Kiko is made of wet paper. If Cathcart starts on Saturday then we probably should have signed two right backs in the summer.
Cathcart is just not Premiership quality - actually none of our defense is. You could argue Serraltra maybe, but he's not really had the chance to show. Kiko is a steward but injury prone and age is not on his side. Masina has massive lapses in judgement but is an alright defender overall, WTE panic passes from the back and needs to look up for space before he blindly hoofs it to nobody. Ngakia can be very good or very bad, but overall his consistency needs to improve, apart from that I would have him in the side overall. Pollock was a waste of a signing - he could come good but we all know he will never play a league game unless we become so threadbare. Rose has experience at the top level but needs more bedding in time. Our defense has been a worry for so long now, and yet Gino does next to nothing to rectify it. We were pretty untouchable last season but the first player on his list over the summer should of been a right back, then a covering defensive midfielder. I know we have improved on our midfield with Chabs and Hughes leaving, and we are more potent upfront (we hope), but we are going to concede more than we score. We have what we have till January, and unless we can outscore most of the mediocre sides, it could be a case of back where you came from.
Quite - he was never for this season . Maybe that is what Rose meant in terms of being a “waste” - not an option for now.
The defensive situation is utterly bizarre. I don't disagree with a lot of your assessment, but the defence was excellent last season. I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate a little and want to see it from the owner's perspective, just to try to get a handle on why the defence is so largely ignored. Last season, we broke records. Had the joint best defensive record ever in the Championship, so surely that carries some merit? Maybe the players aren't as bad as we think? However, the stats don't really back it up when you get to Premier League level. On average we were conceding an average 1.67 goals during last 4 years in the Premier League, which equates to around 64 goals per season. That's way too high for a club to be a sustainable EPL side. This time around we do have new players. Sierralta (I think everyone would agree is an upgrade), Troost-Ekong and Rose. Bachmann has also been promoted to the number one spot. So it does have a slightly different feel to it. Having said that, we've conceded 5 in 3 this season......and yes....the average is 1.66, so the signs are it will be the same, although admittedly a small data sample to go by....but I'm just looking for indicators. Personally, I think if Sierralta played EVERY game this season and keeps his form, then our defence would probably be ok. He seems to elevate players around him. Before Spurs, we had only 5 shots on target against our goal (in the Villa and Brighton matches). Unfortunately 4 of those went in. Against Spurs, as you might expect, the total increased to 8 on target, but Watford still defended quite well. Only being breached by an obvious mistake. It's easy to say eradicate those mistakes and we'll be fine, and of course that is true, but the players making those mistakes are mistake-ridden players. Troost-Ekong passing it out from the back to an opponent was totally predictable. Bachmann not coming for a cross which lead directly to a goal, again totally predictable, as is Masina being outjumped at a corner and having a brain-fart moment lunging at a player in the penalty box. Kabasele has a reputation for that type of thing too. But the most damning thing, which I just cannot justify, even if I wanted to defend the owner/technical director etc, are the sheer lack of numbers. Why go into a season with only four central defenders? We know at least two of those players are error prone, and another is at an age where he will pick up wear and tear injuries. Already, we're at breaking point, having just two unavailable players. Kiko is injured and Sierralta banned. This will probably mean Cathcart to play at right back with WTE and Kabs in the centre. Using all our available centre backs. We've got no cover whatsoever. Sure Cathcart can be switched to the centre and Ngakia can play RB if we get an injury on Saturday, but that's not really the point. We're already maxed out and are at the tipping point with just a couple of unavailable players. It's just very poor from the club to leave Watford in such a vulnerable position. We've spent very little in the market this season, and of course the financial situation at the club needs careful navigating, but we've actually made a net profit on transfer dealings. We do need to invest in another command CB. We needed it in the year we went down, and we still need it now. We're not going to outscore many opponents, so it's absolutely vital we make ourselves difficult to breakdown. Brighton, Palace and Burnley rely on this trick and it's served them very well. Stock up on good solid CB's and it's a very wise investment. It's a lesson Watford's hierarchy seem to want to ignore, and this is disappointing.
Which is/was exactly my point. We are threadbare at the back and the neglect has been all to plain to see since the last time we were in the Premiership. I do see your point about us having newer faces than last time, and I agree Bachnmann has proven to be a good rival for Foster for the #1 spot. Any injury, as you stated, will put us in a bad situation especially if it's long term. I know the players we have could be enough for survival this season - but it's the lack of resources in this area which is the most alarming. @RS2 Sorry did not mean it to come across like that, I understand he is one for the future I just wish we had gambled on a player who could of played in the first team instead of being loaned out straight away. I do however, want him to succeed.
We only have 4 centre backs in the same way spurs only have one forward. All our 4 are 1st team players, so if we buy another then Cathcart or Kabasele is effectively not on the bench. We should have someone like Pollock getting minutes in the cup and on the bench, but they need to be good enough. Or we buy someone simply better than all 4 of our current lot. But £££ is tight and we persevere and hope injuries don't bite. We're Pozzo owned Watford not Billionare sheikhs playthings.
You could probably add that sending Pollock out on loan is bizarre. Purely from the point of view of his development it makes absolute sense, and he’s probably woefully below PL standard, but he’s a body at least that we could field in an emergency. We’re threadbare as it is, we’ve got further international breaks coming up where we’ll lose players for potentially longer (if the current farce repeats itself again in October or November) plus the AFCON next year. We’re totally threadbare and only an injury or two away from disaster, so despite it being bad for his development, it would’ve made sense to have held him back just so we had an extra body to field in an emergency.
I'm sure the whole team could do with a confidence boost having lost the last 200 mins or so of prem football 0-5.
Just take your vac booklet and say your German. We are usually far less bureaucratic over here. Itll be fine
The good old we don't have a billionaire owner so that is why we can't purchase defenders. A couple of points: 1) Describing Cathcart as a premier league 1st team standard player is generous in the extreme. 2) Why doesn't Pozzo apply your logic when spending £9 million on a 6th/7th choice midfielder like Louza? Here is a compromise for Pozzo - don't buy Louza from your mate Mogi Bayet. Spend it on a couple of defenders. As you say, money is tight.
But, but, but…. we need to invest in players with potential like Louza that we can sell for a profit to fund the purchase of Defenders, like we did in the past when we bought…. Erm… and…
I think we just have to accept that the Pozzo model has something of the buying players with potential good resale value rather than what the team needs first. Slightly square peg for round hole and scattergun And then plugging the gaps with the less good (usually defence where there is less value in resale) and hoping we can stay up. It is frustrating as a fan but it hasn't done us too badly over the last decade or so
I think if Pozzo thinks there is low upside in defenders, then he hasn't been paying attention to the transfer market the last 5 years! You are correct the last 10 years has gone well (ignoring our finances), but my frustration is that I genuinely believe if we hadn't purchased Louza and had invested in just one right back and one center back the transfer window would have been A+. I feel we have undermined a lot of good work by having this blind spot and reduced our survival prospects considerably. It's already coming home to roost on Saturday with Kiko and Sierralta unavailable. We are defensively down to the bare bones on gameweek 4!
When it comes to buying players to make money in the resale, how much of that is actually true? Of course we can quickly name a few shining examples like Richarlison, Doucoure or Iggy, but there have been many we’ve signed for around £10m or below and they’ve not made any profit. Sinclair (£4m), Oulare (£6.75m), Success (£13.5m), Gray (£18.5m), Penaranda (£9.5m), Kaboul (£3.6m), Kums( £8m), Djedje (£3.5m), Stuparevic (£2m), Navarro (£2m), Wilmot (£1.5m), Pussetto (£7.8m), Dawson (£5.5m). We even lost money of Hughes, Capoue & Chalobah. Sold Assombalonga for £1.5m which turned out to be way under his value. That's a lot of money we spent on players but didn't make a profit on any of them. Many ended up going for free or having their contracts paid up. Ok, I know people will say some of that was transfers between Watford and Udinese and doesn't really count, but it does. It's all money taken away from Watford's ability to directly invest in the market. Even players like Pererya, Deulofeu & Okaka we signed for a much larger fees than we sold back to Udinese for. I accept some of it's funny money between us and Udinese but there's still a lot of examples of bad trading Watford have done in the market. I think this notion that the Pozzo family are really shrewd operators is a bit of a myth.
Cathcart is our premier league 1st team member. Thats a Fact (F.A.C.T). If hes good enough / past it is debatable, but if 2 of Kabasele, Sierralta or WTE are injured he's in. We lost Capoue and Doucoure on relegation, Hughes and Chalobah have gone and we probably knew they were going. If we would have spent 9m on a centre half instead, this discussion could well be about Pozzos neglecting the midfield. Etebo, Kucka, Tufan, Louza is good business IMO. I'm not writing off Louza for now as a dud either just yet as many have.
International breaks are the worst. With the transfer window closed, and the withholding of our regular dose of getting beaten in a football match, it’s extremely boring. Can’t wait for the starting line-up to be announced, with Cathcart RB.
Regarding your point about Hughes, Capoue, etc. we got many years of service from them. Not all players are bought as commodities to make profit from, that was the object of some players like Richarlison and what Sarr and Pedro will be. Going over old ground, we paid more for Gray than for Success but at least Gray was useful for one season whereas Success was a waste of time, space and money full stop.
I agree there are probably two different types of player we sign. Sometimes they are for the first team to fulfil a need and some are players of potential who we hope to sell for decent money. That wasn't really the point though. I was just illustrating only a very few players we sign (for whatever reason) do we sell for a profit. I just think it highlights poor judgement, overpaying or underselling. IMO we undersold Wilmot, Assombalonga, Dawson and even Doucoure and Ighalo, with the latter two sold beyond their optimum time. Hughes and Chalobah should not have been sold for losses (I know the reasons for it, but it shouldn't have happened). Capoue I get because of his age, and that's fair enough. The same will apply to Cleverley when he goes. Now a lot of this was under the old management of Giraldi and Nani. We've got to see how it pans out under Giaretta. So far he's doing ok, from what I can see, although Wilmot to Stoke was under his watch. I suspect Louza may turn out to be another loss, but it's unfair to judge him yet. Just a hunch I have. There are always excuses for individual cases, such as signing Dawson for £5.5m then 12 months later selling him to West Ham for half that. You could say it's down to relegation, pandemic, and a desperation to get some money in.....all of which rings true, but I'm looking at this holistically over a wide ranges of transfer dealings and the resutls are there for all to see. We are not as good at selling players for a tidy profit as a club of Watford's standing should be.
This really doesn't help your argument. We have space in the squad to have another centre back. The fact that Cathcart would currently be in if there is an injury isn't being debated, it's just an illustration of the precarious position we are in. We are so thin that he is starting at RB. Louza is behind Etebo, Kucka, Tufan, Sissoko, Cleverley. I have a suspicion Xisco would opt for Gosling over him as well. Whether he is a dud or not isn't really the point. The fact is we spent £9m on what looks like the 6th or 7th choice centre mid. Remove Louza and do the other business we did and Pozzo could not be accused of neglecting the midfield given he has brought in 4 other players.
Don't think right back would have been high on the agenda. There were other positions we were dreadfully short on which needed attention and in fairness they have done this. We will always concede more than we score, we're a little fish in a big pond
At least it isn't as bad as my fantasy team. I've only got 7 players available to play (2/3 defenders, 1/2 strikers, 4/5 midfielders). It could always be worse!
I suspect, or at least hope that he wasn't bought to be 6th or 7th choice and maybe like Doucoure he will prove doubters wrong. I can't argue against centre backs though, no matter what the standard of the four of them is, four just doesn't seem enough especially when two of them are in their 30's
Really dislike Wolves and their Neanderthal supporters, would love nothing more than leaving them 6 points adrift of us and languishing at the bottom. I know a few of those Neanderthal’s so need some ammunition. They are not very impressed with this transfer window and lack of activity and their squad looks thin a few injuries suspensions away from a real struggle. Raul Jaminez has not come back the player he was (probably not playing ) they’re relying on unknown South Korean and a young Silva up top. On paper they look a lot stronger than us but I thought that against Villa. 3 points for us really is up for grabs we need to make the Vic a fortress as home form is key especially against teams outside the top 6. Really hope Kiko is back for this one and we go for it from the start Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yours is a fine argument. Aside from I never said Cathcart was a perfect premier league defender. I said he was in our first team squad and will be involved. You decided to argue that he wasnt good enough, which I partially agree with. Re Louza.. Can we not pigeon hole into a perception of what type of Pozzo transfer he is? Or what his role is? He is clearly potential and has time to develop so lets not write him into the Oulare / Berghuis / Sinclair roles before he's even played 90 minutes.
Kiko's out injured sadly, as is Foster. Both will miss the Wolves game. https://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/s...-francisco-sierralta-talks-joao-pedro-return/
