Wfc Finances

Exactly. You can’t justify debt without considering the level of it. Which is exactly what he was doing. And then he just parroted that line over and over again.

And that’s before we get to the fact the debt is covering shortfalls because we are busy spending millions a year on sacking multiple coaching teams, having seemingly excessive agent fees and running “other operating expenses” tens of millions in excess of comparable rivals over a 5 year period.

I am amazed many people don’t seem to worry how dreadfully our club is being run from a financial viewpoint. We are stuffed if we don’t bounce back next year in my view.

Even if we do bounce back the revenue will just indulge Pozzo again to follow the same practices and kick the can down the road.

 

Yep, as you know we agree on this. The debt is very high, the op costs seem high, the compensation is high. We are very fortunate we were promoted, as I said at the time I feared administration otherwise. They weren't helped by covid of course and I'm sure the debt and finances overall will look better after a season in the prem. I guess if they go back to spending zero on transfers in the champ and get decent fees for 2 or 3 players we should be fine going fwd. Big "IF" though.
Powerjugs posted a good summary of the financials on the athletic thread #884 https://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/the-athletic.57249/page-26#post-3116005

 

But we don't know this year's finances from the prem. It may be (and I hope so) that costs are down this year now that some big earners are out. The club hopefully will be in a healthier position than last relegation. If not then Pozzo & Dux deserve every criticism coming their way.

 

We hadn't prepared properly for relegation last time, as demonstrated by how much Bournemouth reduced their wage bill relative to us. We got rid of loads of high earners but were utterly stuffed by not being able to shift Gray and Deeney who then proceeded to contribute next to nothing to our promotion.

It was incredible that we got promoted with these two millstones limiting any kind of financial room for manoeuvre and I doubt we would have if Deeney hadn't got injured.

Much as I think the powers that be were reckless when we were last in the Premier League, I am cautiously optimistic that when we go down again, we won't be facing an immediate crisis. Whether they can stave one off in the longer term, I'm not so sure.

 

I’d take the £50m of debt paid down this year with a pinch of salt until we see the accounts.

 

I think there are two key questions and in the absence of this info it is unclear whether we are in a truly perilous situation or just a situation whereby the Pozzos have failed to adequately utilise our PL riches - merely a missed opportunity. These are:
a) was £50m in external debt really paid down without the incurrence of additional debt following the filing of accounts? If yes then that seems to suggest that the club have acted to get its external debt under control. If they’ve just refinanced or restructured it either formally or effectively by incurring additional debt during this period then that’s not particularly helpful.
b) we know that there is lots of “group debt” as Kieran Maguire referred to it owed to Hornets Investment Limited, Gino’s holding company. This appears to equate to roughly half of the net debt owed by the club. We also know that historically at least some of that was actually financed by a third party XXIII Capital who no longer appear to be in the picture. So what proportion of the Hornets Investment Limited loans are owed to/financed by external parties and which could be written off at the stroke of a pen by Gino seems material information and does not seem to be information that we have for now.

 

If you aim for the king, you’d best not miss (an interest payment).

 

Assume the protest has been arranged? No?

 

Odd stance. You can’t be critical of the owners without organising a protest? (which would achieve nothing). When you support the Pozzos I don’t ask why you aren’t busy singing the cringeworthy “here’s to you Pozzo family”!

 

You don't see the futility of moaning (with fair reason, at times) about something you're passionate about, without actually doing anything about it? And whining about the 'loudest voices', without doing anything to make your own voice louder?

 

No. I detest the owner, but nothing I do is going to influence what they do. I’m not one of those anti-capitalist barmies and have better things to do. Prefer a soul cleansing rant on here for 5 minutes.

That position doesn’t mean the FTRE bods aren’t worthy of my wrath.

 

Gino will go down as another useless owner who spent more money that the club could afford, gambling on future success.

 

I detest the owner, the majority of players and almost everything football related nowadays...and I've finally seen the light that I'm happier when there isn't a game then I am when there is one. So not renewing the ST for the first time since 1973

As for the FTRE idiots....never have I heard people speak with a more patronising tone than them. I respect what they built....but they sold their souls

 

Don't get your hopes up. It's perfectly possible to be perenially unhappy even if you don't have a ST.

 

How the hell are we so far removed from the Zola team that was basically free although in reality cost a fair few million? Like all the years and all the riches of the premier league, and for what? A squad that would probably lose to that team? We could have just gone up/down with Vydra, Fessi, Abdi etc and been in a well stable financial situation now.
What a mess! If an asset management company came in now and looked at the stadium and the playing squad’s value vs the debt, they would recommend we shut the doors, as we don’t really have a viable business.
#DoingBusinessProperly

 

You lot are disgusting for slagging off Gino and Scott. Look how far we've come, the ground now has four sides and we have a restaurant!

#becarefulwhatyouwishfor

 

You don't think the ownership would bat an eyelid at a protest outside the ground? Or a mass walk out? Or throwing tennis balls on the pitch?

 

No. Completely arrogant and would not care about anything the fans do. The fans are an irritant to be tolerated. And in any case half of our odd fanbase still love them!

 

We are a pale shadow of the club that we were under the stewardship of Laurence Bassini. #bringbackbas

 

So is it a case of the minority (and it is a minority) that hate the ownership are just all much smarter than your average Watford fan? But despite all this superior intelligence, can't think of a single way to change what's happening, or even attempt to?

And if this theory is correct, that the ownership couldn't give a **** what fans think, why go to the lengths that they go to to keep the 'idiots' on side? Why reduce ST prices? Why not sell naming rights for stands and the stadium? If they truly don't care what our moronic fans think or do, why bother? To keep FTRE and the twitterati towing the party line? To what end?

 

I don’t know why Pozzo does what he does in all spheres. A baffling character. I just know he does it. Just takes one playoff defeat next season to bring it crashing down. If others can’t see that and how much cash gets wasted it’s not my job to educate them. Hopefully we bounce back and don’t have to worry.

 

There is an asset management company involved. The two other directors of the club's parent company work for Raffaele Riva's asset management company whose mission is to maximise the profitability of assets for individuals.

The game is how to make the most money for Gino out of Watford. Sometimes that will coincide with what's best for the club, other times it won't. It's a fair enough position, he's not a childhood fan billionaire owner but the people that are convinced he's just loaned us £65m of his own money and wouldn't ask for it back if the club were unable to pay couldn't be more wrong.

 

Typical COG. We have no God-given right to make the playoffs.

 

And also that Gino has lent it to the club out of his own pocket, he’s only worth £100m which won’t be in liquid assets, any money he’s lent the club he’s borrowed himself and it isn’t secured on any of his personal assets, it’s to his holding company who in turn lend it to the club.

 

As @LeedsOrn said in post 846 we need to see the accounts for the parent/holding company to be sure. However it is instructive to note that although the club secured a loan from Macquarie Bank in November 21 that was widely reported to be £50m and secured against the ground and TV money (not player sale receivables) there was no mention of this loan taken out by the football club in the published accounts for June 21 that were signed off in March 22.

The directors/owners are not required to update "post balance sheet date" events but they have previously.

 

This has been noted.
Loans against anticipated Premier league prize money were taken out it has been alledged.
The debt is rumoured to be close £150million overall.

 

...why name the stands EJ & GT, why the statue etc etc...

 

A propaganda tool to turn the citizens against our resistance fighters hiding in the hills outside of Hemel.

 

Has anyone on here actually seen these accounts yet ? Last time I looked they weren’t actually published on companies house yet so I would guess not . Would rather have a look and comment after that.

 

Posted today on Companies House up to June 2021. Document still being processed, so not available to see yet, but it will be over the next 10 days.

 

Yes, the club has published them:

https://www.watfordfc.com/storage/74528/2021-Financial-Report.pdf

 

Same for the parent company:

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08112624/filing-history

 

Hey @We hate 48
Just had a very quick look at the accounts.
Out of interest, note 23 to the accounts shows as below. Based on the table and wording below, why don't the 'A' shares show as £13k in each year if they are issued and fully paid ? 13m x £0.001 = £13k. Looks like an error to me ? Either they are authorised but not issued, or the number of shares is wrong, or the value per share is wrong, or the total value of S Capital is wrong ???

 

I think the value of the 13m shares is £130 not £13k and so rounded up to £k 1,072,722 is same as 1,072,852