Academy And Under-23s

The IT boys & girls (& all other gender types) have been busy this evening

Recent signing Freddie Buers has been added to the under 21 page taking the squad up to, well, twenty-one. Nice
4 are currently out on loan (not counting Abbott, as he should have returned now after completing just 45 minutes on the pitch for Potters Bar before injury took hold)

2 players have also been added to the under 18 page today despite said players (Conrad Hunt, 16, & Ignacio Garcia-Romero, 17) signing in the latter stages of 2023. This takes the players listed for that age group to a rather inflated 30

If the club don't make any signings tonight it could mean the likes of Jack Grieves & Aidan Coyne move up to the first team squad until the end of the season as back ups to the back ups and the better under 18's move up a group to the under 21's

 

The next James to sign from a PL academy to immediately become 'one of our own' has joined:

https://www.watfordfc.com/news/academy-clarridge-joins-hornets

Looking forward to seeing him trying his best to plug holes in defence next season once Hoedt is sold to raise funds in the summer.

 

Seems well thought of at Forest, sounds like injuries have disrupted his progress though.

 

This is the type of player you've wanted the academy to sign, picking off those at EPL clubs, so it'll be interesting how he progresses

With Buers coming from Kings Langley via Southend it looks as though we're actively looking at both ends of the football spectrum for the under 21's, and the two I posted about yesterday (Hunt & Garcia-Romero) also appear to have come from the opposite ends of the leagues with Hunt being taken from Bournemouth and Garcia-Romero seeming like a more local lad with links to St Albans, though I'm not 100% sure on that one, so it looks as though the younger age groups are also scouted top to toe

It's just a question of how good they are to begin with and can they be coached to a standard where they're given a chance later on. As you semi sarcastically/semi truthfully point out though, they may get those chances sooner if the wolf is let in meekly when McQuarie(spelling?) want their money back

Here's a biased view (we all do it with youngsters) of Clarridge after playing for the England under 18 side in October 2021
https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2021/10/12/forest-starlet-james-clarridge-shines-on-england-under-18-debut/

 

Have I?

 

I'm 99.99% sure it was you anyway! If not, I apologise for getting you confused with someone else

 

I have no problem with us signing youth premier league rejects because we might accidentally stumble across one that makes us £15mil-£20mil one day. The problem I have is that we sign them then send them on loan to some tin pot semi-pro league where their potential to improve massively decreases. We should only be looking to loan these youngsters to League 1 or 2. Maybe the National League if the team is on the up. We hamper so many of our youngsters by shipping them out on loan to woeful levels of football or even worse, some tinpot team abroad and expect an 18 year old to settle in a new country where he knows nothing.

This new kid obviously has some ability considering he represented England through some of the youth ranks. So let’s not waste it by sending him on loan to somewhere pointless. Like we did with Hurtado, when he went to NY Red Bulls “B” Team.

 

I mean, I sometimes don't remember what I said 5 minutes ago, but one doesn't ring a bell!

Arguably this isn't an academy signing anyway. He's a 19yo man going into what used to be called the reserves and no doubt on a professional (albeit lowly paid) contract.

 

Starting tomorrow I heard.

 

This guy is another right footed CB. We failed to sign a left footed CB this window.

Seems a bit strange when we're already having issues with giving one young right sided CB in Pollock minutes. Unless we don't rate Pollock enough long-term, or this guy is actually more rubbish reserve fodder.

 

Or, maybe he's seen as a better prospect than some/all centre backs of a similar age already at the academy?

To be fair, we've only really got Holding, Abbott and Coyne in that bracket (Holding is a year older, the other two a similar age to Clarridge) while Josh Mullins has been a regular for the under 21's and he still qualifies for the under 18's. In fact, I'd go so far as saying Mullins is the long term hope out of all of those judging by his promotion to the under 21's over the past 2 seasons

As Clarridge has only been given an 18 month contract, I'd say we've picked up a player with a good pedigree who will replace either of Coyne or Holding next season (I wouldn't be surprised to see at least one leave at the end of the season, most likely Holding) in the hope there's an upward trajectory in his ability to offer him a new contract and for him to push for Pollock's current role (fourth pick) for the first team squad in 2 seasons time

 

Fair enough, so sounds like he's a possible Morris type but at CB.

 

Probably, though with the added cache of representing England in a couple of age groups

 

The under 18's won again this morning, 3-0 versus lowly Ipswich

We remain hot on the heels of league leaders Bristol City who also won today (4-0 vs Swansea)

Both Cardiff & Charlton are 9pts behind Watford with 3 games in hand before today but worse goal difference, no scores for them this morning though

 

Charlton dropped 2pts with a 5-5 draw against QPR. Cardiff sat about playing on their consoles as they had no game today

 

Do you know how many of those who played in the FA Youth Cup are part of this u18s team? Is it the same group or are there differences?

 

Sorry LR, I've no idea who plays week to week

 

No worries. Just curious as our FA Youth Cup team this year seemed very underwhelming, yet this u18s lot actually seem to be playing fairly well. So I wondered if there are maybe some younger talents chipping in at u18s level but didn't play in the cup.

 

Looking at the side who played against City and comparing it with the sides I can find on youthhawk, I'd say Ortelli (g/k), Sanghrajka (mid), Lawson (fwd) and Nabizada (fwd) will have played a fair bit

Although Mullins (cb) played against City, I don't think he will have played much with the under 18's as he's often with the older group

Massiah-Edwards (wide fwd) has moved up to the under 21's of late, as have Adu-Poku & Ramirez-Espain (def mid) - must be double name thing!

But I'd say Ben Casey (def) plays as often as anyone

It's difficult to know for certain and as there are around 30 players who are named on the under 18's page, let alone any promising players from the group below that, it could be changing quite a bit week to week, though I have noticed Lawson, Nabizada and Odiase have played quite often due to their goal contributions

I'd also guard against making too harsh a judgement on any individual based on one game, especially against a side of obvious higher quality like City. Not just playing against better than usual opponents either, the occasion will have been different for a lot of them - playing under lights at the Vic as opposed to Saturday mornings at training grounds around the Southern counties may have spooked a few as well, it's all part of the learning experience

 

Hopefully a few U21/U18 players get a chance on Tuesday as a lot of the first-team players are tired, so need to rotate. In certain positions, where we don't have obvious cover, will hopefully garner chances for them, mainly at right-back as Ngakia is still out, defensive mid as no obvious cover for Livermore and centre-mid with Kayembe out.

Main right backs at U21 level have been Albert Eames & Alistair Gould. Defensive mid has been Aidan Coyle and recently Leo Ramirez-Espain (U18), and Jack Grieves would be the obvious choice as a no. 8.

Perhaps chances for a young CB (Clarridge, Abbott) to make the bench + potentially someone like Charlie Davis (CM)

 

That's a good point about Tuesday. The under 21's don't have a game this week so there's no need to spread them thin over their own and the 1st XI squads

At right-back I'd add the name Hamzat Balogun. I'm not a huge admirer but he's been around a while now. Gould I haven't seen but I like Eames at academy level
VI may just stick Porteous out there though and keep Hoedt in the middle, maybe alongside a Coyne or a Mullins
I think Abbott is injured at the moment, sadly, and it'd be a baptism of fire if Clarridge were to be thrown into the fray after only joining this week

Central midfield is where I think the under 21's are pretty weak. Coyne has played deep but is a better centre back so I wouldn't be surprised if Sierrelta starts there
Charlie Davis is a mainstay for the under 21's but I just don't see him playing at a higher level. Nice touches here and there but would be found out physically I think
Junior Gyamfi hasn't looked too bad in the middle but I'd be surprised if he could make the jump up against such a strong side like Southampton. Saying that, if they don't play you'll never really know

What may happen is Sierrelta plays deep, Ince comes into the middle with one of Chak, TDB or Kone starting and the other two coming on after 45 or 60 minutes
Sema & Dennis play the first 45 minutes out wide with either Asprilla & Martins taking over, or, depending how much VI wants to win, youngsters like Adu-Poku & Grieves could come off the bench

I wouldn't say there is too much quality to come in up front either, even just as cover on the bench. I've not been overly impressed by Laken Torres so maybe Grieves can double up as cover there too but I'd imagine Rajovic will start and Bayo will be sub

 

Yeah, I agree with pretty much all of this.

Would like to see something along these lines personally:

GK: Bachmann
RB: Eames
CB: Porteous
CB: Sierralta
LB: Morris
DM: Coyne
CM: Dele-Bashiru
CM: Grieves
RW: Ince
ST: Rajovic
LW: Sema

Subs:
Roberts
Mullins / Clarridge
Pollock
Andrews
Livermore / Ramirez-Espain
Davis / Chakvetadze
Martins / Asprilla
Dennis
Bayo

 

I was thinking I can't see so many youngsters start but having just looked and seen we're playing Leicester 4 days later, you may well be right!

 

Can we recall Forde?

 

If we got him back, with our lack of service he’ll soon break down.

 

There's nothing stating there was a recall clause in any of the announcements I've just looked up, but then again they don't say there isn't either

However, how bad would it be of us as a club to recall a player just days after the transfer window closes, not giving Orient a chance to replace him at all

So I don't think he'll be returning until the summer

 

I know you’re posting what you’d like rather than presumably what you think will happen, because that will never happen. It’ll be the usual first team squad lightly rotated. Highly improbable any kids are going to be starting on debut in an FA Cup 4th Round game.

 

Ok cool. Thanks for looking.

Since when has Gino cared about what our club looks like? They would just be another club to add to the never ending list of clubs and countries that we’ve ticked off. I wouldn’t put it past Gino to recall him if he has another good couple of games. Gino desperately wants promotion this year. We have no money. We’ve seen the decisions Gino makes when he has unrealistic expectations. This is exactly the sort of thing he would do.

I hope we don’t recall him and we let him develop, but I don’t trust Gino.

 

It'll be the same team as today but with Bachers in goal.

 

Yep. I'm definitely not expecting it unfortunately.

 

I don't know if you've seen this today @lowerrous but the under 18's are currently playing a cup game (their age bracket version of the League Cup) so I thought I'd compare the line up between this game and the Manchester City game you watched

City game (as displayed in the pre-match line-up graphic) on the left, todays line-up on the right

Ortelli...................Ortelli
Eames.................Stephenson
Vancea................King (c)
Ramirez-Espain...Taylor
Mullins (c)............Wachowicz
Casey..................Sala
Adu-Poku............Shevchenko
Sanghrajka..........Bolding
Lawson................Lawson
Sikiru...................Sikiru
Nabizada.............Odiase

Man City game's subs; Morris (gk), Wachowicz, Sala, Bolding, Shevchenko, Odiase, Messiah-Edwards
Todays subs; Morris (gk), Hunt, Barrett, Smith, Bowlin

As you can see, quite a few changes!

We're currently 2-up after about 30 minutes

 

For anyone interested, todays under 18 game against Hull City is an Under 18 PDL (Professional Development League) League Cup Quarter-Final, a one off tie

Watford topped their group with 1 win and 2 draws

The quarter finals are Watford v Hull, Burnley v Oxford, Sheffield United v Swansea and Millwall v Fleetwood
Hull qualified for the quarter finals as the runner-up with the best record throughout the 7 groups

Watford currently lead 2-0 at half time with goals from Lawson and Shevchenko

The academy twitter account is giving updates here @WatfordFCAcad