F1/ Formula E/ Motorsport Thread

So why was MV allowed to win the race behind the safety car at Spa which gave him the WC lead on amount of wins? And also meant that LH had no other option other to finish in front of MV in Abu Dhabi and in turn limited the tactics Mercedes could use as well.

If finishing behind the safety car at Spa was good enough MV why was finishing behind the safety car in Abu Dhabi not good enough for LH??? Furthermore the Spa finish was totally manufactured just so they could award half points, there was certainly no racing there

 

It hasn't really been stated as it is less of a point than those made above, but one that points to fairness. Technically only allowing lapped cars to pass between Hamilton and Verstappen also protected Max from being attacked from behind by other cars like Sainz. Sure Max was on faster tyres and was going to sprint into the distance, which shows it was inevitable, but shows the biased nature of the decision and that he only wanted Max attacking Hamilton for the win.

 

Yep....of all 14 cars still on the track by the last lap, only Verstappen benefitted from the decision. It was detrimental to all other drivers. Basically had Christian Horner himself been given the chance to be the race director for that final lap, he would have done exactly the same. It was a decision of extreme bias towards one team and one driver. For the good of F1 this has to go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. Anything else would be a travesty to allow that type of race fixing to go without an independent analysis.

 

Because that was a different race?

Under different conditions

With no chance of a getting the final lap in.

And it was dangerous.

Other than that, I agree, it's been unkind to Mercedes this year.

 

Spa was only a 2 lap 'race'. It was under the safety car from start to finish. Max Verstappen won in a time of 3 minutes 27 seconds.

 

Spa in isolation was a bit of a joke.

 

Types out ‘furthermore’ and ‘manufactured’ but ‘Max’ and ‘Lewis’ was a step too far.

 

Interesting view from Stroll’s car (with a sweary bit at the end) of the chaos that ensues when you’re told you can unlap yourself before racing restarts:

https://twitter.com/sophwebsterxx/status/1470779102047133697?s=21

“Blue flag, blue flag….now you can race, push push… blue flag for the Alpha Tauris…”

Haha shambles.

 

On the first point, I'll only try explaining once more as I'm headbutting a wall on this one. If Red Bull had time to pit for softs then so did Mercedes. They even told Hamilton on team radio "We didn't want to risk track position". Yes, Max had on 21 lap old tyres instead of 40 but it would still have been difficult to hold off an attack with the cars stacked up from a safety car. I know it's hard to believe, but I have actually been on a pit wall for a race (Britcar 24hr not F1), been in garages for pit stops and spoken to team managers and drivers... It used to be my thing, and my mate was a race engineer so I've been behind the scenes. The strategy talk I've been posting is from experience, not from armchair viewing.

The rest I completely agree with. The radio with race officials should be on a speak-when-spoken-to basis, and only when getting their side of the story regarding potential penalties/investigations.

 

WHAT A CARVE UP



AND MOST OF THE DRIVERS SEEMED TO AGREE​

 

The issue was, and it was identified by the commentary very early, that given the amount of damage, the likelihood was that the race was going to end up behind the safety car, or there would be 1 lap racing without lapped cars being let through. In any other race, it would have ended behind the safety car.

Mercedes would have to guess that the race officials were going to only allow through cars between Max and Lewis, which was Max's only win condition given the amount of damage and laps left, which would be an absolutely bonkers thing to think, and only marginally more bonkers than it actually happening.

 

Merc were ahead. If they had pitted Lewis, Max would have stayed out on his newer tyres, gained track position and won the race behind the safety car becaue Masi wouldn't have made his bonkers call.
Red bull merely had to do what Merc didn't. Merc did not have any option other than to do what they did.

 

Paper scissors stone. Where Mercedes can go first but not second - or indeed, at the same time.

 

Statistically incorrect. Since 2010 the average safety car deployment length is 5.3 laps, since the introduction of the VSC the period under an actual safety car has reduced to an average of 3 laps. Latifi crashed with 6 to go, and the barrier also wasn't damaged. Therefore all indicators suggested the race would go green before the end.

And regardless of whether you think it's a bonkers decision or not, and regardless of how much predicting they'd have to do, they did have the opportunity to stop. All these ifs and buts are ignoring the point - they could have stopped, but they chose not to. That was the wrong choice. It's fact. I really don't understand why so many here are so up in arms at the suggestion, it literally played out on the screen, you all saw it, so why the hell are you all denying it?

 

So which is it? Our opinions aren't valid because we're "armchair fans" or we have to accept what we saw on the screen, (like you)? I think all those fumes have affected you mate.

 

Hahaha, Christ sake.

The first was talking about things considered during strategy discussions, the second was saying we all saw them lose on TV. That was what I was referring to us all seeing...?

Valiant/desperate attempt, but completely unrelated.

Sent from my Pixel 4 using Tapatalk

 

In hindsight, red flagging the race was the sensible thing to do given the number of laps left, but the nature of the accident didn't warrant it. Masi decided to make a call based on the incident not the no. of laps, which is the correct thing to do.

Safety cars always unwind the lapped back markers unless track safety conditions (usually very wet) dictate. Masi said that this is the protocol this very season. Why has this changed simply because of the no. of laps left?

He then took the decision - likely due to marketing pressure to restart the race so it didn't finish under the safety car. By not allowing the backmarkers to unlap themselves. This I would suggest is out of the ordinary but an acceptible compromise (and as I understand it within the race directors purview). Max has been given the advantage of closing the gap but he still has to quite rightfully overtake the backmarkers between him and Lewis albeit under blue flag.

After this decison Whinger Spice started screaming at him over the radio, Masi capitulated, allowing just the cars between Max & Lewis to get out of the way. So Max gets the advantage of a free gap reduction, backmarker overtakes on top of the fresh tyre advantage. Not to mention the debacle that is the 2 lap race earlier in the season - also Masi.

For me the decision is done. It's public the FIA know they have right royally fcked up a perfect advertising opportunity. They can't really reverse the decison and award the title to Hamilton, if I was Hamilton I wouldn't want to win it that way. Even Max in his heart knows that his first championship is tainted.

It's a **** show from start to finish and the only way to come out of it is to massively change the rules.
There should be no initial contact from teams to race director.
Masi needs to go. The race director should be an experienced ex-driver advised by a coupel of rules experts.
Rules on overtaking, going/forcing off circuit need to be clarified.
Safety car rules must be set in stone.

As a suggestion. I would enforce all cars to carry an extra 5 laps of fuel. Should something like this happen again I would allow extra laps for backmarkers to unlap themselves at the end of a safety car period, so that these extra unlapping laps don't affect the no. of laps raced or under normal safety car.

If F1 want a new race director I'll do it for £50K a year plus expenses.

 

The FIA has admitted the outcome tarnished their own championship. I think that really ends the debate. Mercedes have accepted that act of public contrition and decided not to pursue their appeal, though I'm not sure they would have anyway.

 

As expected Merc legal challenge dropped.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59681314

It really benefitted nobody.
I would assume that some promises of change have been agreed in the background.

 

Because, clearly, they forgot to include in their strategy the possibility of Masi making up new rules to suit whatever agenda was clearly at play. And it seems like there was some sort of agenda...primarily, 'the race must not finish behind a SC'...

 

In hindsight Verstappen did nothing wrong. He just benefited from a screw up of epic proportions which has tarnished the reputation of F1. It would have been wrong to have taken the title away from him now, even if he's not really deserving of the title.

At the very least, Michael Masi has to step down. He is clearly biased towards Red Bull for whatever reason. He basically handed them the title with manipulation, not just in the last race but also the farcical Belgium Grand Prix, where he instructed two laps be run under the safety car so Max could claim 12.5 points and Lewis got 7.5 points giving Verstappen an extra 5 points on his rival. That would have been a critical lead going into the final race, and strategy would have been different as Verstappen would would had just 8 wins, tying with Hamilton's 8 race wins so he would have had no advantage going into the final race.

Masi destroyed a brilliant season with his random and bizarre decision making. Hopefully new rules and guidelines will be put in place, but Masi just has to go. His position is untenable IMO.

 

The agenda was that the race must end in a duel between Max and Lewis, irrespective of the rules or fairness.

I think the right action was taken post-race. The FIA announced they massively messed up. Mercedes aren't going to drag F1s name further through the mud. I imagine Masi will either be sacked, or his role will be massively diluted with much more accountability around him.

Even if the final lap incident didn't happen, a revamp of the structure is needed. You cannot have teams shouting in the officials ear and you cannot have rules which change entirely at the whim of the race director without informing teams first.

 

The FIA has belatedly announced an inquiry into the outcome of the Abu Dhabi GP

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/59987230

 

That tells you everything you need to know about the children running F1 now.

 

He was clearly influenced but because he was under pressure and had little support, not because he's corrupt. It's human nature to repeat language as well. You even see it on here - someone uses a slightly unusual word and suddenly it pops up a couple more times in posts that day.

 

Agree. There were enough inconsistent decisions on both sides to prove the result wasn't a fix.

The issues were
1. Masi made the worst, and most unfair call at the worst time. Mostly because of the pressure the teams were allowed to put on him and the limited amount of support he had to deal with it.
2. Bottas was absolutely useless for most of the year and so far off the pace that he couldn't protect against numerous Max pit stops.

 

Add to the above this line from that article: "It is believed Masi took the decisions he did because he was trying to accede to an agreement made with the teams that races should not finish under the safety car if at all possible."

Which in all fairness is what happened, and if Hamilton was behind Max with fresh tyres would also have likely happened, (though the absolute sh*tstorm Redbull would have created would still be going on now).