Well, that does kind of answer my question, and is likely the reason why they’re looking a lot more solid (only five goals conceded so far, and three of them have come against Liverpool). But it does ask the question, why a team, whose manager is so tactically superior to Xisco and had a whole season for his managerial acumen to take effect (and two seasons before that to build that Brentford team), had Toney available for almost every game, took four points off us, while we muddled about for over half a season with Ivic and Deeney hardly winning an away game, still finished four points below us? Could it simply be that the Championship is more of a level playing field whereas in the Prem managers’ limitations become more exposed (for instance Warnock has an impressive record in the divisions below, but has never succeeded in the top flight)?
Absolutely - you are on to something here/this plays a strong role. Level of coaching ability is honestly less important in the Championship, when compared to level of squad and players available to you. Tactically you will, more often than not, not be tested in your own managerial ability by your opposing number (to anything like the same degree, if you are in charge of a good squad). Then it comes to the Prem, and pretty much every team you face is tactically adept as an absolute minimum. If you don't have that in your locker, it will be exposed over and over again, and so comparison between two Championship teams who were promoted becomes much less relevant - it becomes about how they did it, and the make-up of their respective coaches, because that is what tells the story of how you will do against the majority of your opponents, who are the challenge - not your fellow Champ rivals. This is exactly what those of us who were always worried about Xisco at the top level were saying all along, in fairness. Those of us who weren't are essentially hoping he can magic up that tactical ability out of the ether, and so far the signs are not there - it's going the other way entirely.
Less hateful than Muff, because they haven't done the dirty on us too many times, but they've been hateful for longer.
Going to this. Last time I went to Leeds was in '89 travelling over from Man Uni to watch us lose 2-1. Away fans had to cower in the corner of the terrace as we were bombarded with coins. It was a sh1thole ground then and have heard it still is. Am looking forward to heading back down to civilisation with 3 points in the back pocket.
Leeds fans after Cardiff were atrocious. Never met a more spiteful bunch of hateful knuckledraggers in my life. Beat them fair and square but they still wanted a war.
It’s an interesting point, which I think Chumlax has answered pretty well. A few things I would add, which are just theories and opinions. Firstly the championship is a slog, two games a week against mostly identical seeming opposition. I made the point several times last season that the majority of the teams in the championship just blur into one, they all seem to play pretty much the same way, because their players are all fairly limited. I would guess someone like Frank wouldn’t worry about doing too much pregame on each opponent, maybe a bit, but the focus would probably be on turning up and playing their game, rather than worrying about what the next identikit championship team will do. I think if you combine that with the slog factor of playing two games a week, the players probably aren’t as focused and organised for each game and it is more about motivating the players and getting them up for it, rather than having a tactical masterplan to unlock the Birmingham defence on a Tuesday night. Jump to the PL and that sort of approach would be suicide, Brentford are inferior to most of their opposition so they have to focus on the tactical element of how to overcome their opposition far more. It’s pretty basic, but I read they deliberately targeted TAA as a weakness on the weekend, and Raya played something like 18 balls to Toney on that side of the pitch as a deliberate means of doing so, which clearly worked. Evidence of the manager doing his homework and getting his tactics right, something unfortunately I’ve not seen much evidence of from Munoz. You’ve also got to scrap for everything in the PL, something the players will be acutely aware of, whereas in the championship they wouldn’t necessarily have the same attitude in all 46 games. The final thing I’ll add (for what it’s actually worth) is that the only time I thought we were comprehensively outplayed last season was in the first half at home against Brentford. Perhaps evidence of how our teams actually match up at full focus and capacity.
Out of interest, do we do 'brave' defeats, or are they only reserved for Brentford? I fear when we go on a bad run and inevitably sack Xisco, we won't be 'brave', but 'everything that's wrong with modern football'!
Great additions - to add even further to that - Brentford had three standout players last season: Ivan Toney, Rico Henry at left back and Josh Dasilva in central midfield. In Gameweek 31, they lost Henry to a season-ending injury. In gameweek 33, during a win that took them into the automatic places (whilst we were moving into fourth spot) they further proceeded to lose Dasilva to a season-ending injury, too. That sent them into the famous tailspin between weeks 34 and 40 in which they won only once, lost to direct rivals Norwich, and drew four in a row to allow us to close the gap and slip in ahead of them. It was only in week 41, when Frank implemented a new system that allowed them to cope with those losses, that they beat Preston 5-0 and set themselves on a path to ending the season with 5 wins in 7, including over our good selves. In essence, it could also be argued both that the 'squad' element was severely hampered by injury at the worst possible time for them, and that in eventually correcting it, Frank did in fact evidence some of that tactical nous that we are now seeing, up here.
As I’ve mentioned before elsewhere, this will be our 4th consecutive match against opponents yet to win in the league this season. I wonder if that’s ever happened before, especially as it wasn’t at the very start of the season but from Gameweek 4 onwards. Liverpool will end the run of course, but Southampton are imminent and they’re yet to win either.
I think it's fair to say Thomas Frank is a far, far better manager than Xisco, Xisco was blessed with a quite wonderful Championship squad (and was even luckier to actually have everyone at his disposal), whereas Frank certainly didn't have a ready-made squad of Championship all-stars when he first arrived, how many of that squad have improved so much under his watch?
Frank is a tactical minded coach. Xisco seems like a happy clapping yes man. As much as I praise Xisco for getting us up, he has shown already he is struggling how to plan out games. He may of saved his job getting 4pts from the last two games, but in reality I cannot see him lasting till Xmas.
Probably also worth pointing out he managed to cope with losing both Ollie Watkins and Benrahma between 19-20 and 20-21, reconstitute the team, and get promoted (obviously the intelligent recruitment, of Toney first and foremost, gave him a boost on that front).
He also weathered the loss of Maupay before that, without even having to dip into the transfer market, Watkins was converted from a winger to a striker under his tutelage
I just noticed that Frank's managerial history is strikingly similar to Graham Potter's (it's no coincidence that Arsenal were apparently looking at one of them as Arteta's successor when they were struggling earlier) - both managed for three seasons in the top flight in a Scandinavian country, beforehand in the same respective countries Frank managed a succession of youth teams and Potter managed in the lower divisions, and afterwards Frank managed for three seasons in the Championship and Potter one in the same division. Although the Danish and Swedish leagues are clearly not up to the same standard as the big four in Europe, could there be something to be said for plying your trade in them, in terms of team building, organization and tactics?
Interesting - you could certainly imagine there might be advantage in A) being able to develop your tactics in a league that is more forgiving, and in which the stakes are not as high, and B) in a league in which you don't have to make sure you're contending with the imposing physicality of the English pyramid.
I wouldn't worry to much about that darling. No doubt Linekar and Co. already have a Tweet drafted to spill out into the social media sphere. "Tut tut, sacked another one?" etc.
I can’t make on Saturday but recall going there in 1984 in the league cup and winning 4-0 - Worrall Sterling scoring! - midweek game - I think our first ever visit there - went on a private coach getting there around 5 - quite early and police said we had to be let into their supporters club as no pub would be allowed to take around 50 guys- as the club filled up it got very edgy but that was nothing compared to afterwards as mounted police charged the hordes waiting outside as we were escorted out along with the club arranged supporters coaches. One of my mates is a West Ham fan who was there last Saturday - very little has changed in terms of their hostility.
I wonder how thick Bielsa's dossier is on our team. No doubt a little thicker than the one Munoz may have. Bielsa is a god and a great coach but a perennial under achiever in some respects both with Argentina and the clubs he has managed. Although with Leeds he has turned what were deemed average players into very good ones always the sign of a good coach. He could do with more investment but he is reluctant sometimes to do so. I think if we can hold firm and not be negative we can hurt them on the counter. Their confidence is not likely to be that high although West Ham were very fortunate to come away with a win. Raphinha looks ever so dangerous so him versus Rose and Dennis will be interesting.
Ever since I was at ******* road to witness Glyn Hodges score that header in a 1-0 victory from the home end and my grandfather and I got covered in Yorkshire mucus after being unable to contain my excitement at 9/10 years old I’ve hated this city and team. Dirty shower of ***** 2 Golden boys 4 Another game I’d love to be at and hopefully I’ll be so jealous watching our travelling army on the tv. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Funny how conflicting the accounts of that day have been, I’ve heard about others who said the Leeds fans they met were friendly and gracious in defeat. When my brother was driving me back to Bristol after the game, some Leeds fans leaned out of their car and asked for my 2006 play-off winners scarf which was dangling out of the front passenger window in celebration. They might have been taking the piss, but they seemed good-natured enough.
We met a few before the game who were nervous and friendly - bumped into them in the same bar afterwards and they gave us their bottle of champagne they had had chilled in case of a win. They were disappointed but gracious in defeat
So he is a better coach because it took him 3 attempts to win promotion as opposed to one ? And it only took him 6 or 7 games last season to adapt his formation when Munoz can’t even do it in the same game. Interesting.
How relevant is that? It took us three seasons to get promoted first time around, and then the coach that did it in less than a full season was let go and hasn’t been able to hold down a PL job since.
The number of times I have agreed with you must be countable on the fingers of one bird's wing. But you are 100% right on this one. They are a foul club with a foul support.
Really? The ones we bumped into were very gracious in defeat....I think they were more interested in scrapping with Cardiff fans later in the evening.
Bumped into one in the kebab shop at the end of the night, ******* knobhead fell over his own punches. Was more satisfying just laughing at the moron, than giving him the kick in he deserved Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank god I'm not going, I can watch the game on mute so I don't have to hear that truly dreadful song they love to belt out.
Have you tried down the back of the sofa. Found the remote control down there this morning plus £1.30 and half a digestive biscuit.
