[SOLD] Philip Zinckernagel

5 and a half year deal wasn't it?

 

Sema slipped back in by virtue of our relegation. Had we stayed up he’d be nowhere near our squad now.

 

People believing Gosling is better than Zinckernagel is why we don’t deserve good players.

 

If he's gone, I'm disappointed, I would rather have lost half a dozen before him for this season, including Gosling.

 

I really hope some time soon players like this stop agreeing to sign for us, you can pretty much guarantee this is more or less the meaningful end of this poor guys career now. He was never played in his correct position, he’s got more promise than a lot of the junk we’re currently saddled with and yet he’s now off to forest. It’s not like they’re even a good club for his development with the manager they have, just totally random haphazard thinking from the club yet again. He’ll be seeing out his career in Bulgaria before we know it.

 

Pleased that he has gone out on loan. - it will be a good move for him and us. He has good technique and gets himself in great positions but loses the ball far too often and needs to learn when to play safe. He also needs to develop into a more rounded midfielder. He he offers absolutely nothing defensively, and even the more advanced midfielders need to close down etc in the Prem. He was rightly dropped by Xisco towards the end of the run in and would have barely featured in the Prem, so much better to see him gain playing time at Forest.

 

And then when it looks like promotion is a possibility we decide to give Sema a bumper 5 year deal when we know he isn’t good enough for the league above. We will then scratch our heads in 3 years time as to how we can’t get rid of him and then have to ship Zinkernagel mark 2 out on loan.

 

All we need now is Zinckernagel's loan to include an option to buy for Forest.

We wouldn't know this obviously because they wouldn't tell us, we'd have to find out through Forest.

 

Bizarre some of the reactions on here. The club invested in the guy’s talent, but, as is evident to anyone who has watched him, he isn’t yet ready for the Premier League.

If his aim in life is to make it in British football, this loan is a good one for him. He has an excellent contract and job security. He’s not had his career ‘ruined’, that’s hysterical.

It’s all ahead of him and up for grabs, if he is good enough and applies himself to his weaknesses. We’ll either have a good player or he’ll find his level.

 

The point is I think hardly any of our midfield are ready for the premier league. But rather than give players with development potential a chance it appears we are going to go with proven sub par players like Cleverley and Gosling.

 

The guy is 26, he should be at his peak. However, he has looked off the pace relative to the rest of the team since he joined. I was willing to give him this pre-season to see if it might help him get up to speed but he still appears less sharp than those around him and gets dispossessed far too easily.

Xisco will see him all the time in training as well and so will have had plenty of time to see if he's not up to it and has shown little signs of development.

A regular run of games on loan could still help, but I won't hold by breath.

 

Biggest contract? I think Gosling is better but that’s just my opinion

 

He struggled in the championship and was eventually dropped by Xisco, Gosling and Cleverley did not. We have signed midfielders who look better than him. He wouldn’t have played here. He hopefully has the chance at Forest to work on the things that he needs to and comes back a better player. As for ruining his career, that’s just plain stupid.

 

Eh? Where did I say his career is being ruined?

 

He was never played in his correct position, Xisco will also very likely be sacked before long, so the thinking of any given incumbent Watford manager shouldn’t really come into the thinking regarding the future if a player we signed on a 6 year deal. He also played Deeney until forced not to.

Gosling and Cleverley are no longer PL standard players, they hit their ceiling long ago and are only going to decline rapidly. Are you confident enough to say Zinkernagel couldn’t possibly meet and surpass the levels that Cleverly and Gosling (both 31 years of age) are currently at now?

 

Sorry mate, I just added that bit at the end as saw it posted earlier. Didn’t mean to suggest you had said it. Apologies

 

I saw nothing last season that said Zinc would be better options than any of the other midfielders we have. I have seen posts on here saying he’s been poor in ore season as well. I would rather he gets a full season elsewhere than sit on the bench here and waste a year

 

I've gone over this in detail before - the most advanced midfielder/#10 role should have been very good for him. He lacks the pace to be effective wide at a decent level and is too poor defensively for it.

 

I find it odd that anyone could be poor in pre season, I mean what does that actually mean? Unfit? Unable to control a football? I find it even more odd that people would place any stock in 3rd hand rumours about it on an Internet forum.

 

Nothing at all?! He was our highest assist maker in just half a season. Fair enough if your opinion is that he’s not PL standard (even if I think that’s unfair given the sample size of what we have seen) - but it’s just false to say he did nothing better than the others.

And given our lack of creativity in midfield, personally I’d rather he did sit on our bench as an option rather than go and get a season elsewhere - because as I’ve said above, sending our players elsewhere rarely leads to them coming back at anything other than commodities to loan/sell.

 

This is daft. Cleverley is not ‘sub par’. He’s the club captain and drives us on.

When Zinckernagel or Quina can get even half the number of appearances anywhere in English leagues we can talk about whether they or Gosling are a PL player. Gosling has cut it in the PL, that’s a simple fact.

And those two are not are only midfielders. We have Etebo, Kucka and Louza, Hughes and Chalobah too.

Ideally we would have better, younger players and if Hughes leaves maybe we will. Relegation meant we lost players like Doucoure and Capoue. We have to build again and maybe Louza is the first step.

But the PL is not a development opportunity. That was last year and PZN flunked it.

 

How many years since Gosling has cut it in the PL?

 

Clearly the club thinks he can again. And while we’ve had some dud signings over the last seven years, it’s rarely seemed like the club can’t evaluate who is the best in the squad.

 

Of course Cleverley is below par for the premier league. He contributed little in the years we were in that league whether by performance or continual injuries. He was effective at championship level. If you think Cleverley or Gosling are anything but relegation material then I would say you have seriously misjudged the level of the division.

Gosling was an effective squad option for Bournemouth a few years back. Perhaps we should start talking about when Cleverley played for England and declare that as a “simple fact”.

 

Or the club can’t shift him so are shifting out those who have interest instead….

 

I mean, come on, this is not clear in the slightest. You're as aware as anyone else here of both all the other reasons that Gosling would still be at the club whilst we are in the Prem, and how relatively meaningless any supposed positive judgement on a player's suitability for the Prem by the Pozzo hierarchy is given the number of players they've bloody-mindedly insisted that of in recent years when it's clear to absolutely everyone else of a Watford-minded capacity that it is, in fact, not the case - the delightful outcome of which being, of course, the club's recent relegation.

 

Gosling started fewer and played in less games than Zinckernagel. Only reason Gosling isn’t moving on is because nobody wants him due to age/wages. Giving him a three year deal is just more stupid business for a player that’s bottom half Championship level - and sets us back in the transfer market

 

Sure hence Deeney, Success and Gray hanging around like bad smells season after season.

 

Not sure what people were watching last season . Zinky looked promising and had a couple if March wining contributions but I seem to remember goslings contribution was greater and we need players that are premier league ready .I think he may take a while to adjust . I think loaning him out is probably the right move for now.

 

It's a madness people still seem to think otherwise.

 

I'd be amazed if Zinckernagel makes as many top level appearances in his career as Gosling and Cleverley have. Nothing in PZ's bang average career suggests he can surpass that, apart from one outstanding season, in a poor league.

Whether he's better or worse than them now is up for debate, but Cleverley was certainly more effective, and I don't think it's outrageous to say Gosling was more important for our promotion.

The assist stat is great and all, but one of them was a poor shot that deflected in off Sarr, so it's a stat that's easy to twist. The only assist I can remember that stood out as good play was the perfect slipped pass against Wycombe(?).

Think a full season playing regularly against decent opposition could be the making of him, if he takes the opportunity.

 

Cleverley absolutely is sub par at Premier League level. If we continue to rely on the likes of him and the other failures we've persisted with for years then God help us.

 

It also sums up the majority of our fanbase very tidily.

 

Well the club have either been keeping hold of Deeney, Gray, Success amongst others because they think they're good enough, or it's because they have them on ridiculous contracts and can't get rid of them anywhere. I don't know which is worse, either way it's incompetence!

 

Okay but if the assists were that easy, as a club who finished 2nd, why didn’t any (apart from Sarr) of the players who played far more than him not get as many? If his assists were easy, surely he should be praised for his positional sense to be in the right place to make such easy assists?