Brighton v Watford

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by EB Hornet, Dec 21, 2017.

  1. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’ve laboured this point for a few weeks now, but I’ll do it again. This season Is eerily reminiscent of last season, the same thing is happening in almost the exact same way. Wally had a ridiculous amount of injuries, yet he failed to ADAPT to the situation and Silva is doing the exact same thing. Both teams seem incapable of even basic defending, surely both coaches were/are capable of being able to set the team up to defend? Both coaches have their philosophies, but as the injuries and suspensions rack up surely they are capable of adjusting this to get a result? It’s a massive cliche, but it’s a results business, can Silva not look at the players he’s got at his disposal and the opposition we are due to play and set us up to get some sort of result? It seems like he is going blindly into each game making no allowances for the players he has on the pitch and the opposition we are playing expecting to see something different to the previous game. Unfortunately this is the big difference between coaches like Wally and Silva and coaches like Allardyce. Allardyce will look at the players he’s got and the team they are playing and set them up to be as effective as they can be, Silva and Wally can only perform when they have a fully fit squad and the results are flowing, they don’t look at each game and think how can we get a result here, that’s great when you are getting results but at the moment we aren’t and we really need to start thinking about putting points on the board, irrespective of how.
     
  2. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    In a totally different work context I have to deal with people who are significantly are underperforming compared to their capabilities. I really think Silva is a good coach, but that at the moment he is exhibiting the behaviour of a demotivated employer. There is a context in terms of the current players available for selection. But he really needs to get over it and start showing how he can coach the players to make more than the dum of the parts. To be fair I did not personally see the Burnley game, and since Everton I would say only Huddersfield and Yesterday at Brighton were poor performances. I thought we looked good value for a win at Palace until the last 8 minutes. I hope he does well for the rest of the season. Not just for us but for myself
     
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  3. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It's amazing what confidence can do. That front 4 were cutting teams to shreds away from home a few games ago. One shot on target yesterday at a very poor Brighton. It's difficult to see where the next point is going to come from having lost to CP, Huddersfield and Brighton in the last 3. 2 months ago we were eyeing the top 6. All very depressing. Bloody Everton.
     
    dynamo380 likes this.
  4. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    It wasn't the result or performance that annoyed me, it was sort of what I expected given the last few matches and the injuries/suspensions. When (if) we get our start of the season team back we'll be ok.

    No, it was a few of our fans who got my goat yesterday. As you looked at the pitch, I was top right corner in the small section of three rows at the side. In the back row were 8-10 blokes who spent the match screaming that all our players were useless each time we lost the ball or didn't do exactly what their superior football brains wanted. Ok, given the poor play you could understand their sentiments to an extent but not enough to justify their tirade of abuse. When they scored, one particular ****** (looked early middle-aged, wearing an oh-so-amusing Christmas jumper over his fat belly that had the word 'beer' spelt with two pint glasses instead of the 'ee's - see, really hilarious...) well he spent the next minute or so screaming abuse at Gomes, who was apparently a 'f@ckin c@nt', several times. A few minutes later he called those of us around him 'f@ckin c@nts without any passion' several times for not joining in his singing - which half the time was with made-up lyrics, most words beginning with f and c, surprizingly. It also seems that 'passionate support' means taking your seat 5 minutes late, leaving 5 minutes before half time and retaking your seat nearly 15 minutes into the second half because of the need to consume beer. Oh and half the crew left before the end. Real passion there, lads!

    Now I don't mind swearing, singing or having a few drinks, but pack them altogether with his vile and vitriolic abuse to anyone but himself and what you have is a disgrace to the club and to humankind. no point remonstrating with him but I did give him a few hard stares (very brave of me, I know!) but to no avail. At one time I did consider reporting him to the stewards for homophobia when he sang about 'Brighton homos'. If any of you know him, please tell him that he is a ****.

    Ok, rant over. Time to start steeling myself for a big Boxing Day defeat!
     
  5. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Silva must now have a very average record as a manger in the Premier league? I can’t seem to find the stats but it would be interesting to see who he directly compares to. He had nothing to lose at Hull and despite improving them and showing a lot of promise, they still went down. He’s also showed some real promise with us, but he’s also looked terrible for some time now. When all is said and done he’s not achieved anything and his record is only going one way.
     
  6. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    Well let’s be honest what the team needs now is a decent rest so we can regroup and figure out what’s going wrong , unfortunately we are playing in two days time so likely to get beaten again.

    Only positive is that hopefully we will see Doucoure , Zeegelaar and Hughes back
     
  7. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Squad Player

    It's always mystified me as to who these people are and what they get out of it. I remember going to an away game at Crewe years ago and the bloke next to me spent the whole game screaming and frothing at the mouth at the Crewe full back playing near where we sat.

    Not one Watford song, not one positive noise and didn't appear to be following the game.

    Probably spent the evening bragging about it in his local then went home and cried himself to sleep.
     
  8. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I think I read on the WO page that Prodl and Kabasele don't get on.
    I played with a few of people in club,county or international matches that I didn't like too much and you just get on with it and find a way for the team.
    I find all these match summaries deeply concerning.
    It seems to me that the Everton debacle has infected the whole squad,together with the injuries and loss of form for Gray,Pereyra,Prodl and now it seems, Gomes.
    I really couldn't have predicted this rapid decline after the Spurs match but clearly something is toxic,not just a lack of confidence.
    There seems to be no strategy and no cohesion and I'm not sure Gino will give Silva the transfer window.
     
  9. ChipperfieldHornet

    ChipperfieldHornet Academy Graduate

    The last two performances have been our worst of the season and it's especially frustrating because we know this team is capable of better. However, as some others have said, some of the vitriol being directed at Silva and the players is remarkable.

    I think we've played well all season and looked like a top 10 candidate in every game until Huddersfield and Brighton. It seems a combination of injuries/suspensions, Richarlison getting marked out of games and lost morale after unfortunate defeats at Burnley and Palace have affected performances. In particular, we fought so hard at Burnley with ten men, and were still able to pick ourselves up for Palace. It was a great away performance at Selhurst Park for 85 mins, 1-0 up and they didn't have a shot on target, then five minutes changed everything and it looks like it's affected the team.

    I wish people would stop getting on the back of players and Silva who've all had good seasons so far. They need our support to get out of the first bad run of the season. I think we really miss Doucoure and Cleverley, especially when Hughes and Chalobah are injured, so we'll look more solid against Leicester. The list of unavailable players yesterday was Hughes/Chalobah/Deeney/Kaboul/Kike/Zeegelaar/Cathcart/Doucoure, that's nearly a full team and I would put at least four or five into our best XI.

    Also, I'm not sure why I'm seeing a lot of people call Silva tactically inflexible, they must have forgotten Quique quickly. He's been moving between a back four and back five, and a front three or a front four. He's been moving between Deeney and Gray based on the opposition and how high a line they will play if you read his comments. He's made proactive changes in the last two games but when you look at the options on the bench it isn't hard to see why it hasn't worked in changing the game. The only thing he hasn't tried is two up top but that neither plays to our strengths in personnel, nor is it particularly viable in this league (how many others side play two up top? Can't think of any off the top of my head, it leaves you too short in midfield.)

    Finally, it's amusing how players become better when they're not playing. The calls for Okaka and ironic cheering when he comes on are ridiculous. Okaka is just as one dimensional as Gray/Deeney, the problem isn't Silva not playing him, the problem is more that none of our strikers are that good (at least compared to our quality in midfield.) I hope after he managed to put it both wide and over from two yards with the last kick of the game people might accept that the problem isn't Silva not playing him, it's that we lack the quality in that position which we enjoy elsewhere.

    The next two games are massive, win them or at least get four points and we're on 26/28 and things are looking far rosier again. I don't we played badly at all this season when Doucoure and Cleverley have played together so there is hope.
     
  10. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    This is very rational Chipperfield and well argued.
    However what concerns me and probably a fair few others,is the rapid decline in effort and application in such a short time.
    I recognise that it is very difficult for players coming in to pick up the pace of the game,Watson is the prime example here,but surely the coach has a default setting for times such as these?
    Silva appears lost at this juncture and that,together with the lack of leadership on the pitch,is very damning.
    I do hope you are correct but I smell fear and athletes,especially in team games, can easily split into factions when times are hard.
    Time for Silva to lead. His whole career path may well depend on the next two games.
     
  11. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    So what if we don't get four points from our next two games? Does that make the rest of your post irrelevant?
     
  12. Nuandy

    Nuandy Academy Graduate

    It feels like the season turned in the 87th min at Sellhurst Park
    We was the better team At Burnley until the red card We did ok Against a very good united team and a good point against spurs But the last 2 games and 5 mins at palace have just been woeful lets hope Hughes is back for Tuesday
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  13. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I bet heavily against us, and would have been quids in if I didn’t combine the bet with other matches. Very annoyed that I was too greedy.

    Let’s not be in any denial. We are free falling. We will always concede, and we will struggle to score without a remotely adequate striker. We are very much in a relegation fight if we do not bring in a PL striker.

    As I said in another thread a month or so ago - of course we need a striker, despite at the time scoring goals all over pitch. Sometimes you need a bit of quality to win a game like today. We had absolutely none. We are dire to watch right now.

    I honestly preferred Walt’s football to this. It reminds me of Zola’s final few games. It’s going to be a huge transfer window for Gino et al.
     
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  14. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Despite the negativity, can I just say the space Gray made today was outstanding. Just watch him potter around in circles, with nobody near him and nobody daring to pass it to him due to his non-league first touch.

    It’s just a shame that our players consistently never manage to find him, and only him. Bad luck I guess. Otherwise, those channels wouldn’t know what hit them.

    (Mods - appreciate it if you let me know when the next match day thread is up and I’ll C&P)
     
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  15. Oscar calling

    Oscar calling Squad Player

    Even if you are correct in your assessment that Okaka is no better than Deeney and Gray, why is it that the latter two players have had so much playing time and the former virtually none? Personally, I think Okaka is way better than Gray and more mobile than Deeney.

    Unfortunately Silva's arrogance means he puts personal grudges ahead of the good of the team.
     
    Whippendell Woods likes this.
  16. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    I honestly believe that if Andre Gray was still playing now, on the pitch by himself, he still wouldn’t be able to make enough space to receive the ball and hit it into the empty net.

    The only positive is that Nathan Ellington is no longer the worst signing we’ve ever made. At least his name can now be wiped from the record books.

    He’s absolutely atrocious. I’m not even kidding when I say that Amrabat would be better up front than Gray. And please don’t confuse that as a compliment for the former.
     
    WatfordTalk and Bloke like this.
  17. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    The fact that Silva brought Sinclair on before Oakha yesterday, doesn’t suggest but, confirms the fact he is utterly clueless
     
  18. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’m personally going to reserve judgement on the Okaka situation, as none of us know the full situation so how can we comment. It’s fairly obvious something happened behind closed doors. What if they had a argument and Okaka said something disrespectful to Silva? What is he supposed to do then? Surely he has to have a line somewhere with regards to discipline and he can’t be seen to be weak etc. Obviously I’m wildly speculating, but I think it’s safe to assume there is a reason that he’s always spent large spells out of the team.
     
  19. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Reservist

    The Okaka situation is weird. Yes if Okaka did something so out of order then by all means freeze him out but why put him on the bench and only give him 15 mins .if you’re gonna play him give him a proper chance to influence the game , unless he’s literally just toying with him which is weird
     
  20. I've heard from someone supposedly ITK that Okaka said something derogatory about Silva's wife. How much truth there is in it I have no idea.
     
  21. Necrobutcher

    Necrobutcher Reservist

    It's rubbish. Silva has no wife.
     
  22. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Reservist

    I heard that Okaka suggested that Sam Allardyce was a better manager than Silva
     
  23. Like I said, no idea. Girlfriend? Boyfriend?
     
  24. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Maybe a big fine then?
     
  25. Shakespearo

    Shakespearo Reservist

    What if a player p’eed on the manager’s rug on a fit of unchecked aggression and mistaken identity? Should Gino compensate the manager to avoid the player being dropped?
     
  26. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Spot on. He took a swipe at the ball, trying to knock it forward immediately (and aimlessly) on the half volley and missed it. The ball hit his standing leg and skewed to the nearest Brighton player. The pass from Kabasele didn't cause that to happen. Clev's poor judgement did. He had plenty of time to take a touch and cost us the goal by not doing so.
     
  27. Sting

    Sting Squad Player

    I generally liked your post and positive attitude and normally would not be quite so negative towards our manager at this stage of the season. However in this case I really feel something has happened that we the fans are being kept in the dark about. Did Silva ask the Pozzos if he could speak to Everton and was refused and forbidden even to speak of it? We will find out in time I suspect. Whatever - Silva has not been the same manager since Everton came poaching. If he was trying to get sacked by January he could do no more than he is doing - it would be one way of rescuing his reputation as he could plead he was not given the time to sort things out - and we all know wicked Watford are gung ho with their managers.
    Just one thing - have a look at the statistics. Take out the first four good games and we have averaged only a point per game - that is relegation contenders for 15 out of 19 games - and in the last 11 we have only 7 points from 33. That is not a good season so far - it was a good four early games.
     
  28. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Heard Okaka made up a fake Tinder profile and matched with Marco. They chatted for ages but fell out over who got the bill during the date.
     
    Shakespearo likes this.
  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I think it's unfair to say Cleverley cost us the goal because if his poor touch. A lot of other things happened before and after that before the ball was in our net.

    It started with Gomes. He was under no pressure, and could have chosen to launch it forward. He chose to pass to Kabasele, who again was under no pressure. He could have hit the ball long, but passed to Cleverley, who had two players close to him, so it wasn't the smartest pass to have made. At this point Cleverley HAS to play the ball quickly as he knows there are two Brighton players in close attendance and he does not have time to control it and pass. It has to be a first time pass. He makes a mess of it and Brighton win back the ball.

    There is still a lot to happen before they score though. Stephens is challenged by Cleverley but manages to play the forward pass. If you look at where our defensive players are at that moment, they are all in poor positions. Holebas is ahead of his man (as always) so is not in a position to cut out a fairly routine forward pass. Knockhaert lays it off to Hemed who advances. At this moment it's 3 v 3 and this is why we continually have these defensive problems. Players are not switched on and do not track back with the necessary urgency.

    Watson is lagging behind and cannot make a challenge and Hemed is unchallenged and passes to Gross. Janmaat should be marking him but is a long way behind him, so he collects the ball without any pressure on him.

    Kabasele comes across, so he cuts inside. Janmaat has by this time caught up but is still too far away to block the shot. The ball travels hard and Gomes should make a routine save, but it goes through him.

    So you can see, there were many elements that led to the goal. Cleverley's part was a component in this, but only in giving the ball back to Brighton. The goal came about because it was poorly defended by Watford. Our defenders do not anticipate situations, they are continually out of position and do not track quickly enough. They do not show enough desire to defend the goal and this is one of the main reasons why we concede so many goals.

    I concentrated on this move as it led to the goal, but there were numerous other moments where we've defended badly, only to have got away with it because Gomes made a good save or they missed an easy chance.

    The defensive line up we regularly field is not fit for purpose. It's been like this for 2 years now, and has been a problem for 3 head coaches. We need to spend money and basically start again.

    Maybe defensive coaching is not good enough but I think the majority of the blame lies with the players we have.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
    PowerJugs likes this.
  30. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    We had the ball and Cleverley missed the ball completely, giving the ball back to them leaving us stretched and out of position. He gave possession away and the ball was in our net a few seconds later. He was most to blame, alongside Gomes.

    He did the same when he got sent off a few games ago, missed the ball, leaving us exposed as we were piling forward - and he felt he had to foul. As I have said earlier, snatching at a routine ball isn't a lack of ability, it is lack of confidence.
     
  31. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    Tbh, when you combine both drink and that pathetic display, there is nothing positive to come out of your mouth.

    That said, im not trying to excuse the fella because it can completely ruin the experience of everyone surrounding him; especially families on a day out.
     
  32. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    Sorry but Silva is contradicting himself and making himself and our club look stupid. He came out in the papers saying that Gray is at his best against a highline defence. So he starts him against the deepest laying defence in the league. Leaving Okaka on the bench again. Our club and results should always come first instead of his ego.
    To be honest it's like starting with 10 men with Gray starting. He's an absolute joke of a player Okaka did more in his cameo than Gray did all match.
    Not saying that Okaka is the saviour but until the ***** puts club before himself we'll never know
     
    PowerJugs likes this.
  33. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Fair play to Okaka, he was the only one of team to miss an open goal.
     
  34. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    You may be on to something here, but I sincerely hope you aren’t. Unlike in the real world if a football manager does a bad job and gets the sack he gets the rest of his contract paid up. It might not be beyond the realms of possibility that the whole Everton thing has pissed him off and he just doesn’t want to be here anymore. Maybe he reckons it’s worth the risk his reputation will take a hit, other than that it’s not like he’ll be any worse off. I really hope it isn’t and I don't think it is what is happening, but Stranger Things have happened.
     
  35. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I agree. Our defensive players are the worst the premier league has to offer. Age has unfortunately caught up with many of them. There needs to be a wholesale replacing of this unit. I’d keep feminia and zeegalaar/Kabasele as back ups. I’d dispose of all the rest.
     

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