Perez limited the gap with his excellent hold-up driving which meant Lewis could only build up an 11 second lead by the time Latifi hit the wall.
- Mercedes didn't think 11 seconds was enough to risk pitting and chose to go with track position, hoping it'd be SC to the line.
- It wasn't SC to the line, leaving Hamilton exposed.

Regardless of your opinion on Masi's choice, it wouldn't have mattered if Mercedes had a faultless strategy. If they'd been able to get Bottas up to interfere with Perez. If they'd have got Bottas to hold up Verstappen. If they'd had enough gap to pit under the SC and prevent Red Bull from gaining an advantage.

 

The root cause of the running theme isn't hard to fathom, perhaps if you stopped posting nonsense.

Masi's job was to get them racing again yes, within the rules. Not make a new rule up.

Carlos Sainz was in 3rd place, why weren't all the lapped cars between him and Max also cleared so he was also given the same chance as Max to win the race? Why only clear the cars which were stopping Max?

 

Agreed, most teams would've done what Mercedes did - it was the safe choice. But in this instance the wrong one.

Although the FIA did state on Friday that points deductions were an option, hinting at 'take-outs' resulting in a DQ and points deduction. Whether they would've, I don't know.

 

…..but Mercedes didn’t need to change their tyres. They did everything right. Hamilton made a brilliant overtake at the start of the race. He managed his tyres perfectly, as he always does, and they won the race.

Masi, for whatever reason, fixed the outcome and changed history, while snapping at Wolff “it’s called racing”.

In F1 you can do anything you like as long as you announce “it’s called racing” while you’re doing it.

 

You can only see one way, you're very closed minded so to you it's nonsense.

I actually said it was odd that Masi didn't let the other cars through (there were only 3 I think?), but you've ignored that.

But regardless, Mercedes didn't have to be in that situation. Football analogy time: if we'd had scored 2 in extra time in the play-off final against Palace, Cassetti's last minute trip wouldn't have mattered.

 

But they didn't win...?

That's part and parcel of a safety car being called - deciding whether to change tyres. They chose not to, it was the wrong choice.

 

I certainly think rather Mercedes fighting on trying to litigate this they should just push at the open door that is getting the regs changed for the future to avoid what I think all but hard core Red Bull fans would say was a deeply unsatisfactory way for the season to end.

 

I don't understand how Mercedes got their strategy wrong when it took a massive abuse of the rules to beat them?

 

Exactly. The only football analogy that fits what happened is that the goal posts were well and truly moved!

 

FOOTBALL ANALOGY KLAXXON

Injury time penalty given by Masi Oliver and it was suitably tucked away by Rude Van Verstappen.

 

Lap 53 - Latifi crashes. Verstappen pits, Hamilton stays out.
Lap 55 (on a delay) - Hamilton's race engineer said "There's 4 laps remaining when you cross the line, it may not restart" "Will he be right behind me?" "He will be, once they've sorted this all out".
Lap 55 - Latifi's car removed, no damage to the barrier.
End of Lap 56 - Lapped cars not able to overtake.
Start of Lap 57 - Some lapped cars do overtake.
Start of Lap 58 - Restart.
End of Lap 58 - Chequered flag.

I've just rewatched it and summarised the events. Things to note, Mercedes were not certain it wouldn't restart and were discussing track position with Lewis, indicating they knew it might be important. They also say he'll be right behind Lewis, indicating they expected the lapped cars to be moved.

Also, Latifi's car was removed almost 2 laps before the FIA initially announced lapped cars wouldn't overtake, 3 laps before they were released - which was clearly contradictory to every other race. The track was clear and in any other situation those cars would've been released 1 or 2 laps sooner.

The RD then changes his mind too late, meaning he's now in a no-man's-land of contradicting every rule at once.

Yes, Masi messed it up. But actually there was no need to hold off on the unlapping, his delay there is what actually caused all this mess.

 

But it was the right choice. They were streets ahead and couldn't be caught. Only a race fix changed the result. No one could factor that in. They made perfect decisions within the rules of F1. Only people who don't understand what happened can argue otherwise.

 

Aw damnit, I liked the one where you said only idiots or Red Bull fans don't understand. That one was more creative.

I've been wondering something for a while and hopefully you can help me out? Does a tin foil hat cover all sports, or do you have one per sport?

 

No need to make it personal. Just stick to the F1 conversation.

I guess you’re a Red Bull fan, so I do understand where you’re coming from.

 

You called me an idiot (as I'm not a Red Bull fan), then deleted it. I get a pop-up.

I called you a conspiracy theorist, because you're saying it's a conspiracy. Not sure how that's offensive, and certainly not compared to what you said.

But any way, sticking to the F1 conversation. So what do you think about the delay between Latifi's car being removed and the cars being allowed to unlap themselves? Why do you think they prolonged this and do you think it influenced the decision to only let 5 cars unlap? Do you think Hamilton would've faired better if it'd been potentially 2 laps if Masi had done his job properly?

 

The race was fixed. Under any other circumstance, within FIA’s own rules, Hamilton wins.

You may as well claim Vettel is the new World Champion because Masi made up a new rule to give all drivers called Vettel 360 extra points. So we’ll done Seb. New world champ.

 

Give it up man

You are trying to defend the indefensible just like Lewis Hamilton was forced to do after Massi's outrages decision

 

This whole thing will depend on whether it judged on a sports basis or a legal basis.

If it’s a sports basis, I think most would think it was wrong but it could be more damaging for the sport to overturn it - and perhaps is best used as recourse for rewriting the rules.

But if it’s a legal basis, pretty much every lawyer who has offered their opinion on this has said the FIA would get ripped to shreds in any setting that isn’t one where they get to judge the outcome themselves. There’s just too much in the rules for Mercedes to exploit.

 

I see Spa is being mentioned now as well. The only reason Max went into the final race with a 1 win advantage over Lewis was because Masi made the farcical decision to have a 2 lap procession behind the safety car to ensure half points could be awarded. I forgot that until last night. It's easy to see how that decision alone reverberated forward and meant Mercedes couldn't risk putting Lewis behind Max on track during the Latifi SC.

Surely his position is untenable in the eyes of the teams now?

 

Masi will resign.
New rule to stop teams talking directly to RD unless it's a safety concern.
Verstappen remains champion.
F1 bedwetters pretend to never to watch it again but will be back watching come March 2022.

 

Mercedes had no option to pit for soft tyres. They send Lewis in and Max simply stays on track and wins, if you see that as bad tactics you're a moron. Also the events leading up to that point (which are irrelevant) which saw Hamilton winning by 20 seconds usually see you win under 95% of circumstances. So again terrible tactics...

Regards the decision. The teams shouldnt have 2-way radio contact with the race officials. Pressure was applied by both teams to "race" and not have the result decided by penalties, rules or red flags. So Masi took the unusual decision to use a loophole in order to bypass a rule which would have meant the race ended on a procession lap. It was harsh on Hamilton and lucky for Max. You can debate if it was right or wrong all you like, probably wrong in my book but I can see the logic in trying not to have the showcase event end under a safety car when the track is clear and useable because of the way a rule is worded.

Asking for a change in result is like a VAR poor decision for a last minute penalty being overridden after the penalty has been scored, the players have gone home and its been discussed on MOTD.

 

All well and good - if Mercedes drop all action.

 

Agreed totally, the result must stand, but what happened in the last race must force things to change for the better, so hopefully good things will come out of it. The Netflix F1 docu-series has brought millions of new younger fans into the sport, (my 19yo daughter is now bonkers about F1 and she drew me back in from the cold), so now is the perfect chance to "fix" the rules that have dominated this season.

What I will admit is that the last lap had me literally on the edge of my seat shouting at the TV and despite the laughable injustice of it I've never been so involved. They did something right this season.

 

What do we call Mercedes fans who are blind to anything else? MOGS? Hamilton fans - HOGS?