Just managed to catch up on here. I went to see the Dortmund Bayern Champions League final a few years ago, and what I witnessed on display there was matched by the quality yesterday. They were excellent. We were okay. Made a few silly mistakes and were punished, but they forced the mistakes. It was a barrage of quality attack after attack. Gray wasn't great - he really needs a goal. I don't think his performances are through a lack of trying, but he does get caught too flat footed too often for my liking. He needs to stay alive even if he is starved of possession. I think a fit Pereyra behind him will work wonders for giving him opportunities, like last season when Defour started hitting form. Still prefer him to Holebas, who is a constant liability. Whether we win or lose depends on whether the opportunities he gifts the opposition are punished/ spotted by the referee. I really like Carrillo and Richarlison, who look like genuine quality. Forget yesterday. If we can get a fit Pereyra, Doucoure, Carrillo and Chalobah playing together, then we can challenge for a European spot. Nothing that I saw yesterday changes my opinion about that.
TBF at times yesterday (notably their marking when we were attacking) it seemed like there were 15 of them on the pitch. I also think that it was a brave decision by Silva not to play 10 fullbacks and a goalie. I can honestly see them getting into double figures against someone this season. Let's move on?
Yes it did. Not only were City prepared to play anywhere and everywhere on the pitch, they pressed hard and fast anywhere and everywhere, too. I believe unkind comments have been made regarding the relative fitness of the teams - I think that's unfair - Watford were run off their feet trying to keep up. City were clearly superior to Watford from the off, but not as superior as they appeared after the first two rather soft goals. And this was as much due to their gain in confidence as to Watford's heads going down. They then went into overdrive with their moves and more and more of it was coming off; (there was a disguised back-heel into space, with the knowledge a colleague was going to sprint 30 plus yards to get to it first and not only did he do it, but had started sprinting before the pass had been made). One had to admire it. But the points have already been made: Watford have only just started playing together in this way and did not have the ingrained team-work to hand to deal with the problems. They also had to contend with some poor refereeing decisions and that considerably altered the scoreline (Never mind about whether or not this was bias or incompetence, the rulings were wrong). Let nobody try to kid you City strolled through this game - they were fully fired-up and went for the throat throughout, and, on top of their finesse, their tackles took no prisoners. It was a master-class of attacking from anywhere on the pitch. But... Watford were not up to the task and I do still wonder how good City would be if a team was able to threaten their goal. We shall find out in due course, but I don't think the Premiership title-race is over yet.
Yep, that's one of them, alright. Hornets were scarce 20 years ago, but these days they are definitely on the up and up. It's a sign.
I fully agree and I watched the match. City were good and ruthless - no showboating - our attacks in the second half showed they weren't totally invincible but we never rolled over and died. We have to move on and, as I've said before, I really think a true(r) indication of how we're going to do this season is going to be our league position after the Chelsea game.
Entomologists and ornithologists of Ricky should stick together even if the latter might forget the plural of genus after an extra glass of claret. What an effing embarrassment ...
If 0-6 is ok I guess Bournemouth must have been celebrating into the small hours after only losing 1-2 in injury time.
Brave or stupid? Goal difference is important. Perhaps silva should have known we weren't good enough to go toe to toe with them and shut up shop, like most pragmatic managers will. I bet city don't beat anyone else by 6 or more goals this season, as no other manager will be as naive. Silva has got form for this too, Hull took some enormous batterings last season if I remember rightly.
No it's not, but what do you suggest "we" do? Make sure that everyone knows (the echo chambers that are fans BBS) that two of the goals should have been ruled offside, our first choice defence was seriously weakened through suspensions/injuries and that we had a number of chances and if we had scored... Call for the sacking, and replacement of the entire team/coaching staff and management? Accept that after receiving such a "thumping" try and learn take some lessons from it (not many I fear except "play a bit better/quicker") and move on to the next game. I tend not to worry/care what the 'Muff-divers get up to. Except, obviously, during our twice a season meetings...
We'd only have lost 3-0 under Walter if the team and he had not downed tools. I think I'll take a few minus on the GD column if it means we play the 100x more exciting football that we have this season. But maybe that's just me.
Despite losing 6-0 I sort of enjoyed it. Much as I don't want to see my team thumped like that I did actually enjoy watching City who were the best side I've ever seen at The Vic. I would rather it didn't happen again though!
I enjoyed Saturday's mauling much more than the last ****ing City gave us. I'm not sure why - I can only put it down to the fact that my wife chose to attend last season's game as her once in a decade trip to a football match and her presence usually adds to the misery of any occassion.
After watching the extended highlights, here are the key moments from Saturday's game. 8 mins. Gomes saved a well struck Fernadinio shot 23 mins. Holebas curls in a lovely free kick and Richalison heads wide. 26 min. De Bruyne floats in a free kick, Watford hold their line well and ensure Aguero is offside before he heads the ball in. Inexplicably the linesman doesn’t do his job and raise the flag and City’s invalid goal stands. It seems obvious to the fans as the chant “1-0 to the referee “ rings around the stadium. 30 mins. A scrappy piece of play by Watford ends up with Janmaat putting a weak challenge on Jesus and going to ground, leaving Jesus a clear run towards our penalty area. He passes to an unmarked Silva who instantly swivels and passes the ball across the goal. Doucoure for some reason actually takes a couple of steps back away from Silva when he should have tracked his run. Gomes does not cut out the ball and Kabasele is in a poor covering position, leaving Aguero the simple task of tapping in probably the easiest goal of his career. It was a really poor goal for Watford to concede and so many mistakes were made by individual players during the build up to it. 35 min. De Bruyne runs through the Watford defence, but shoots straight at Gomes, who gathers comfortably. 37 mins. Watford make a mess of passing the ball out of defence. Doucoure passes to Cleverley who is heavily marked and he loses the ball to Aguero. He plays in Jesus, but fortunately for Watford he made his run too early and was offside before shooting the ball into the net. Yet again the linesman fails to see this and keeps his flag down, for City to score their second invalid goal. This affectively killed the game completely as a contest. 47 mins. Watford start the second half brightly. Holebas does well on the left wing and crosses the ball. This is half cleared to Carrillo who takes a first time shot and curls it only just wide of the far post. 52 mins. Holebas delivers a corner. Chalobah contests the ball and is clattered into with a nasty high foot challenge by Walker. A clear penalty and Chalobah lies writhing on the floor, but referee Taylor decides to take no action. 55 mins. Richalison heads over a difficult chance from a corner. 62 mins. A nice move by City. Aguero cleverly lays the ball off to David Silva and his fierce shot stings the palms of Gomes who saves well. The relief didn’t last long though, as a well worked corner routine finds Silva crossing the ball for an unmarked Otamendi to head the ball in for the fourth goal. 71 mins. A nice corner from Watford sees Richarlison flick on the ball to Capoue who really should score with a header, but he heads the chance wide. A bad miss. 74 mins. Aguero leads a counter-attack. He plays in Sterling, who is unmarked on the edge of the ball but he steers his shot tamely wide. 80 mins. Richalison is clearly fouled but referee Taylor decides to take no action. The ball is taken up field by Walker who passes to Aguero. He runs through the Watford defence as if they were not there and shoots passed Gomes. It was an amazing run and finish, but the goal should not have been allowed to happen had the obvious foul earlier in the move been given. 84 mins. Sterling brings the ball forward and shoots. It takes a small deflection off a Watford player which sends to ball wide. Referee Taylor decides to even the score of three invalid goals and no penalty award all against Watford, and gives a goal kick instead of a corner, just to prove the old adage that things even themselves out eventually. 87 mins. Mendy fires the ball across goal, and it only needed a touch to be converted. Incredibly it evades everyone and the ball flies across the goal. The let off was short lived though, as the second phase of play saw Sterling run across goal only for Kabasele to stick out a clumsy foot. This time referee Taylor got it right and awarded a penalty. After some argument, Sterling sends to ball high to Gomes’ right to score the sixth goal. 92 mins. City are not finished there. Aguero fires in a powerful shot which Gomes is equal to and he palms the ball away.
Thanks for the precis. Saved me from reliving the whole thing. I did watch the offside goals and the non-penalty. Disgusting officiating. Not as if City needed any help. 1-o at half time followed by a Watford pen and it's a completely different game. It's not as if Man C lifted off, so you can't argue that they would have stepped it up to beat us anyway.
One incident is bugging me, but perhaps someone more familiar with the rules could help. It concerns Otamendi nutting Janmaat ( and Walker doing the same to Richarlison). If a player kicks another, he is penalised even if only looking at the ball and making every attempt to play it, so why is nutting another player different? I don't get the whole "intent" idea any more - does it now apply to certain fouls but not handballs? Do refs ever give a foul for a nutting? Is it something to do with a genuine attempt to play the ball? (I'd argue that Otamendi was nowhere near the ball and it was a reckless challenge). Janmaat looked out of it for quite a while after that, which I think contributed to our defensive frailty.
Great summary. Loved the bit about evening up. But Capoue's chance more difficult than Richie's first half miss, as the ball was a bit behind him
Just seen Ref Watch on Sky and was interested in Dermot Gallagher's take on the incidents at the weekend. On the offside goals, he said on the VAR they would both be offside, but he defended the assistant referee by saying both were tight calls. On the Chalobah penalty he said he didn't think it was a penalty, but technically if you broke it all down it was!! Ray Wilkins was then asked his opinion and said it was a penalty and basically made out that DG was talking bollox. On the City penalty, he was full of praise at where Taylor's positioning was and it was an easy call. They ended the conversation by saying "Well done Anthony Taylor". I know he supports the referee's but just be honest. He was full of praise in an incident when a linesman spotted an equally tight offside call in the United v Everton game. Personally I think the first one was a tight call, but seeing as it was a free kick the linesman should have set himself up to have been in the perfect position to have spotted it. The second one was a bad miss, as Jesus was clearly offside, and even his body language after scoring told you he thought it wouldn't stand. Anyway, I get the feeling most people that have reviewed the match sympathise with Watford a little but know City were too good, which they were. The thing is, the size of defeat does matter. Had it been 1-3, as it should have been, then we'd be 5th, instead of 11th. Our GD has taken a battering, and you know once the events of the match fade from memory, only the result remains and will be used as a stick to beat the manager with in the future no doubt. Confidence could also be affected, and now I would say there is more pressure on Watford to go to Swansea and get a result. All our great early season work could be undone because of this match, and it would be so unfortunate if it plays out that way.
I'd been hoping, but also slightly worried, that this would be an opportunity for Doucoure to demonstrate his potential to play for a top 6 club... in the event he was dreadful. He looked as if he were half-asleep or ill somehow, but the game just completely passed him by. Disappointing. Hopefully it'll at least reduce the chances of him getting snapped up later ha. Carrillo and Richarlison looked the two most competitive players against the opposition. The sooner we can get another centre back in to replace Mariappa the better, it was always going to be an uphill battle with him in the team. The inability to sign an upgrade at CB is continuing to look like a clear mistake. Why bring in Wague if he can't even get in the side when needed even ahead of Mapps?! Janmaat's lack of pace is a real problem for a RB against top opposition. He scored a good goal last week but I'd rather Femenia when fit. At least with Pereyra seemingly on the way back, and hopefully another CB being able to come back in for Mapps next week, things should get better again soon.
MoTD applied this exact same double standard in their discussion of ours and Utd's offside incidents as well.
Let's look at the team's performance. It's hard to talk about Saturday's game in any kind of rational way, as it was so heavily influenced by mistakes from the officials, but I'll do my best. City will always provide moments of magic to open you up. They play so quickly and intelligently. I do not remember one misplaced pass from them all afternoon, apart from an over hit ball in the 92 minute which went out of play. I only consider two of the goals scored on Saturday, in open play, as valid. The first was a real mess from us and this is something that will give Silva the biggest headache when analysing. I'm talking about the second City goal. We had Janmaat diving in and missing a challenge, Doucoure actually taking a couple of steps backwards when Silva made his run and poor positional play from Kabasele. You just don't leave Aguero unmarked in the box like that. The fourth goal was probably their best. It was good movement and a quality cross from Mendy, who was a menace all afternoon. It showed our vulnerability on the flanks. We had two players that just stood and allowed Mendy to get his cross in. There was no closing down. Once the ball was in flight, there was no one in there to head the ball out. The only surprise was that City didn't create more chances from crosses, although I suspect that's not really their game. We were weak defensively, but only by one player it could be argued. We did miss Prodl although Mariappa did as well as he could have. We didn't invest enough in the defensive area in the summer, and I feel it's something we need to address in January. Why is Wague here, if he cannot get into the side even when we're down to the bare bones? We've seen how good Chalobah and Doucoure have been this season, but they were totally ineffective on Saturday. That's is not their fault. They are both young and that would have been the hardest match of their careers when it came to facing such quality. Even Cleverley, who normally covers every blade of grass, was just chasing shadows all afternoon. I thought Richarlison did well though. Not so much with his direct running, but getting his head to the ball and generally being involved in our best moments. Carrillo didn't feature much in the highlights but he showed enough to tell me he's a good signing. Holebas is often very good a set-pieces. The ball he put in for Richalison was perfect. But his defensive positional play is often in question. It's easy for clever players to run in behind him. You can say the same about Janmaat. He's not a great defender, but does offer something going forward. I personally think we need better right across the backline if we are to progress as a EPL side. Finally the forward line. I feel extremely sorry for Okaka. Unless he's injured, he's not even making the match-day squad now. He was so effective against Liverpool, then has been totally discarded. Gray has been desperately disappointing, and I think he could well be dropped soon. He's struggling as the central striker and I just don't think that's his best position. He played most of his games wide right for Burnley and this is where he shone for them. I'd like to see Deeney or Okaka start against Swansea with Gray coming on for Carrillo in the second half, or a straight swap for the central striker against tiring legs.
Poor as the ref/linesman were, I think even the most one-eyed Watford fan would concede that the quality of the opposition was the most significant influence on the afternoon
Monday Morning the team have turned up for Silva's analysis and video about Saturdays game. Marco - "How are we feeling lads?" Team - "A bit sore and nursing a few mental scares boss to be fair..." Marco - "O.K let's watch the video" Team - "Sorry, is this Man City or Barcelona in disguise?" Marco - "It's Man City" Team - "Oh, we just wanted to make sure they didn't clone themselves into a different team" Marco - "So, are we all looking forward to the trip to the Liberty at the weekend? A real chance to put this behind us and power through to 40 points?" Team (Except Gray) - "Deffo boss!" Marco - "Andre, what is wrong?" Gray - Boss, some people on WFC Forums are giving me a hard time since I joined, is that normal?" Marco - "Well, fans always differ in view on a new player, start scoring some goals and your confidence will pick up and their overall views will change." Gray - "O.K then - Saturday comes I will prove to be the best striker this club has ever seen!!" Deeney - "Better than Luther Blissett?" Gray - "They will be saying 'Luther who?' come May..."
Monday Morning the team have turned up for Silva's analysis and video about Saturdays game. Marco - "How are we feeling lads?" Team - "A bit sore and nursing a few mental scares boss to be fair..." Marco - "O.K let's watch the video" Team - "Sorry, is this Man City or Barcelona in disguise?" Marco - "It's Man City" Team - "Oh, we just wanted to make sure they didn't clone themselves into a different team" Marco - "So, are we all looking forward to the trip to the Liberty at the weekend? A real chance to put this behind us and power through to 40 points?" Team (Except Gray) - "Deffo boss!" Marco - "Andre, what is wrong?" Gray - Boss, some people on WFC Forums are giving me a hard time since I joined, is that normal?" Okaka "Yeah cos ya **** m8" Marco - "Well, fans always differ in view on a new player, start scoring some goals and your confidence will pick up and their overall views will change." Okaka "I've scored a goal!" Gray - "O.K then - Saturday comes I will prove to be the best striker this club has ever seen!!" Okaka "Hahah good one, can I pleaseeee play?" Deeney - "Better than Luther Blissett?" Gray - "They will be saying 'Luther who?' come May..."[
I agree. I've had time to consider this defeat over the weekend and I still believe we were embarrassingly crap. We've barely a player earning less than a million pounds a year and it was 11 v 11. Swansea got a point v Spurs, it's not impossible to keep it respectable. Manager was naive, used subs poorly, Britos still costing us, recruitment failed to address the CB area, individual mistakes... Happy to move on to the next game now, but no more excuses.
Mariappa played a major part in that goal too. When Janmaat and Jesus collided they both went off the pitch and the ball was some distance from Jesus. Mariappa had to react, he had to do something - either get over there and win the ball or take Jesus out but he did absolutely nothing other than a gentle jog for two or three paces towards the ball, then back pedalled into the box, allowing Jesus to pick the pass under no pressure whatsoever.
