Ufo’s

Very possible.

On the lying point though this is why criminal courts usually don't accept hearsay as admissible evidence - reporting your recollection of what someone else told you is weak evidentially speaking and unless there's a recording of that conversation at best comes down to one word against another if disputed. That doesn't apply to a legislative committee hearing like this but it doesn't really change the nature of the evidence.

Ultimately the sooner they can get to the people who actually saw this stuff rather than the people who spoke to the people who saw the stuff the better.

 

Agreed , let’s hope this is the first stage of a process that leads to a process that enables or forces these people to reveal under oath .

Several people with long and illustrious careers in US political arena/ intelligence services have vouched for Grusch’s character.

I can’t see a realistic scenario where he isn’t speaking the truth or at least what he believes to be the truth . He could be the victim of a complex misinformation programme, which in itself would be just as suspicious and worthy of investigation.

 

No doubt it'll be source: trust me, bro.

 

I change my mind fairly regularly between they have been here and they are just army coverups to hide new tech.

The thing I can never get round Is why would so many crash , you would think by the time you had managed interstellar travel you would have ironed out things going wrong.

this is the latest on the hearing , makes interesting reading , but it says something that it’s not a major story on the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-66307705

this has always struck a chord with me

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter

Essentially if life exists in the universe and is as plentiful as scientist suggest why have we never seen any evidence (paradox).

The great filter response to the paradox is that either we are the first and most advanced , or that other civilisations have come and gone either wiping themselves out or natural catastrophe before they could become space fairing nations , swing the state we have made of our world and our failure to move past war seems plausible to me.

 

TBF, I’ve got a PhD but I can’t drive.

 

So, this is a list of what happened, it was a surreal watch for sure.

All under oath and on public record now. Copied this from elsewhere but it is an accurate account of what happened.

1. They have much more specifics that can only be shared behind closed doors with congress members (due to security clearances)
2. We have multiple-sensor kinematics, videography, and photography of many UAPs
3. Witness demurred when asked if there have been murders as part of cover-up
4. Witnesses described "No evidence of UAP" statement as inaccurate
5. Unable to defend against them whatsoever
6. They are common, and there is now standard pre-flight briefings when pilots are encountering UAPs (military)
7. Their capabilities exceed anything possible now or in the next ten years
8. There are active crash retrieval and reverse-engineering programs, and witnesses have given exact names, location, and photographic and sensor-based evidence to congress in closed sessions
9. Biological material has been retrieved
10. Humans have been injured in the process of engineering/ retrieval
11. The programs are paid for via misappropriated funds; private companies will overcharge the USG, with the excess going to these programs
12. Both humans and UAPs have harmed human witnesses
13. Witness could not describe in open setting besides describing what he and his wife personally saw as "exceptionally disturbing"
14. Witness demurred when asked if there has been formal contact between USG and UAPs
15. There are active retaliation efforts by senior leaders of intelligence and military community, including harsh reprisals; currently an open whistleblower reprisal investigation for one of witnesses
16. It's possible that UAPs are conducting reconnaissance, probing capabilities, and have an interest in our nuclear capabilities specifically
17. Private companies have retaliated against commercial pilots reporting by issuing C&Ds
18. Specifically do not call it extra-terrestrials, they're non-human intelligence to avoid speculating origin
19. When asked if other foreign powers have safety measures to mitigate risk of escalatory situation in the event of UAP malevolence, witnesses confirmed there is existing agreements recently declassified that had been appended to previous nuclear treaties
20. Private indivduals as well as intelligence staff decide who has security clearances.

Congressman Ogles was very annoyed about the committee being denied SCIF access and will ask for that to change, if not he will push something called the Holman Rule. SCIF is basically a secure room where secrets can be told to people with high enough clearance.

"The Holman rule is a rule in the United States House of Representatives that allows amendments to appropriations legislation that would reduce the salary of or fire specific federal employees, or cut a specific program. Versions of the rule were in effect during 1876–1895 and again during 1911–1983."

I would encourage everyone to watch the hearing, it was surreal to say the least.

 

Great summary.

Can I add some reflections of my own…

1- Just to reiterate Grusch stated clearly that he was willing to report to the congress members in private, secure meeting ( SCIF ) names of colleagues who had direct experience of crashed craft ( and stated that some of these would be prepared to testify publicly if they felt they had protection from Congress ) He also stated he was willing to reveal in a SCIF the exact location where these craft were stored. This will give Congress the information of where to investigate .
The reason why Grusch repeatedly declined the request to answer specifics in public was due to NDA’s , security clearances .

2- The impression given by the Congress Reps was that this was just the start and that after further investigation more hearings would be held.

3- The second aim was to create safe arena for military and commercial pilots to report sightings so that comprehensive data can be collected to make scientific assessment. Graves stated he believed that 95% of pilot sightings are unreported for fear of their reputation and career being harmed .

4- Representative Gaetz stated he has seen photographic evidence that categorically shows a fleet of UAPs that definitely were of Non Human Origin . Representative Burchette stated similar .

5- It was stated by Representatives Gaetz, Burchette, and Luna that they were blocked by defence officials of seeing evidence despite having the correct clearance authority.

6- There seemed genuine anger from Congress that information is being illegally withheld from them and therefore the American public .

 

Unless there was a lobster-shaped telephone on show, that is a misuse of the word “surreal”.

 

That has always been my enquiry . Why would these craft of intelligence way beyond our crash so readily .

However the only thing we can do is follow the facts as they present to us . And the fact is these craft are definitely there , behaving in ways that is beyond our understanding of aeronautics and as Commander Fravor stated , we don’t even have the materials science to build these even if we understood the aeronautics.

As to the crashed vehicles , it seems so outlandish . But the quality and integrity of Grusch testimony means we must at least take his claims with utmost seriousness . He has nothing to gains from this and an awful lot to lose including the safety of himself and his family .

 

“Definitely there” and “a fact” in what sense? Just stating it doesn’t make it true. Isn’t that the point of the hearings? You seem to be prejudging the outcome.

 

The craft are definitely there because there have been numerous instances where the following have occurred
1 - craft observed by multiple pilots who are all highly trained and reliable observers .
2- same observations backed up by multiple radar sources from ships all exactly corroborating the same data
3- same observations are further backed up by other sensor data ie FLIR which is infrared.


This data has shown the craft moving at speeds way beyond US fighters , moving in a way that is impossible under our current understanding of aeronautics ie stopping immediately from a Mach 2 speed . Dropping down from 80,000 ft to sea level in under a second . The craft show no sign of a sonic boom or any heat signature which contravenes every rule of aeronautics as understood by human intelligence today .

The above facts have been testified by highly credible ex pilots to a congress oversight committee whilst under oath . If that is not enough for you then fine , that is your choice .

I could go on but I suggest if you are interested just do your own research because then you can draw your own conclusions rather than relying on others to provide that information . That would then enable you to contribute to the conversation in a constructive, informed and intelligent manner .

If you are not interested then fine too , no one really cares either way .

 

For a grammar pedant you seem to be strangely unaware of the rules regarding single and double quotation marks .

Oh, and just a gentle reminder that all punctuation should be within the quotation marks, not outside . Your full stop is outside .

 

Just watched the whole thing , very compelling and hard to argue with credible witnesses.

a few observations similar to others

Some members of congress clearly believe and are pissed that they are being blocked

Grusch refusal to use the term ET is interesting, wasn’t sure if he was implying something

 

He said outright (at least twice) that they could
be extra-dimensional rather than extra-terrestrial in origin.

Important distinction to make: one's unfathomably unlikely, the other is downright bonkers.

 

Extra-dimensional is a very interesting quote. Could this be more to the parallel universe theory?
Far to drunk to watch now but will at a later date.

 

Maybe there's plenty of evidence but the governments don't believe the human race are ready to know the truth.

 

A pretty huge what ?

 

Nope, wrong on both counts. Do your own research.

If no one cares either way whether someone believes this stuff, why did you start a thread which seeks to canvas (sic) forum opinion?

 

Just wanted to point out that you always have a space between the end of the sentence and the full stop.
Actually fits in quite well with the thread itself

 

Yeah agree with this. They talked at the beginning (was it Mr. Garcia?) Mentioning that the evidence is clear and compelling but so far I haven't seen any credible empirical evidence just heresay. Before anyone jumps on that, I have seen the videos from Nimitz which David Fravor witnessed and whilst it is interesting, we cannot definitively say that the UAPs were extraterrestrial in origin although it cannot be ruled out either but is much more unlikely.

I do agree with Mr. Graves that pilots and aircrew should not fear providing their eye witness accounts of UAPs for fear of losing their job and professional status.

 

Exactly. There is definitely stuff out there that defies easy explanation but that does not mean it is of extra terrestrial origin.

I want to believe but I need something more substantial than hearsay and weird phenomenon. There are plenty of strange things in nature that we have difficulty explaining, such as ball lightning.

As you say, I don't rule out ET but I think, based on the current evidence, there are other explanations that are more likely, especially when evidence is purely based on tech like radar.

 

"Ball lightnight" is a very expensive and painful procedure. Never again.

 

and I thought having a manicure and my eyebrows plucked for my wedding was painful (think my wife was taking the piss and trying to see how far I would go)

 

I can't believe this thread is taken seriously. There is very little that comes out of America that I would not take with a pinch of salt.
If aliens had developed the technology to get to Earth they would have better things to do than these people suggest.

 

Like what?
Anyway it's not just the States who are holding back information and tech.

 

Perfectly reasonable stance and you wonder how these days with cameras in every pocket how there aren’t thousands of compelling
pictures. However there is so much noise on this matter, disinformation , clearly faked photos, quotes from people that know someone, who was the uncle of someone that worked in Area 51 etc that we will never really know for sure until a government comes out and admits it(which almost happened yesterday).

For me the three witnesses seemed credible , the pilot particularly, when he describes the way it manoeuvres, its capabilities and affirms that he does not believe the technology comes from here, you have to believe he knows what he has seen, even if he doesn’t know what it is.

If you look at the tic-tac and assume it’s real (based on evidence given)then the options are

it’s terrestrial, who would have the capability to produce something so advanced and maintain such a level of secrecy , the answer would almost be as scary as it being a UFO.

the device is of non current human origin (ET / multi dimensional / time travellers from the future etc etc)
​

My gut believes it’s real, I don’t think we have the technology to produce such craft yet , so the only logical option is we didn’t make it.

But until somebody produces an alien spaceship and parades it outside the whitehouse / House of Commons and then has a press conference with the greys we will never know for sure.

 

Well, what is their purpose in coming here?

 

Well hopefully we will find out one day.

 

But you must have a theory. They don't seem to be attempting to communicate with us, certainly not on a large scale. They don't seem to be settling here, unless we can't see them. Are they just testing out their craft on their way to somewhere else?

 

Why does everyone seem to think any alien craft would have lifeforms inside? The fact that these things appear to move with incredible g-forces would suggest immediately that they are self propelled.

 

Fair comment. But that doesn't answer the question of what the purpose of such a craft is.

 

I doubt we will ever know to be honest because if the UAP were human-made, I doubt the Pentagon would admit to it because it has to protect its tech and defensive capabilities. Especially in the current world, the Chinese "weather" balloon was mentioned a few times as an example.

You've got to ask the question that if there is extraterrestrial tech that the US possess and they have encountered aliens, is the public ready for the bombshell? I highly doubt it.

By the way, for the record I absolutely believe there will be other intelligent life in our galaxy but have they visited Earth? That is another question which I personally am dubious about until I've seen actual evidence. Yes, the witnesses seem credible and they are looking out for our best interests especially in respect to commercial aviation but for me that isn't enough to believe it.

 

No theory at all. My guess would be observational.

 

They could be something of our drone technology.

 

Do you believe in God or any other religions? There's no concrete proof to any of it.