Euro 2012 Quarter Final 4: England - Italy (24/06/2012)

What a reactionary load of b*llocks this thread is.

I'm as gutted as anyone but slagging the players' commitment and passion is just plain moronic and exactly the sort of cliches that are rolled out every two years. Usually they deserve to be criticised for that but this tournament they played with heart, spirit and togetherness and decent organisation.

The simple truth of it is that we just aren't very good at keeping the ball. That's not any player or coaches fault; those problems are deeply ingrained in English football for grass roots level up and unfortunately what we are seeing now is the beginnings of people realising what the Germans and Spanish cottoned on to ten years ago. We will get better and be a force again but we're not likely to do so for a good 8-10 years. In that respect what we are doing now is doing the best with what we've got and we have done that this tournament. We can't pass and keep possession like Spain, Holland or Germany so we looked for alternative ways of winning and bar the crossbar and a scuffed penalty we may just have reached the last four by doing so.

It does make me laugh when people say that we need to get rid of the old players and throw out a load of youngsters. John Terry and Steven Gerrard were by far and away our best players this tournament and would have been invaluable to the young players who would have looked to them for help and experience. If Roy had listened to the majority of scapegoat hunting, reactionists and not picked Terry and especially Gerrard we would not have left the group.

Credit to Roy for coming in and giving the national team a kick up the arse and a bit of pride and determination if nothing else. This needs to be seen as the first step in the right direction for England in what will be a difficult period of adjustment. Roy is doing a good job and is getting us playing the only way that we will be able to with any sort of results for the time being.

 

I like the way he said that he always knew that Group B and C were the strong groups and the semi final fixtures show it.

Credit where it's due though he say that and thought that Group B in particular would be strong. So much so that he thought three f**king teams would qualify from it.

 

Wasn't that Hanson?

 

Yeah, meant to quote Lego's post.

 

He was born in England so he is English.

 

What a great game of football. I really enjoyed tonight. It was like watching a Rocky film. Wave after wave of attack and England repelled absolutely everything. They hit the post twice, missed two sitters and had one disallowed. I thought history would be on our side after all that when it came to the shoot out, but now we all know Ashley's should never take penalties.

Never mind, we gave it our all with a VERY limited side. We punched above our weight and I'm very proud to be an England fan tonight. We played as well as we could have and Hodgson has done wonders with that side.

It may be a blessing, we've gone out with our head's held high. Germany would have destroyed us, and I'm sure a heavy semi final defeat to them would have been hard to take.

From the players we have, we have exceeded expectations. Well done England. We never lost a match.

On the up side, just imagine how happy Pozzo will be tonight!!. Takeover to be completed tomorrow :biggrin:

 

Brilliant, let's play Gerrard and Terry in the next world cup. They'll both be two years older and two more years over the hill. Great.

No, let's blood some younger players and build for the next World Cup. The Germans did it and they showed their quality in the last World Cup. They'll probably go on to win the Euro's with a young exciting side.

Wilshere and Chamberlain are the future. Not Terry and Gerrard, regardless of how well they did in this tournament.

Terry, for me, was our best player.

 

I completely agree that we need to blood new players through but you can't just throw a load of youngsters in without experienced heads next to them; that's not good for anyone.

Even youthful teams like Spain have the likes of Xavi and Senna before him at Euro 2008 and Germany have the likes of Klose.

Whether or not Gerrard and Terry will be up to it in 2014 remains to be seen but they will be roughly the same age as Pirlo is now.

 

The press will probably still hammer England. Why?

Because Roy isn't Harry Redknapp.

 

Or because we played disgraceful, anti-football rather than having a go.

 

Which would be hypocritical as they loved Chelsea for it when they won the Champions League....

 

I don't think they will. The way he went about his task and got the England players so united, the substitutions he made and his reading of the game was very impressive. It's not his fault we don't have the players the nation expects we should have. He has done a very good job in a very short space of time and I think the press will recognise that.

 

Anyone who thinks England will be improving in the next few decades is living in cloud cuckoo land.

My Son is now 6, and has played in the under 6's this season. They play on massive pitches, and as soon as the ball is anywhere near goal the cry from all coaches is "get rid of it". What makes it worse is that this season it's just friendlies. Football at all junior levels is a *****ing disgrace in this country, and that showed in the senior team tonight.

RIP English football.

 

Hear this all the time. One person I know removed their son from a youth setup that will remain nameless for this very reason.

 

:sign15:

Spot on JB.

You may remember me slating the England team, selection and setup 2 months or so ago. I'm happy to say that I've been proven completely wrong now, and will eat my words. The reason for my slating is that I just couldn't see any way past the previous negativity, but Hodgson has really done well with this side in a very short space of time. He's actually done better in less than 2 months than Fabio ever did in 5 yrs or so. I find myself actually wanting to watch England again.

Slagging the players off after they've actually had quite a good tournament bar today is ridiculous, I totally agree. It would also have been absurd to have not taken Gerrard or Terry. We need leaders for Christ's sake! If we don't take them, who would the younger players look to? Love them or hate them, but Gerrard and Terry are leaders, and are at the forefront of this team.

I feel we are at the beginnings of something quite promising with Roy at the helm. Let's pick ourselves up tomorrow, and look forward to the completion of St George's Park and all the benefits it will bring. We are on the up here, and I don't think I have ever genuinely felt positive about England, until now.

 

I hope you are right mate! How sure of this are you? Would be smashing to have such a great pick-me-up tomorrow after tonight!

This is a real, real shame and I hope that this will change one day in the future.

 

I obviously really hope not, Roy's done fantastically well.

But with the way in which the British press react, especially certain tabloid papers, they may possibly try to make him a blame target so to speak.

I'll be interested in the press tomorrow, lets just say that.

 

As mentioned after every tournement we exit it all has to change at kids level. Too much lump it forward to the big man and not enough focus on the technical side of football. Will this ever change though?

 

And in fairness it is changing, from next season smaller pitches and smaller teams. St. Georges park will help, as coaches will have clue what they're doing and aiming for as well.

 

The press generally try and reflect the mood of the nation so I would be surprised if Roy got much stick from them. He's been well received by the travelling fans as well which hasn't happened for a very long time.

 

The papers reflect the mood of the nation, not the ****heads that ring radio phone ins. I was with loads of England fans tonight, and although they would like England to be able to retain the ball better, they all believe Hodgson has done a brilliant job. We held Italy over 120 minues, and was only a couple of composed kicks away from the semi finals. That's rather good. Just imagine what he could have achieved with a better squad of players. Hodgson got the most out of what he had, and I think any rational, thinking person can see that.

 

That's right. A lot of coaches at kids level are 'Dads' rather than proper qualified coaches. As much knowledge these guys have they will get their kids to play the way they've been taught.

 

I agree!
Ive always liked Roy, even before he became coach of Udinese, and then having had the possibility to know him better I developed an high esteem of him.
I think he couldn't do more in such a short time, but I am sure he will bring a lot of positive changes for the future.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big supporter for Roy, and think he has done an outstanding job so far, but I was just thinking on the back of a performance that saw us hanging in for penalties only to lose, if their perception would change, obviously not.

I really hope the media are good with him, he bloody deserves it.

 

They will be; if there's one thing the media in this country love it's glorious failure.

 

Apologies he did, you're right.

Maybe the England re-build should be based around someone like Wiltshire as our playmaker.

 

Me & my missus favourite sexual position is called the ''England football team'' Neither of us know what we're doing or why we're there, there's no passion, no communication & we never make it past the 1st stage. There's horrible dribbling & never a clean sheet. Its over far too quickly & when it does end I know it'll be at least another four ****in years before it happens again !!!

 

Young had a bad game. As soon as the ref blew for penalties I said if he took one he'd miss.

 

I agree with you word for word.

However, it's not enough for people to say "we had players injured so we did OK."

Let's face it, having Wilshere, Lampard, Michah Richards or anyone else there would not have been enough. Who is England's Pirlo, Ronaldo or Ozul? We just don't have anyone who is "world class" elligible to play for England and then, underneath that, we just don't have the attacking quality.

None of our forwards is really good enough. Caroll was the only person who really did his job, which is an unglamourous, workmanlike role. Walcott has electric pace, but no quality, Young was terrible, Rooney has failed to fire far too many times for England and Wellbeck is a decent, OKish striker.

Why is it always penalties for England? I'll tell you why, because we play for penalties. We're incapable of winning a knockout game in open play, so we play for the chance to score from 12 yards, however, we've not got the bottle for that. We were playing for penalties yesterday from teh 20th minute.

 

I don't think anyone is slagging the players' passion and commitment.

I think most of the players acquitted themselves as well as can be expected. I do think we have a right to expect more from Young and Rooney, but most of our players came with minor reputations and lived up to them.

I think the anger and frustration stems from the fact that as a nation we're just failing to produce players who are capable of winning anything and we should. Not because we invented football 200 years ago or because we won the World Cup in 66, but because we have the money and infrastructure in the game to be able to produce players, but we don't.

Until we find the reason why England, for all it's 92 league clubs and academies and Premier League money is unable to create players of real quality, rather than import them, I can't see England ever being more than a 1/4 final team at major tournaments. s

 

How many times have England reached the quarter-finals and lost now? Four is it?

Maybe there's a clue there and that's as good as we are.
We haven't underperformed but neither have we played above our natural level.
Disappointing, yes. Surprising, no.

The one thing I can't fathom is just how unfit some of the players looked.
That isn't confined to English players as other countries have looked similarly sluggish too.

The one player I was shocked to see struggle so much was Rooney.
Match sharp after not playing 90mins for 4 or 5 weeks I can kind of understand but he looked so out of shape generally.
My hope for him was to have someone fresh coming into the team to help us push on as tournament fatigue began to set in but he looked woefully slow.

Oh well. I never expected us to do anything much than we did so, meh.
But because of that lack of expectation I actually enjoyed watching England for the first time in years.
I also liked the way Hodgson tried to set the team up, solid defensively and try to hit on the break but as I've said above we just didn't have the legs to make it work in the end.

As ever with football the focus now shifts to the next squad and the guessing games as to who should or shouldn't be there.
Personally I hope Hodgson is brave and goes for a younger England next time.
Not discarding everybody over 28 years of age but at least let the likes of Ox-Chamberlain, Welbeck, Jones, Smalling, Wilshire and the like have a chance to prove their worth.

And the next game?
Italy in a friendly!