I found myself nodding in agreement to the first half of this post but then finished it thinking you are a tool Kelso. Good work in a few paragraphs. There was endless debate when Britos equalised against Liverpool. So by the same measure first and third goals were offside and the assault on Chalobah went without a penalty. You don't think these decisions make it a closer game?
Translation: Firstly the ref was a ringing bell and I hope shoves a wasp up his nostrils with a pair of gloves with a parakeet in his hand for good measure. Come on mods, these banned words are just getting ridiculous now.
A master class from City. Positive to pick out our side was Carillo's performance, he looks an excellent footballer. Against less capable sides he as Richarlison will be an absolute handful with Pereyra wedged between them. I just hope all three can see the season through fit. Fans starting to dig out Gray after a handful of games is fairly typical of Watford fans. He'll do plenty for us this season.
Just watched the footage on Sunday morning MOTD repeat. Very fair representation I thought. Showed our chances (even though we fluffed a couple), flagged up the penalty & offside claims but rightly showed Man City to be the ruthless, brilliantly talented machine they are at the moment. Lineker for once summed it up perfectly when he said at the end '...as for Watford, they'll have better days'. No more analysis required! Aguero has scored 9 in 5 matches against us - I wonder how our defence are getting used to the new a r s e holes he ripped for them. As for De Bruyne, just how good is he? On top of all that City did their homework and easily snuffed out our Chalobah/Doucoure threat. Upon reflection I don't actually mind us losing 6-0 at home yesterday. There wasn't much we could do to stop City, at times they were a guilty pleasure to watch. I hope the reality check we got doesn't shatter our confidence too much. Keep up our away form at Swansea & West Brom and we'll be ok again.
City were absolutely stunning to watch, their movement was world class. We didn't play bad by any stretch which just shows how good they actually were. They hunted in packs when out of possession allowing them to get the ball back and quickly counter. Grays first touch wasn't there yesterday, but he did a decent job up top. Despite the scoreline there are positives to take from the game.
I'm all for remaining positive after this sort of result but we also have to be realistic. They are good but they only beat the muff in injury time, drew with Everton, only beat Brighton by 2. Yes we had chances but they had plenty attempts in the 30 mins before they scored.
I'm not sure who this is directed at, pretty much everyone has accepted we were outclassed and that better officiating wouldn't have changed the result. It's not the job of the officials to favour the attacking team by getting decisions wrong, no. A player is either offside or he isn't, and both Aguero and Jesus were offside. Tight calls but both definitely wrong. There were some very bad decisions too, the penalty on Chalobah and the failure to spot the foul on Janmaat when he headed the ball out for a corner probably being the worst. People are just commenting on a very poor refereeing performance, not using it as an excuse for the result - what's the problem with that?
The linesman's "job" at a free kick is to look along the line and flag for offside when it occurs. There was no doubt it was offside. In fact the second furthest forward player was one of theirs as well. There is no excuse for a linesman to get that wrong from a free kick - a static situation.. The third goal offside is more difficult to spot as it was a dynamic situation with movement from several players ahead of the ball. But, nevertheless, the lino clearly got that wrong as well, it wasn't even close. I dont think it is the linos job to give close calls to the attacking side, offside is offside. But without the benefit of seeing the wording in the regulations, I am inclined to think they say that where an offside decision is too close to call, he should give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker - something quite different. I dont think anyone has said that the defeat was the "fault" of the officials, but as I and others have said, fine margins and poor decisions at crucial times can strongly influence the game. I think those two decisions were at crucial times and effectively ended our chance of staying in the game.
Or lose and we will be on 8 points and below Hudd, Newcastle, Burnley and Swansea who most on here are tipping as making up 2 of the 3 relegation slots. Really can't form a view on how we will do until we have played 10 games.
Quite. Yet last week, after just 4 games, many on here were saying we were heading for Europe, would top "Premier League 2" etc etc.
He quite clearly can't play the role though, hence the zero goals and zero shots. And we've played some terrible teams, not man city every week. Meanwhile our striker who can and has scored doesn't even make the bench. I know silva is untouchable to some people, but playing with that luton **** up front is like having ten men.
Ah, I thought your irrational hatred of anything Luton-related would come through sooner or later. Time to grow out of it or get some counselling.
My beef with you regarding Gray relates to your relentless negativity directed at him since day 1. I'd agree that his first touch isn't the best as illustrated again yesterday and obviously as a striker he's expected to score goals. But how can relentless negativity wherever it's directed be construed as 'support'? I suspect that your view of him is entirely coloured by the fact that he was once a scummer. Well here's the news. Players don't share the same allegiances that we do. Ultimately they're all just mercenaries passing through. Apart from the odd 'one-club-man' like Brooking or le Tissier or one that does make a point of playing for his home town club like Shearer. So get over Gray's playing history eh? He's a Brummie. Why should he care?
Seeing that Holebas challenge made me wince. The bloke is a tosser - it happens far too regularly for it not to be a problem that needs urgent action.
This was definately the case yesterday, the two goals totally changed the complexion of the game. City were the better side but we were hanging in there and looked like we could cause some trouble on the break with a better first touch/final ball.
A very fair analysis as to be expected ZZ. It falls down on only one point. There were plenty here who were/are calling fault with the officials as individuals. In the Premier League we have the very best officials on the planet that humanity can provide. Bar none. They have all been through the ranks from Sunday Leagues upwards and have been selected as the 'cream of the crop'. So they get the majority of decisions correct. Far more than those howling from 'roughly in line' positions in the GT or from the Rookery where you really haven't got a clue. So I find the vitriol directed at officials unacceptable. Easy targets with no comeback. Not very brave really is it? Prior to the match we were treated to snippets from the Citeh forum having a go at the ref and linos in advance. During it we were treated to the Rookery calling the lino a c.nt and a big bloke in the GT having a right go at him just before h.t. Seems like everyone wants to 'ave a go. Which indicates that, rather than bias, the exact opposite and that they're not at all. A bit like the Beeb really. If you want the quality of officiating to improve beyond its already high standard then they have to have access to the same sort of technology that the 'armchair enthusiast' enjoys. That's the only way. You already have the best individuals out there who get most things right and certainly far more than those who 'get off' on howling abuse at them would.
The first goal was so marginal I can see how the linesman gave it, and really that was the important one. After that the floodgates have opened, and even if the 3rd (obviously offside) hadn't been given, they'd still have racked up a cricket score. Should've had a penalty, but then again Holebas should've been given a straight red. No complaints, just not our day.
Jesus Kelso. We know all that. But football fans, well sports fans in general, have been screaming at the ref/umpire since the competitive sport was invented. It's part of what we pays our entrance money for. And right from the Sunday leagues they will have been hardened to that sort of thing and will have learnt to shrug it off. I don't suppose the linesman from yesterday will have spent last night tossing and turning in bed worrying whether his parents really were married or whether what the big bloke shouted at him at HT could possibly be true.
I wouldn't disagree that we have (generally) have good officials compared with elsewhere. I dont really know, so cant really compare, and I do think that officials want to be unbiased and balanced when they start a game. But I also think that (being human) they are persuaded, maybe subconsciously, by the situation and events, such as appeals, crowd noise, etc. But the integrity of the officials isn't really my point, it is much smaller than that, and is that two or three mistakes by officials in this game at crucial times, dramatically affected the situation by effectively putting the game beyond us. When a team plays a much better team it is hard enough to stay in the game, but when a team also has to contend with incorrect decisions at crucial times (however marginal), it is just about impossible.
Yeah well, they're human and make mistakes. I am sure 100% that none of the officials saw that either goal was clearly offside, but then decided not to give it. Same with the penalty. Far more likely to be something like them giving 'benefit of the doubt' City's way and just getting it wrong. It's a cliche, but they don't have the benefit of the freeze frame along the line. The game's fast moving, players are darting here and there making runs, you're watching the ball - where there's a long pass through to a forward, it must be nearly impossible to see both the moment the ball is played and simultaneously the position of the forward (where it's a marginal call). By the time you've turned your head that fraction, time's moved on. I reckon they must rely on the sound of the thump of the ball as it's played or something. So as you say, it's mistakes rather than any question of integrity. Sometimes they go for you, sometimes they go against you and not much you can do about it - apart from cheering, booing, catcalling, abusing and denigrating the ref and other officials in the hope that there might possibly be some influence on future decisions. Or perhaps, it may even be a psychological device used to give a ready-made excuse for work on Monday. "See your lot got tonked 6-0 at home then Bob!!!" "Yeah, but the ref was an absolute corrupt and inept *******. Might have got a point if it hadn't been for him. I really gave him some abuse..."
Of course the fact he used to play for those ****s up the road means he has to do extra well to win my approval. The fact he's a hero of theirs makes it even more difficult for me to warm to him. I'm sure most Watford fans feel the same considering they are our most hated rivals. However, if he was banging in the goals and looked decent all that would be forgotten in an instant. But he isn't and he doesn't. Why are you trying to pretend otherwise? He's absolutely awful. The Burnley fans knew it, and now we are seeing it with our own eyes. The fact our only goalscoring striker doesn't even make the bench just makes things even more irritating. Though I appreciate this isn't grays fault. He has to be dropped soon, as it's hard to win football matches with a hapless striker. We won't score worldies from midfield every week.
RC I don't like Luton but Gray is playing for us now and for as long as that is the case I will continue to support him. You sound like the dozy dame and her brother who sit behind me. She was moaning about Doucoure last season and saying Behrami was better. She has now turned her anger on Gray,as have others on here. Yes his first touch could improve,no he hasn't scored yet, but get behind him please. This reminds me of the abuse Jenkins received and he did ok for us didn't he?
I could tell doucoure was a very good player ever since we played Gillingham in the cup the other year, so I really fail to see the comparison between myself and that harridan you sit near. Andre Gray hasn't even shown me a glimmer of hope. How long do you give him until you will accept he should be dropped? 10 games? 15? If he'd been a free transfer he'd be on the bench by now. How long shall we keep punching ourself in the face for just because we bought an expensive boxing glove?
Fair enough. No-one could detest the scumbags more than me (although I admit it might be a dead heat with you and Clive and a few other et al characters on here). But I reserve my ire for their support base rather than their ex-players. How sweet would it be if a player who was once a hero of theirs instead becomes a hero of ours? You say that can't happen. I think the majority of us here are in the 'too soon to judge - the jury's still out' camp. IBB has mentioned Ross Jenkins Mark 1. A very good potential parallel. At first thought to be rubbish then became a club hero.
Refs make mistakes. Fans will rightly call them out on it. Some refs are particularly susceptible to this or think they are the star of the show, such as Taylor. We have all seen some appalling refereeing and we will rightly be pissed off with that and hold them to account. We've also all seen good refereeing (to some extent the best refereeing is the the time you don't notice it or have much to say on it) But, TLDR Taylor is most definitely a **** and it is fun having a go at him and the hopeless lino yesterday after it became apparent they were error prone. It's all part of the atmosphere and I don't buy this "they are above all criticism and their **** doesn't smell" line.
Down the years top teams always have got the calls I believe it's an unconscious bias thing rather than intentional but it's always been there all the same
I'd like to now how the linesman ( left of Rookery) actually can be involved in a PL game. Seemed star struck by Citeh and darent give a decision against them. Very questionable.
Even playing poorly, as he undoubtedly has been, he is still managing to stretch teams with his pace and free up space for others. Take the Muff game where he was also poor, but still managed to cause them problems and set up the decisive goal. I don't think anyone is going to argue that he is playing well, but it makes far more sense to play him than Deeney or Okaka who would be square pegs in a round hole and would have a negative impact on the team's play.
The first offside was tight but that is still a bad error by the Lino. Missing that Jesus was obviously offside suggests that Lino is maybe not up to running the line in the Prem. Taylor's problem seemed to be he never seemed to be watching the game...the 2 handballs by City players just before he gave the free kick against Cleverly that led to the 1st goal should not both have been missed by any competent ref; he had already signaled the corner when Janmaat got clattered, but apparently missed how late the challenge was; and bearing in mind what he sent Ake off for, then to give the obvious thigh high studs up lunge by Walker on Chalobah as a foul & so a pen would have required a red card, something he decided against. He bottled that call totally but missed most others by being way off the pace of the game.
The quality of refereeing in the Premier League is exceptionally good. Remember those Championship days when you couldn't go more than a couple of games without a major mistake from the officials? However there are a couple of rogue ones, and Taylor is constantly poor. I do not understand why he is still operating at this level. He's not up to it, not that Man City would be complaining about him this morning. The offsides are not his fault though. All the linesman has to do is watch the line. It was from a set-piece and he wasn't up with play. That's inexcusable. Not once but twice he missed an offside decision which cost us 2 goals. After these mistakes the game was dead. In games like this, where the opposition is so strong, you have to have good officials. We were very badly let down yesterday. Everyone saw it, the commentators said it during the game, Silva talked about it in his post-match press conference, even MotD seemed sympathetic. There were other things as well. Taylor was letting heavy challenges on our players go. Janmaat got clattered at the far post when he headed the ball out for a corner, nothing given. Richarlison was clearly fouled in the build up for the brilliant Aguero hat-trick goal, so that should not have even happened. Chalobah was fouled in their box at 0-3, so should have been a penalty. Taylor gave back to back corners to City in the second half, when no Watford player touched the ball. It was a catalogue of ineptitude throughout the game, which virtually all went City's way. To try and give some balance, I do think Holebas could have seen red for his challenge on De Bruyne. Now City are a brilliant team and that was probably one of the best displays I've ever witnessed from an opponent. They were awesome, but you cannot hand them so many advantages. It's not the first time he's performed like this either. Anthony Taylor has no place officiating at the elite level.
