how can Israel claim that one of the buildings it has hit contained the Hamas person who planned the invasion? If their intelligence is that good why didn't they stop it in the first place?
A man accused of making racist comments at a pro-Palestine march in London has been charged, the Met Police has said. The 67-year-old was charged with intentionally causing racially aggravated harassment, alarm or distress after being arrested on Saturday. The man is alleged to have made racist remarks towards people gathered in Whitehall and a police officer. He will appear at Westminster Magistrates Court on 2 November. The Met said on X, formerly Twitter: "The man was arrested after shouting racial abuse at those gathered in Whitehall and making similar racist comments to an officer who spoke with him. "The man was in possession of a UK flag. "This was in no way the reason for his arrest and forms no part of the charges against him." - BBC
There has been a "massive increase" in antisemitic incidents in London since the Hamas attacks on Israel, the Metropolitan Police said. Between 30 September and 13 October there were 105 antisemitic incidents and 75 offences. In the same period last year, there were 14 antisemitic incidents and 12 offences. The PM called the rise "disgusting", adding extra funding had been given to protect Jewish institutions. Met Police deputy assistant commissioner Laurence Taylor said antisemitic incidents over the past week included intimidation outside synagogues and loudly playing German military music. He added the force had also seen an increase in Islamophobic incidents, "but nothing like the scale of the increase in antisemitism".
This crisis has moved so quickly it feels that the fate of the hostages has received less attention that it has in other conflicts. But 126, from a number of Countries, confirmed as hostages. Their plight is truly awful, held by captors who have a demonstrated their willingness for sadism, within a cauldron of bombing and imminent close fighting. I can scarcely conceive of a more wretched situation for a person to find themselves in. In any other crisis, attempts to secure their release would have been the story. No one appears to feel it is imminent or likely. Everyone should be united in condemnation for hostage taking. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/15/israel-confirms-people-hostage-hamas
I said no such thing. Recognising that atrocities are committed in war is nothing new. Do you think I was describing the allied war effort against the nazis a terrorist act? Do you think we were acting like a bunch of terrorists when we killed tens of thousands of French people liberating that country? Do you think the Free French that were involved in those actions were terrorists? How simplistic. Are you going to start posting condemnation of Hamas for their acts? There are a few around. Would you like it if someone started posting senior politicians condemning the beheading of babies, in response to your posts? No? I get criticising Israel for their response. But failing to criticise Hamas because they are terrorists, suggests a very peculiar and uneven view of things. I would be interested to know your view on Hamas, their continued holding of hostages, and their use of human sheilds.
Almost posted that this thread had been a remarkably sensible, informative and respectful discussion about a really difficult and horrifying subject a couple of pages ago. Good job I didn't!
Nice one Steve. Do you think you are improving things? Perhaps if your mates didn't act allergically to opposing ideas, it wouldn't be so bad.
Here, I will make my views on the actions of Hamas, the response of the IDF, and both, very clear for you: The Court shall have jurisdiction in respect of war crimes in particular when committed as part of a plan or policy or as part of a large-scale commission of such crimes. For the purpose of this Statute, ‘war crimes’ means: Grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, namely, any of the following acts against persons or property protected under the provisions of the relevant Geneva Convention: Wilful killing Torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments; Wilfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health; Extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly; Compelling a prisoner of war or other protected person to serve in the forces of a hostile Power; Wilfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial; Unlawful deportation or transfer or unlawful confinement; Taking of hostages. Other serious violations of the laws and customs applicable in international armed conflict, within the established framework of international law, namely, any of the following acts: Intentionally directing attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities; Intentionally directing attacks against civilian objects, that is, objects which are not military objectives; Intentionally directing attacks against personnel, installations, material, units or vehicles involved in a humanitarian assistance or peacekeeping mission in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, as long as they are entitled to the protection given to civilians or civilian objects under the international law of armed conflict; Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; Attacking or bombarding, by whatever means, towns, villages, dwellings or buildings which are undefended and which are not military objectives; Killing or wounding a combatant who, having laid down his arms or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion; Making improper use of a flag of truce, of the flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy or of the United Nations, as well as of the distinctive emblems of the Geneva Conventions, resulting in death or serious personal injury; The transfer, directly or indirectly, by the Occupying Power of parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies, or the deportation or transfer of all or parts of the population of the occupied territory within or outside this territory; Intentionally directing attacks against buildings dedicated to religion, education, art, science or charitable purposes, historic monuments, hospitals and places where the sick and wounded are collected, provided they are not military objectives; Subjecting persons who are in the power of an adverse party to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are neither justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the person concerned nor carried out in his or her interest, and which cause death to or seriously endanger the health of such person or persons; Killing or wounding treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army; Declaring that no quarter will be given; Destroying or seizing the enemy's property unless such destruction or seizure be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war; Declaring abolished, suspended or inadmissible in a court of law the rights and actions of the nationals of the hostile party; Compelling the nationals of the hostile party to take part in the operations of war directed against their own country, even if they were in the belligerent's service before the commencement of the war; Pillaging a town or place, even when taken by assault; Employing poison or poisoned weapons; Employing asphyxiating, poisonous or other gases, and all analogous liquids, materials or devices; Employing bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core or is pierced with incisions; Employing weapons, projectiles and material and methods of warfare which are of a nature to cause superfluous injury or unnecessary suffering or which are inherently indiscriminate in violation of the international law of armed conflict, provided that such weapons, projectiles and material and methods of warfare are the subject of a comprehensive prohibition and are included in an annex to this Statute, by an amendment in accordance with the relevant provisions set forth in articles 121 and 123; Committing outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment; Committing rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, as defined in article 7, paragraph 2 (f), enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence also constituting a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions; Utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations; Intentionally directing attacks against buildings, material, medical units and transport, and personnel using the distinctive emblems of the Geneva Conventions in conformity with international law; Intentionally using starvation of civilians as a method of warfare by depriving them of objects indispensable to their survival, including wilfully impeding relief supplies as provided for under the Geneva Conventions
I think you should read the discussion between Halfwayline and Since63 earlier in the thread and have a think about the way you drag every conversation you get involved in down to this level. Respectful, informative and balanced despite putting differing views across on a very emotive subject. Kudos to both of them, learned a lot from reading their exchange.
Go for it, I will start: US President Joe Biden says he has spoken with Palestinian Authority President Abbas. He [Palestinian President Abbas] says he condemned Hamas’s attack on Israel and "reiterated that Hamas does not stand for the Palestinian people’s right to dignity and self-determination". - BBC Although, I am yet to hear condemnation after images of Palestinian babies in hospitals with their skulls caved in after missiles targeted at their apartment buildings prior to any evacuation order made it collapse around them, or the hospitals with left with volunteers using manual man-power to generate electricity for incubators.
I'm sure there's a perfectly good answer but when I heard it reported that a building containing the Hamas person who planned the attack had been destroyed, the obvious question is how do you know who planned it a week after there appears to have been little or no intell. I'm probably just being pedantic and in no way attempting to promote a conspiracy of any kind.
BBC: Gaza should be smaller when this is over, Israeli minister says Cabinet minister Gideon Sa’ar has appeared on Israeli TV. He said Hamas must be destroyed so it could never threaten Israel again, adding this would serve as a lesson to the region. He also said that Gaza must end up smaller - with Israel taking control of a belt of land in the east and north of the strip. This would be a "security zone" and anyone who entered it would be "intercepted" by the military. He made clear these objectives were his personal views. but that he was saying them everywhere. Sa’ar said losing land was the price that “Arabs understand”.
Left or Right? . Hamas or Israel? It's all Coke or Pepsi to me There are bigger strings pulling the puppets If you want to take a side then crack on .But the only side I take is the civilian side. Those that have taken a side have me on ignore
So what was it in my post that was disrespectful, and do you think that If the forum didn't pile in on me, we would have ended up in this petty spat?
In the style of WFCForums tradition, there are rumours that Iran have privately given the US a clear 'list' of circumstances that, if they arose, would lead to a very, very, rapid escalation globally.
US President Biden: "You know, there are moments in this life — and I mean this literally — when the pure, unadulterated evil is unleashed on this world. The people of Israel lived through one such moment this weekend. The bloody hands of the terrorist organization Hamas — a group whose stated purpose for being is to kill Jews. This was an act of sheer evil. More than 1,000 civilians slaughtered — not just killed, slaughtered — in Israel. Among them, at least 14 American citizens killed. Parents butchered using their bodies to try to protect their children. Stomach-turning reports of being — babies being killed. Entire families slain. Young people massacred while attending a musical festival to celebrate peace — to celebrate peace" Glad you are enjoying it.
....anyone would think that someone is trying to start the Mother of all Holy wars ..... People are controlled by extremism and fear . People are controlled by those pretending to be "on their side" . And to trust them as they will "look after you " . Hamas/Israel two sides of the same coin
The number of Jews will be smaller when this is over, Hamas officials say, followed by "death to Jews". This is, they make clear, only their personal view.
- Israel’s air campaign against Gaza has killed 2,450 people so far and wounded 9,200. Israeli finance minister: ‘We need to admit honestly that we have failed’. - Photos taken to document and bury Gaza's unidentified in mass graves. Whether or not Hamas has attacked civilians does not give Israel the right to respond with a slaughter of civilians in turn. You do actually understand this, you are just being intellectually dishonest and trying to imply that the condemnation of one slaughter is somehow the celebration of another slaughter, something that nobody on this thread has ever said or remotely implied. As he sits there, dangling the dead from his hands as he calls for more blood. A truly psychopathic, nasty piece of work.
Funnily enough, I said exactly that to a friend a couple of days ago - that the most reasoned discussion I had seen of the situation was on here. I’m sorry I cursed the thread by saying that..
I will help you out of this ridiculous little mess you have gotten yourself in. You see, as you entered this thread you came in on the assumption that somebody here calling for Israel to stop attacks on civilians and blockades of food would also turn around and say "no I do not denounce Hamas they were acting in Palestinian defence". But what happened instead, is that nobody here has done that and in fact everybody already has denounced Hamas. As you had only prepared formulaic responses to support for Hamas and hadn't thought in any great detail about anything else, you decided instead of plow ahead and continue to repeat no probably did say you support Hamas and they are evil in the hope that by saying it would make it true so that you could make your contrived pre-prepared point, to which everyone has continued to agree with you - "no, I still agree Hamas are definitely evil, but the IDF also should not be taking civilian lives in response - especially as the military of a UN-member state who must follow the rule of law". Having been desperate for somebody to back Hamas but with no success, you then decided to imply - even yourself internally knowing it is a ridiculous insinuation - that thinking Israel as a government should act within the confines of the Geneva convention is support for Hamas as Hamas do not follow the rule of law. Then - even you - realising what a ridiculous position to take that is, decided to state your original formulaic point regardless "look at all these people who were slaughtered by Hamas, bet you loved that didn't you" to which the response has been "no that is definitely evil, people just also don't want more civilians targeted which is also bad". And now here we are, with you sullying the thread with a childish parody of somebody wanting to slaughter jews while thinking you are pointing to some kind of contradiction.
Before this thread is in danger of being derailed, could I please politely remind everyone to refrain from making personal insults.
Once again, it’s the same person out to get a rise out of people. ‘Young people massacred while attending a musical festival to celebrate peace — to celebrate peace" Glad you are enjoying it.’ How many more chances?
I saw an interview with a man who had discovered his eight year old daughter had been killed by Hamas. He viewed the news as “a blessing” because, at that point, the only alternative was that she was being held hostage and that would be worse.
Very dangerous times, but I wonder if the most at risk is Iran. It’s a powder keg of resentment towards the regime.
It was Carlos who implied he would enjoy such an exchange, then laid it down, not me. How many chances does he get?
One person has not denounced Hamas Carlos. You. I am not saying you support Hamas, and I am not saying you are a terrible person. My apologies if you have condemned them, as you said everyone has, its just that I can't find any case of you doing so. No problem if you, or anyone else supports them. I am glad that their supporters are out in the open. But like I say, I am not saying that is you. But just to reiterate my original point. I think murder is murder. I think that if you are of the opinion that Israel is being unballanced in its response, then it is better to express that opinion, rather than post snippets from the news, because there are plenty of snippets out there that can illicit an opposing view point. That is your prerogative. How it reflects on you is down to the beholder, based on your actions, but it seems you didn't like that game in the end. My comment on your enjoyment was a poke at your use of that phrase. I believe that most people would have understood that. I thnk it would be reassuring (lets face it, you have said some pretty unfortunate things about me on here - without complaint, and I forgive you) to hear you actually condemn Hamas, given that you appear to be the only person who hasn't done so (despite your claims in the above post). You really don't have to. Just suggesting that by doing so you could put your money where your snippets are. Regain some of the moral high ground. Respect to you either way. Peace be upon you.
By accusing Hamas of war crimes I have clearly already done so implicitly; "if Hamas members were arrested, they would, obviously, be tried for war crimes against civilians". For the sake of not going around in circles I will just assume you have searched for a word such as 'denounce' or 'condemn' and therefore failed to identify that, and to avoid a tedious and boring argument over semantics I will also explicitly write "I denounce Hamas" here.
Alas. Recognising War Crimes is not the same as condemning them, so this does have meaning, and no one may be left with any doubt. Not that you need to be judged by me. I condemn war crimes on the part of Israel and Hamas, and I see them as equal in their attrocity.
