Watford Fc - A Deeply Rotten, Toxic Club

I don’t think our model changed or progressed at all from season one in the Premier League though. Yes we bought players like Richarlison and Pedro, but we still bought players like Dawson and Welbeck. The only think that changed was the budget.

This is why we had the famous “Lessons have been learnt” interview from Duxbury post relegation, and he talked about not signing players like Welbeck, and instead buying more Richarlisons. If anything his suggestion was that we went too far away from buying young prospects rather than our model having moved towards it. We then proceeded to buy Danny Rose and pensioners like Kucka.

 

London what's going on with you in the past 24 hours - how can you write this?!?! Bayern will be winning their TENTH TITLE IN A ROW come the end of this season. Endless editorials and think pieces are produced discussing their dominance, and how bad it is for the league as a whole. Similarly, Barcelona and Real have between them won 17 of the 21 league titles in Spain this century (the other 4 only came from two teams - Valencia and Atletico) and only 2 of the last 17 trophies have been won by someone other than the big two (both Atletico).

Those leagues are literally famous for being closed shops with insanely disproportionate power and money imbalances - the Spanish tv deal alone is a cause celebre, right up to the point of the new collective bargaining agreement the other clubs have been pushing through in the past year.

 

doubt we can even achieve that unless all the stars align. So much resource sloshing in the top 10 now. Back to the young player point, did it ever really work in that way even when we were established? Richarlison, Hughes and Doucoure I suppose. Keeper is always old. Defence always journeymen (sometimes high recently low standard). Deeney always up front. They tried with Success and Peneranda I guess. Youth programme non existent. It just feels like we don’t develop young players at all.

 

And before we get to Juve and PSG!

 

I like the idea of signing Capone. Might intimidate the opposition.

 

‘feels like’? We simply don’t. This whole argument around not having a youth setup because bigger clubs supposedly steal any players that are above average is because we don’t develop young players. As someone else said, the head of the academy is Richard Johnson. That’s how serious it’s taken.

 

Not sure what the fuss is about the youth set up . In the last 20 years how many premier league quality players did our youth set up actually produce? . I can only think of Ashley young .

That was when it was less likely that any quality players would be poached before getting anywhere near the first team . So what would be the point of ploughing more money and resources into our youth set Up if the goal is to be a premier league club. Simply pointless .

 

Maybe. Southampton/Everton/Palace/Leeds regularly produce youth players for first team. I don't see why we can't, but we don't even try.

Anyway the point is we don't develop players full stop, even ones we buy. The Pozzo model is a myth.

 

That's the thing, I looked at the squad that was announced this week and didn't know whether to laugh or cry. It's a disjointed mess.

A bunch of championship level misfits with Sarr for £30m sitting in with them. The great scouting network that picked up crap journeymen for next to nothing and one player that cost a fortune.

 

All Category One academies. Would love to see serious investment in the academy and see some youth players make an impact, but just not sure it's financially viable, especially if we're going to start bouncing between PL and Championship.

 

We won't be bouncing between the Premier League and Championship if we go down this season. That'll be it for a while. More chance of bouncing between the Championship and League One.

 

I mean we don’t really need an academy, scrap it.

Pozzo’s buy a club in Belgium, set up a Watford B team, sign young players released and high potential players in cheaper territories.

Some play in Belgium, some play in high quality friendlies against actual mens teams for Watford B and pick out the good ones.

Simple.

 

Disagree

 

I understand you want us to try for some emotional reason , but logically and commercially it makes no sense to do so . Some players have developed others haven’t .

 

I would like us to try yes. It gives team spirt and togetherness to the club of which we have very little. And I don't think it makes no commercial sense to do so. Plenty of our rivals develop youth players by creating Category 1 academies - so can we. Perhaps we can use some of the money we regularly flush away on our journeyman model and paying off coaching teams.

But we are off on a tangent here - let's not forget this initial dialogue was because you claimed the Pozzo model was about buying young potential talent and developing them into gems. The facts are that simply doesn't happen. Ignore the youth team question. They don't do it full stop. I can count about 3 relatively young players who have improved after joining us and playing in the first team.

Pozzo's preferred model is to hoover up aging journeymen for free or for minimal fees, or to occasionally sign a higher value player in his mid to late 20s who has lost his way. He also like to give average aging players long contracts. Oh, and best of all spend tens of millions with associated agent fees on Mogi Bayet's mediocre squad filler client list.

The Pozzo model as you describe it simply doesn't exist, as can be evidenced by the last 10 transfer windows.

 

Makes you wonder what the overall idea is. Put money in the pocket of dodgy mates? I have no idea. There must be some plan.

 

This is what I meant earlier in thread. We don’t do it so it’s not a good idea. Fans turned into sheep by the way the club is run. “Some players have developed others haven’t” is such a meaningless statement, I genuinely believe that’s the clubs philosophy. A shrug of the shoulders. On pretty much everything.

It’s too late now anyway. Any return of a youth project would take 10 years to get going. They won’t be here in 10 years.

 

I guess we can only comment on the seemingly illogical decisions our club takes in terms of the fact that they happen. It may well just be stupidity, laziness or incompetence. I agree there are less palatable reasons out there but there is no evidence to suggest any wrong doing so have to give the ownership benefit of the doubt in that regard.

 

There go the delusions of superiority again . One of the things that riles me about this forum . I’m a sheep because I hold the view I hold . When I hold a view it’s based on what I know , what I’ve personally observed and the opinion I’ve formed on it . I may be wrong , as may you but just because I hold a different view to you doesn’t make you superior .

 

To be fair it's not really any different from you saying I want a category 1 academy "for some emotional reason", whereas your opposite view is because of "logical and commercial" reasons.

 

Ok

ok , I get it . We fundamentally disagree, as you would prefer to go back to Watford being a championship side with a great team spirit and Shaun Murray as our best prospect .I get it. The Pozzos won’t be here forever and you will get that wish at some point .

For now , I like us being in the premier league and challenging in the championship . That’s fine .


We probably have different gauges to measure success. If we get 1 or 2 seasons out of a player in the prem , that’s relative success for me . I get that we have had a lot of failures. But I do believe with a fair wind it and 2or 3 players of quality peaking together we could go somewhere. I think we would need to stay in the prem for a number of years again and keep building and I also agree that we need to find a coach who will be given time to build a squad and a style.

 

If that is what you comprehended from the post you are replying to there is zero point in debating with you.

 

Haha. It is different ,because I wasn’t being derogatory about you forming a view based on emotions . That’s fine , plenty of people are successful from doing that. I just don’t happen to think that’s a good way to run a business. don’t think being called a sheep can be seen as anything but derogatory.

 

Baaaaah

 

Excellent. I’ll get on with my Sunday now

 

Is that a pro or anti sheep post ?

 

The man to save us all, Kwadwo.

 

Yeah, I need to be more specific and less woolly.

 

Our 6th choice right winger. We need to strengthen there in the summer

 

Yes, ewe should have rammed your point home

 

This is what the fanbase is like now. It’s either Pozzo or penniless. It’s weird. Although there is a bit of a climb down from previously, it used to be ‘I like being in the Premier League’, now it’s with the added caveat of ‘and challenging in the Championship’. Life comes at you fast.

Slowly rowing back on those cast iron definites. Soon it’ll be ‘challenging for a playoff place’ by the same people.

 

Yes agreed , challenging for a play off place Is better than struggling at the foot of …