Blimey! I wasn’t expecting much from today , but that was worse than last week ( at least we had a spell of pressure in the 2nd half and passed it around a bit ) . We started off every bit as badly as last week and if we’d been playing almost any side other than Brighton would have been at least 2-0 down at half time . Our passing was dreadful. I lost count how many occasions we screwed up a simple ball and kicked it into touch etc ( Castillo particularly guilty). What has happened to this team . Only a couple of months ago we were making Chelsea look Decidely average ,now we look even worse than the Mazari watford ( at least we were capable of grinding out a result against a poor premier league team then ). I was literally shouting at my screen when silva brought Sinclair on . Why the hell not just get Okaka o and go two up front and play get it forward early if nothing else if working . It’s almost like he’s so bloody stubborn that he won’t give okaka a chance and would rather lose than give him some decent game time . I am just holding out hope that we get Doucoure /Hughes/Zeegelaar/Femenia back we will pick up some form. I am worried about the Leicester game as I fear they may destroy us.
It was every bit as bad as expected This side will go down unless drastic action is taken, right now we are the worst side in the league, the players don't look like they believe it or care and this all stems from Silva That **** has to go He should have gone last week
I know he works hard but **** me Cleverley is costing us some points recently. In his last two games, him slicing the ball straight up in the air has been the pivotal moment of the game. Add to that the missed pen at Everton and failing to take a yellow for the team by pulling Lingard down and he's really made some big balls up recently. If we ever get them all fit again, the midfield three has to be Chalobah, Doucoure, Hughes with Cleverley on the bench.
This all makes dismal reading. Got what we deserved by all reports. Boxing Day maybe very unpleasant,I can't see anything other than a loss. Which brings Swansea. Correctly or not this may be Silva's last chance. A Merry Christmas to you all,I cannot foresee a 'Happy' one tonight.
Got to agree with you, and before that Everton game there was a lot of talk of him getting his place back in the England squad .
The bloke believes his own myth, we have been crap since Everton came sniffing around and his lack of putting it to be bed has bled into the squad. Why should they care if the manager doesn't? He needs to get at least three points out of Swansea or Leicester otherwise he is on a knifes edge.
I dont think it does stem from Silva. The same was said about the team last year with the likes of Holebas, Watson, JanMaat, Capoue etc and now this season those players are back in the squad the same accusations of attitude/not caring are being raised again. I notice that bickering with the officials and the collective shrug of the shoulders when we go behind is back again as well. The attitude problem has reared its head under too many successive managers now for it to be just down to Silva - there's clearly some bad apples in the squad & the culture among the players is wrong. There's a dire lack of leaders both on and off the pitch for starters. When we went a goal down I didnt see anyone on my river trying to galvanize the team or lead by example and take the game by scruff of its neck. I dont think sacking Silva is the answer but he isnt helping himself with the system he's picking or the subs he's making. For what its worth I'm not sure he will be with us too much longer anyway. When the camera panned to him after the final whistle he had the look of someone resigned to his fate.
It's hard to know where to start, or finish for that matter. Brighton could have had 4 or 5 quite easily. On another day Kabesele could easily have been sent off just before half time as he was pulled out of position covering for Janmaat once again. Even if we don't play to Grays strength you expect him to control the ball and hold it up, rather than letting it bounce off him and straight back to the opposition. Simply giving the ball back is just piling pressure on to the defence. Our crossing was woeful, passing non existent, we lacked creativity, width, pace and as for the defence, **** Vardys pace and City attack will have a field day. The scary thing is that Silva doesn't look like he knows how to change things. Joka made a change last time we went to Brighton after about 20 minutes because we were being over run. Silva really didn't have a scooby about what or how he was was going to change. Worrying !
i thought last week was bad think ill stop going to the away games and might just not bother on Tuesdays the players just can be bothered so why should i
Silva just sits there and watches the pressure put on the team time and again. He looks like he really can't be arsed. Whether we stay up or not he will not be coach next season.
Agree. I put the effort to go today but the team put no effort in at all. Just don't get what Perayra gives to the team. Keeps getting real robbed off the ball constantly. Not saying he was the worst one today but he's as creative as Jurado.
It was a shocker, no doubt, but I am less concerned than I was last season. We do have a better all-round squad, we do have a better coach, and we play better football. But we obviously have confidence issue and that is easier to sort out than lack of quality. We havn't suddenly lost our ability, we have lost our confidence. It is no coincidence that our only player to retain his form is Doucoure, whose game is built around getting forward quickly with and without the ball and shooting from distance - it is the only way he can play. Compare him with the likes of Pererya who can be exceptional -and has just lost his mojo completely since his injury. He ducks out of a challenge every time and doesn't even attempt anything anymore. But our lack of goalscorer is still our biggest issue. I said months ago that we cannot rely on the midfield and wide players to keep getting the goals as they will dry up, and so it has proved. We have no one who can grab a goal out of nothing, confidently take a chance, or use a bit of pace to create his own chance (with the exception of the knackered Richy). That lack of goal threat means that we have less options going forward - that fact alone just piles on the pressure to hold the ball or pass back, and the pressure starts again, there is less fear in our oppositions defence meaning they are more positive and any mistake we make at the back is magnified in importance - again creating more pressure. That is why we look like a team devoid of confidence. It will come back.
I am thoroughly disappointed in how our recent results have gone but I am not going to get too panicked just yet. Life is not easy with so many players unavailable and today you only had to look at the match day squad to see that we are currently scraping the barrel. I know it is the Management teams and ultimately Marco Silva’s job to find a solution but I honestly looked at the squad 10 minutes prior to the match and thought to myself we aren’t getting anything here. I really think that people need to get off Silva’s back we have been so unfortunate to have the amount of injuries and suspensions that we currently have. If this bad run coincides with Everton’s interest then how do you explain the 2-0 wins against West Ham or the 3-0 away at Newcastle, the draw with Tottenham which may have been a win if the referee never bottled the red card? I actually thought we played well away at Burnley and looked like winning until the sending off, probably would have held on at Crystal Palace as well if Cleverley had used his brain. Leicester game: Hughes, Doucoure & Zeegalaar back, Thankfully there is only one more game to go until January and we can bring in another striker because the ones we have never look like scoring.
I've watched the Burnley v Spurs match, officiated by Michael Oliver. Once again he's sided with the bigger side in all the controversial decisions. There was a heavy challenge by Dele Alli, where he's run at pace, just like Deeney last week, but this time he sees it as a yellow card. Later on Alli clearly dives, after minimal contact in the box for the penalty which sets up the Spurs win. The first goal in games is always so important. It was something that he could have justifiably seen as a dive, and that would have been Alli's second yellow. But of course he gives the penalty. Ok, all this has nothing to do with Watford's game today, but it just goes to show, it depends on the player and club, rather than the actual incident as to what the referee will give. We will always suffer with decisions going against us more often than not because we are unfashionable. Now on to todays game. An obvious defeat, just like Boxing Day will be, so it's largely a waste of time playing any games right now. I saw the worrying trend after the Palace game, and many give me plenty of stick for calling it like it was. Now, I think everyone can see it. For me, Silva maybe making light of the Everton situation, but I think it plays a big part. How can he demand commitment from players, when he's shown absolutely none himself? I think once something like this occurs, it's only ever going to go one way. I believe Chalobah has been a big loss for us, but we're not exactly fielding a team of academy players are we. They may not be our first choice, but they are not dreadful players. The trouble is, Silva wants to play this high tempo, passing game in midfield and it works well when you have Dourcoure, Chalobah and Cleverley to play it. Take one of those elements away, then we struggle. Hughes can come in and play a part, but Capoue or Watson cannot. They just do not have the legs to play that way. There are players in the squad that have done quite well in the past, but really need to move on. They are part of the problem now. When the chips are down, who are the ones that want to change things? Very few have shown real commitment recently, and this is a very worrying trend. I think Silva lit the fuse, and what we are seeing now is an inevitable conclusion. Do I think we will be relegated? No sure, but I would say probably no, even now. The only reason I think this is because I believe we will have a good January window, plus our injured players will finally return at some point. That should, hopefully be enough for us to stay up, but I think Silva's handling of the Everton approach was dreadful and will be his undoing. We need a head coach that's fully committed to the cause, so that players can believe in him.
In truth we were probably never as good as our early season hype led many to dare hope, or quite as bad as our recent slump suggests, but there’s no doubt this is a very depressing and worrying time, and I’m finding it hard to remain among the more cheerful members of this forum. Today was woeful. No excuses. We lost six in a row at the end of last season, but that run included fixtures against some decent sides including the champions. This recent malaise has seen us lose to a couple of newly promoted sides and implode spectacularly against Palace. Before that we managed to blow a 0-2 lead to an Everton side in hopeless form under a hapless caretaker manager. Incidentally they’ve not lost since abandoning their quest for Silva while we’ve not won since we knew he definitely wasn’t going to Goodison. Coincidence? No doubt January will bring new recruits, but can any of us be that confident we will sign wisely and strengthen, as opposed to the more usual tale of hotchpotch addition? The squad continues to look woefully unbalanced. We are now half way through the season and our forwards have scored three goals from open play between them. The defence remains a shambles. Midfield is our strong area but too often weakened by injuries and self-inflicted suspensions. Last summer seemed to indicate a change of policy by going for British talent rather than players from overseas for whom Watford is just another stamp on their passport, but clearly there’s still work to do to try and get an ‘all for one, hearts really in the club’ attitude among the whole squad. I won’t be hipocritical and blow with the wind. I welcomed Silva. I thought he was decent. Early results backed this up. But there was something not very right at all about his conduct during the Everton rumours and it would be naive to think this hadn’t some effect on what’s happened on the pitch of late. How else to explain such a dip from the wins over Arsenal, Southampton, Bournemouth, Newcastle etc? Silva can be the biggest **** in the world if we are winning. He can appear as arrogant or distant as he wishes as long as we are winning. He can do all the interviews he wants saying things we don’t want to hear or not saying what we do wish to hear, as long as we are winning. He can leave out your favourite player or mine each week as long as we are winning. But we’re not. And the next few fixtures offer no guarantee either. A Leicester side good of late on the road, followed by a side who may have a new manager in situ by then followed by a team who may well have won 20 in a row when we visit their fortress. We are in trouble and a blip easily becomes a crisis in this unforgiving league. We need to go back to basics, have a decent well-thought through transfer window, show the door to those whose performances or/and attitudes don’t come up to scratch, and remember what we were doing right during the opening few weeks of the season. That will take cool heads, hard work and commitment by all, players, backroom staff, recruitment team and importantly the head coach. It’s not impossible. But it’s not a given either.
Yes, there are players out there who are cowards - watch Carillo and Pereyra challenge, for example; 'they don't like it up 'em'. This translates not just into giving the ball away too much, but also to players over-compensating and going in badly and conceding fouls, yellows and reds. Carillo and Richarlison look exhausted to me. Carillo needs further instructions, he has a lot of ability. Too many times a player on the ball ends up looking around and beckoning for somebody to do something off the ball to make options for him. Players frantically gesticulating at each other for set pieces. Gray and Deeney get a lot of stick - but are they being used correctly? Watford's defensive frailties seem too well known by other teams now. Brighton's lack of goals is surely because they haven't got a striker worthy of the name except for an ageing Murray. The number of times the ball streaked across in front of Watford's goal, inviting a poacher in, was frightening.
Can't be bothered to discuss the match in detail. We lost, deservedly. Could easily have been by more. By why have we turned to utter crap? Our form earlier in the season was decent. Even when we didn't win, we looked a good side. One of our best performances was against Southampton - neat passing, powerful, athletic and fast. It keeps being mentioned (by the coach and some fans) that injuries and suspensions are costing us. Yet the starting eleven that day at Southampton wasn't that different from this afternoon: v Southampton - v Brighton Gomes - Gomes Holebas - Holebas Kabasele - Kabasele Kaboul - Pr*dl Femenía - Janmaat Chalobah - Watson Cleverley - Cleverley Doucoure - Pereyra Carrillo - Carrillo Richarlison - Richarlison Gray - Gray And bear in mind - Janmaat replaced Kiko and scored a cracking goal. Are we crap lately because Deeney is rubbish now? Didn't play today, so blameless this afternoon. Are we crap because Gray is useless? Played against Southampton when we were good (and in our other earlier good performances). Are we crap because Pr*dl can't defend? General consensus amongst most fans is that he's one of our best defenders. Similar to Kaboul in level of ability, just lacks his pace. Are we crap now because Pereyra is a shadow of the player he was before injury? Well he wasn't playing earlier in the season when we were decent, so his loss of form can't be the reason why the team is now plop. Unless it means he should be dropped completely? Are we crap because Hughes is missing? He wasn't involved when we were playing decently. Are we crap now because Richarlison's decent form was papering over the cracks? Possibly. The lad needs a break, no question. But I'm absolutely certain that if the team were playing like they were earlier in the season, he'd also recapture that spring in his step that seems to have faded slightly. Us being useless right now isn't down to him, imo. The only glaring difference between the two teams is the absence of Chalobah and Doucouré. Was our early success really all down to them being in the middle of the park? Of course Doucouré has been playing since, but without his mate alongside him, he has seemed to be doing more work than is necessary for one player (because we've needed him to). Perhaps his suspension today is a blessing - if anybody needed a rest, he did. Stating the bleedin' obvious that he was sorely missed today. So is it simply all down to Silva then? Has he lost interest since the Everton debacle? Surely he's aware that if he wants a better job, he simply must have a decent season here. Duxbury stated firmly that we don't sack coaches mid season in the Prem - well that's about to be firmly put to the test should we lose our next two (which will mean 1 million% the next 3, being as it's Citeh). I've admitted to being a fan of Silva; stated I prefer him over Dyche - so I'm desperately hoping he turns this around. But the most worrying thing at the moment is the Watford team that beat Brighton 0-2 in that famous game a few years back would currently beat this Watford team - despite being hugely inferior in regards to individual talent. I'm starting to worry that something has happened behind the scenes and all is not well. I'll end this doom and gloom post with a doom and gloom, festive prediction - we'll be the first premier league side to lose by 10 when we go to Man City...........
The last few posts have been excellent. Palace can be written off as a bad day at the office, but Huddersfield and Brighton have been catastrophic. A blip caused by unavailability or a permanent collapse n morale or temporary loss of confidence? The next two games, and the one after Citeh, should tell us which.
Brighton knew exactly how to close us down, and we didn't know how to deal with really basic tactics. As others have said, we have players out there today who are not good enough for the Premier League. It's also clear that our confidence and belief is low. We are top of the injury league, Brighton are bottom - and they really played like a team, and Hughton has got them well organised and motivated. Nice place Brighton, nice stadium - shame about the squeeze down the funnel into the train to get away...
I like the comparison you've made between the two teams. As I believe that Southampton performance was our most accomplished of the season. They just did not have a sniff against us all afternoon in that game. For me, the big stand out changes from the two sides are Chalobah and Doucoure. These are exceptional players and most sides would miss these two, but there's not a lot of difference between the two sides, which is quite alarming. It was our midfield that made us tick though, and without this we are not even ordinary, we are quite poor, but I don't believe we should be as bad as we are. I think the main missing ingredient, apart from Chalobah and Dourcoure, is heart, desire, commitment and a willingness to work hard. Maybe some excuses could have been made during our poor run before Huddersfield, but the level of performance in the last two matches tell a very different story. Brighton were winless for 7 weeks, hadn't scored a goal in open play for over 10 hours, yet find it relatively to beat us. 1-0 was a bit of a fluke result really, as the gulf between both sides was much larger. The same can be said against Huddersfield. Yes we did get a couple of predictable bad decisions against us, but a 4-1 home defeat to a side that had not scored a single away goal since the opening day!!...really. We are a charity case right now. It seems any team can beat us, no matter how bad their recent form is. Although I know Watford have played very well away at times, I have yet to see a good home performance. Right now, we are in a real mess. It's as bad as anything Mazzarri did and this should not be happening.
To get a hat trick, you need to score three goals. I doubt he'll achieve that in a season, let alone one game.
That City game is beginning to look seriously frightening just now. We were on top of our game when we played them earlier and took them on at their own game. We were trounced 0 - 6. Yes I know there were some bad decisions then but that could happen again; and we haven't got a defence to fall back on so we can't park the bus. Uh oh....
Chalk and cheese: Our counter attacking at breakneck speed at the beginning of the season vs our current attacks which looks like their boots are stuck in treacle Silva’s positive pitch side manner vs his current gormless look Richarlison early form vs his current fatigued self Confident players vs those who don’t want the ball My enthusiasm vs current disinterest On a different note, really liked the Amex stadium and quite liked the pre match build up. Would hate to have to queue for a train every game though
We're only good when we move the ball quickly and catch the opposition out of position. At the start of the season we had Chalobah anchoring the midfield, Doucoure going box to box and Cleverley pressing high up the pitch and it was a perfect combination. We were moving the ball forward quickly but on the floor, winning it back higher up the pitch and had an athletic midfield getting up and down. Take one of the three out and it doesn't work so well. Take two out of the three out and we're stuffed. I think Silva then stumbled across a different formation that worked when he reluctantly promoted Will Hughes due to injuries and he started playing well. He's not as dynamic as the other three but his use of the ball is better than anyone else in our squad. It's little things like the weight of his passes being so good that overlapping wing backs don't have to break stride so the attack keeps going and the opposition don't get that key moment to set themselves. With Hughes playing on the right, we could get away with just Doucoure and Cleverley as he would drift inside and make it into a midfield three when we had the ball. Then he got injured and we couldn't play that way either. Without him the 3-4-3 didn't work as we were outnumbered in the middle of the pitch. We're now a stodgy, predictable team. Capoue and Watson take two or three extra touches than Hughes or Chalobah to play even simple passes. It kills all of our momentum and Cleverley isn't good enough in the deeper role that he's been forced into. It has a knock-on effect for players like Carrillo who is pretty much brain dead but can run fast into spaces when we attack at pace. Put him up against a defence that is in position and he's useless. Teams can afford to double up on Richarlison as we take so long to get the ball to him. Gray can't play with a slow build up, he doesn't have the technique and Pereyra only looks good when he is afforded space these days. It seems strange to say it with so many central midfielders on our books but I think we need to get another one in during January. Capoue and Watson are just names on a squad list, they can't play the type of football we want to so they might as well leave.
So why talk about it? Did you just need to vent about some refereeing injustice when Watford weren't involved in one?
...because I wanted to. It ties in with decisions going favourably for bigger clubs, but similar incidents being judged completely differently for others. It adds weight to the argument, not that too many need convincing of this.
Couldn't agree more. Said he should go as soon as he didn't commit during the Everton interest. West Ham win just papered over the cracks. All aboard the sinking ship.
