Team Firesale - Pozzo Out Vs Team Resigned Happy Clap

It’s a forum. Everything is public except the PM function - so I’ve ‘butted’ into nothing. If you want a private debate or conversation with someone, then the function is at your fingertips.

I never said you had left. I just found your irony quite funny.

I have many back-and-forth’s on here but 99% of them are good natured. Can you say the same? I think you’d be lying if you claim you can.

No wish to derail the thread - so as you were.

 

So, after you thinly disguised intervention, I replied in a friendly manner, and you just started having a go with no prompting from me in your direction! What constitutes "good natured" in your world?

 

No I’d say he isn’t, although one is being bought on what he might be able to do which could lead to him being better long term. Either way, my point is as valid as those who are using other fees to point to the Doucouré sale as being underpriced. It works both ways.

 

I’m ‘Team Gino’ as you put it due to what they have done up until now. I will always be thankful to them for giving us what they have.

In answer to your question, I’d want them gone if A) they got us bankrupt or B) if someone with more money and desire to provide us with more than they can wanted to buy the club and they refuse. Now don’t confuse that with my wish list of what Id like them to do. I want them to provide the manager with a promotion chasing squad, get us to the prem, keep us there and help us win our first major trophy.

So I’ll spin that question around and ask what will it take for the Pozzo out brigade to change their mind?

 

Good question actually. I’ll go with steadying the ship financially. Stop having Giraldi undermine every coach. Give Ivic a few seasons to build a squad and identity. Focus on player recruitment for the team and it’s positional needs rather than endless player trading. That would probably do me, even if we are still Championship.

 

All clubs outside the Prem are....thanks to Covid.

But we have parachute payments at least.

The squad will be weaker than last season, but yet to be seen how strong it will end up. I'm reserving judgement till then.

 

As someone said earlier we could not have chosen a worse time to get relegated, not that any time is good of course.

Why?

Because financially it could not have been worse thanks to the current C19 problems, hence the constant RUMOURS of a fire sale.

However, what we have to remember is that most clubs worldwide are probably in the same boat as us financially if not worse. Hence prices in the transfer market are depressed, though that of course means that despite potentially getting low prices on our saleable assets we should hopefully also be able to pick up a bargain or two on any purchases.

Having said that my personal preference, as I have said in earlier posts, would be to retain as many of our existing squad as possible, with a few exceptions, because I believe that most of those same players which admittedly were not good enough for the PL will be more than good enough at the lower level we find ourselves in, so why sell them now?

Therefore if the club really mean what they say and bouncing straight back up is what they intend us to do, then despite the current financial situation they MUST try to retain as many of our more established players as possible and the especially the best of our rising stars.

OK some of our players may have to be sold to help balance the books, but if they sell to many as it is being suggested they will, that is just short term thinking because the real money is in getting back to the PL where our finances should improve immensely. Hence we should go all out for promotion this season by keeping as many of our current playing staff as possible, then have the so called FIRE SALE to offload those guys who we know are no longer good enough for the PL at the end of this season once we have bounced back to the PREMIER LEAGUE.

Therefore for now I'm with Team on the Fence.

 

I'm very much in the Gino stays camp but I think he does need to change the way we do things. The changing of manager every 5 mins has worked to an extent as we spent 5 years in the Premier League but it has never sat well with me probably because the first ten years of supporting this club we had the same manager. I also feel the players know that if they kick up a fuss about a manager he will be gone which is not a good thing to have. Be more open with supporters. Where was the meetings with fans last season? These probably need to be held more often when things are not going well as that's when we have more questions. It would be nice to have player injury updates and what is actually wrong with them. Hughes is out till mid October but what's actually wrong with him. One last thing and this is very unlikely to happen, I would like the whole financial thing explained and why we have so much external debt. Not so much about the loans as I'm fairly sure that's quite common.

 

Why is there no poll category for those of us who follow Citeh?

 

Because it is on the Citeh website?

 

But Watford are my second team...

 

Waiting to see what happens, can see why we need to sell but we need decent replacements, hopefully players around the 22-23 years of age mark who will be capable of playing in the Prem when we get back there.

 

I was surprised at your conclusion that you are with Team on the Fence as I was sure you would be with TEAM ON THE FENCE.

 

I think we have seen for many seasons the schism in value of players you need to hit the quotas in the squad. Home grown players are ridiculously expensive if they have any merit.

so ultimately you have to judge our sales on a number of factors. But if we get the best price for a player who is not going to part of the future of the squad that’s good business. In that category you have a range. From the Richarlison’s through to the Assambalonga’s.

 

"We can't have players who don't want to be here. We don't want players treating training as a joke as that is not good for the environment"

Ngakia backing up the words of Ivic. Sounds like we really do have a small group of players who are adamant about not being here and are not willing to fight for the cause even for a few games until a move is sorted. What would people like Gino to do in this situation other than look to move these players on as quick as possible so they can be replaced? I agree with others saying if they're refusing to play they shouldn't be getting paid and I completely agree but we don't actually know for sure whether they are picking up their wage or not so harsh to use that as a criticism.

 

Ultimately teams of our financial standing tend to get relegated from the Premiership eventually, particularly when there's an influx of money into the league below ensuring clubs coming up such as Villa and Wolves can spend their way (along with astute managerial appointments in Wolves case) to safety. When you look at last season, there wasn't a glut of terrible clubs you would have guaranteed to cushion us from relegation at the start of the season. But clearly bad decisions were made last season, from disputes over the bonuses to where investment was made in the team, to managerial appointments.

To have been relegated when we were however was probably the worst timing ever. Covid will ensure a dampened transfer market so we're unlikely to receive the transfer fees we'd have hoped for, as well as significantly reducing all our non-television revenue streams, meaning we'll likely to have to find even more funds than we otherwise would have planned for in these circumstances. So to have any chance of balancing the books and ensuring the club remains solvent and around for more than the next couple of years, I expect investment to be curtailed and our most valuable assets to be sold. Obviously it's not good for the season ahead, but I'd rather us be a mid table championship side if that's how it's going to have to pan out than in administration and floundering to even guarantee the future existence of the club.

 

We need enough quality left or purchased to have a shot at promotion this season.

After that it only gets harder to get back up.

Promotion would immediately ease our financial worries, nothing else will (bar a rich new investor)

 

Seems unlikely to me they are all refusing to play. I suspect it's more a case of them being of the "I want a move, I don't want to be here" camp, and the club's new stance being "OK then, you can train by yourself because that attitude breeds unrest. Let us know if you change your mind."

I've seen enough negative people in the employment environment over the years that I'm now aware of the damage a group of demotivated people can do to team morale. The club is (belatedly) correct to keep bad influences away from the rest of the squad.

Vlad is never going to be able to turn things around if a core of want-away players aren't buying into the club's goals; they will be undermining everything he tries to do with their negativity and lack of desire.

 

I’d say the Foster mess up for the goal just before that...

 

I suppose you could call me a clapper . In reality I’m just not getting carried away with stuff I know little about . This forum has become a bit of a parody of itself lately with almost every thread that is posted coming with accusations of mismanagement, incompetence, arrogance , toxicity etc etc and of course the old ‘mercenary’ cliche . The owners are accused of doing ‘unforgiveable ‘things all the time.

For me this all seems to be based on runour and conjecture . I of course don’t know the Pozzos any better than anyone else on here ,so I find it strange myself how inclined I am to defend them . But it’s because a) they’ve given me one hell of a fun ride over the last few years b) most of what they are accused of doesn’t seem to be proven and c) They aren’t here to defend themselves ( though I do think they could help themselves a lot more if they communicated better with fans.

People accusing the management of being arrogant is strange as I imagine most of these people don’t know them and have never met them .

They haven’t done anything ‘ unforgivable ‘ of course because the only things I couldn’t forgive them for would be be putting the very existence of the club in danger ( which again my, there is no evidence they have done )

Let’s face it, the worst thing that has happened under their ownership is relegation from the premier league and now possibly finishing mid table which is pretty much where we started when they took over anyway . So we’ve had a good ride and either it could be over or well come back strong and get promoted first time.

 

Back stronger.

 

I don't even think it's as simple as 'I want a move'. There will have been some realistic chats with players about how the club would be happy for them to move on to lower the wage bill. And in any case, Deeney, Capoue, Hughes, Deulofeo and a few others have been injured. They wouldn't be playing now whatever eventually happens. The thought is definitely to keep the squad tight rather than expend effort on players who may end up leaving, but any good player can be incorporated.

 

Another factor which may have influenced the decision to start with a small tight group is Ivic was on his own for the first couple of weeks before his assistants arrived. It would have been impractical for him to work with 30+ players, far better to leave the sick and injured and want away's with fitness and other staff and focus on the playable team.

 

I think a simple In/ Out poll would be much more interesting.

The club have decided that the current polarisation cannot continue, and let the fans decide on the future of the Pozzos ownership. In and they continue; Out and they sell to anyone who is willing to pay their asking price.

As of this morning, I'm in. I think we have a decent enough squad for the Championship, and if you look at clubs with an equivalent size/fanbase to us (Brentford, QPR, Wigan etc.), then we seem to be pretty close to the top of the pile. Fulham will get relegated, which essentially leaves Brighton, who have a very good set up but seem to be treading water in the bottom quarter of the table, and Palace (who are admittedly doing quite well), as clubs which are clearly ahead of us in the whole of the English leagues.

Sure, the Pozzos are far from perfect, and we definitely regressed last season. But we have a seemingly good manager and some good players, and even if we don't get promoted this year, I think we'll be in the Premier League sooner rather than later. Unless a billionnaire with previous sports experience is willing to step in, I'm not sure many owners would fill me with the same confidence.

 

I’ve held on to my tong for a while here but how can anyone still defend Pozzo after what’s happened. They’re appalling toxic management and holding on to the mersenrys had led to Watford having one of the worst squads I’ve ever seen. And this is it , this is wot we’re going to be supposedly going for promotion with . Pathetic! They can hardly even pass the ball to each other.


They have also been lying to us over again . It’s disgusting and almost criminal how they treat us fans . Unforgivable. They need to go. We are on the far track to league one . That’s the way we are heading Zx

if you’re defending Pozzo you are naeeve to the extreme !

 

Brilliant!

 

T

Thanks it needed saysing

 

A fairly good parody of some on here. A little too on the nose at times, but otherwise well done.

 

Great post. 100% unironically agree..

 

Moong and going down are only ones on my waive length

 

You're one of the only intelligent posters left on here.

 

What’s a parody ?looked it up and says comic work . This isn’t a joke it’s my football club

 

Thanks but I know I’m not the brainiest . I have passion though what some people lack

 

Pashun*