Yes.. same as most clubs. Its also worth noting that since the 500 half season tickets were released home league attendances havent dropped below the 20,600 mark. I think its fair to say that some of our season ticket holders are quite picky about which fixtures they attend & before anyone says.. yes, that's their choice to make.
Watched the MOTD highlights and looked nothing like what was described. Again, with no context as I wasn't at the game, it could seem like people who dat and watched it are moaning over nothing, but having watched enough games myself this season, I can recognise the exact problems being discussed. To Danny Murphy and co, however, watdord just beat Villa are on 44 points and doing well.
i got quite excited myself watching the MOTD highlights; then I remembered the other 91 minutes from yesterday....
If we're to stay at this level for the long term you will have to 'take mid table' for almost every season from now on. If we're really lucky a relegation scrap will be thrown into the mix every now and again to keep our attention.
I you ignore the carefully made arguments repeatedly stated all over this forum about the season's decline since January, the failure to challenge the dwindling performance levels and the absolute refusal to consider anything other than the plan A of 'keep it tight and hope Iggy nicks a goal,' whilst alienating all but the favoured core of the squad in the process then yes, Danny Murphy has it nailed.
No no, you said: - Watford have beaten Villa - Watford are 12th - Watford are doing well All of which are correct. What else do you want Danny Murphy to summise? He's not to know that a few Watford fans on a forum are miserable spoiled gits with not a minute's patience is he?
Ok, sorry didn't know we were just being obtuse and ignoring the actual topic which is the 'bigger picture,' whilst we're aware of everything Danny isn't but yeah, if we're on semantics then congrats on a point scored.
What's the bigger picture Moog? I think Danny Murphy and co have more accurately summarised the big picture than many on here, without watching every game. Season 1 in the premier league, it's about survival, he's smashed that target. So it's not semantics - I think Murphy has it more right than you!
As I say by ignoring the other arguments put forward you've got a cast iron case. Fortunately Gino agrees with me and not with you/murphy
Regarding Ighalo it is pretty obvious why he hasnt been on his game now, his Father being very ill and then dying last week would take your mind off football obviously.
I will hold my hands up and admit, for the first time in years, I left the game on the 80th minute as I needed to get to Westfield Vue by 6.30. Here's the thing - it didn't bother me that I missed the finale or excite me that we had won. No idea if that's because the game was so poor in quality or if it's because the 3 points were "meaningless" In a different note, we went to see Eddie the Eagle which really was a good film
I watched the game on a stream and Gino was shown quite a few times, judging from what I saw of his reactions during the game QSF is gone. Arms crossed a few times and looking rather frustrated on other occasions.
I didn't go, haven't missed a home game all season but the style of football along with the line up and how meaningless the game was, meant other things took priority. Three different people said to me "I bet you're gutted you missed that ending!" Sadly, I wasn't that bothered. Probably because we're safe by now and it means nothing but bit of a weird one ey Premier League football
I'm not saying we performed particularly well in those 2 games, but we definitely tried to play better football than we usually do. This season we've been very direct and poor when it comes to passing/keeping the ball. We average 46% possession and attempt an average of 384 passes per game. In recent games we've tried to play out from the back more often and we're attempting to work our way into goalscoring opportunities, sure it hasn't been that successful but it makes a nice change from just hoofing it to Deeney. Against West Ham we played 461 passes and had 54% possession, on Saturday there were 631 attempted passes and we had 65% possession. This is what Quique supposedly said about us playing more expansive football once we're safe.
I would have agreed with you after just the West Ham game. Against Spam they were, at times, very good going forward. Fast, quick interchanges, movement up front and some players actually going past theirs and retaining it. Berghuis looked good whilst he was on. All done without exposing our defence. The goals weren't conceded by our defence being exposed. But then against Palace we were awful and then against Villa we went backwards again. A defensive set up, players out of position all over the park and out of 631 passes, I bet 450 of them were backwards or sideways. And it was oh, so slow. How often do we see a player run more than 5/10 yards forward with the ball? Barely never. I can only remember twice, one by Nyom, and one by Capoue over about 6 games. How often do we see Deeney or Iggy run into space inviting a through ball, or one over the top? Again, barely never. They are so static, providing little option for the midfielders, who seem scared to run with it, so pass sideways or back. How often do we see our forward players cross over, dragging defenders with them, running into space creating space behind them. Ever? How often do we attack the near post to meet the inevitable mi**** corner or free kick? Once, against WBA, and we scored from it. How often have we had a decent shot from the edge of the area. Maybe 4 or 5 times in about as many matches? How often have we got a player round the back and made a decent cross? So devoid of attacking ideas, movement or threat. Maybe I missed it, maybe I just fell asleep.
It's helpful to put things in perspective. We played against a crap team who are already relegated. It's no surprise our match stats were higher than our average, because Villa are the worst team in the league. Their fans are actively heckling their own players! Despite that, Villa should have won the game and we were incredibly lucky. The problem with looking at stats is they're misleading. Whether 300 passes or 500 passes, if all of those passes are sideways or backwards because you're playing with two central midfielders as wingers (who you then shackle by telling them to play defensively) the outcome is identical. There is still no movement, no incision, and two first eleven players are being played well out of position in a way that makes them utterly ineffective. Until Berghuis came on our approach play was no different to any of our games since Christmas. The definition of madness is often said to be repeating the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. We didn't do anything different against Villa. We simply got to apply the same tactical approach more often, because they were crap, sitting back and losing the ball a lot (and despite that, they still deserved to win).
Gonna take things slightly away from the discussion, but since we're mathematically safe, I'd like to bring this photo back to our notice again View attachment 2942
We've been unlucky and lost this season (Man Utd and Leicester away for example)...it happens...it's called football. The game is 90 minutes plus injury time...so the oldage is you play to the final whistle. However, as you're pushing an agenda, it serves your purpose to ignore this which can be construed as intellectually dishonest....just saying. Whether he stays or goes, he's achieved something unprecedented to which he deserves credit and respect. However, if you want my honest opinion, some fans have now become the epitome of the fans of other clubs we used to ridicule. Whoever comes in if QSF goes...god help him...if he doesn't play expansive football...he'll be hounded out. If we lose games 4-3 and end up in a relegation battle...he'll be hounded out because we can't defend...If he keeps it tight and keeps us up...he'll be hounded out. The Watford Head Coach role is rapidly becoming a poisoned chalice because owner and some fans are trying run before they can walk and next season is vital as we don't want to succumb to the 'second season syndrome'. If he goes, then he has my thanks, respect and best wishes. Whoever the new guy is, good luck to him because anything below our current position should be seen as a failure.
Agreed, but that's not really relevant in the context of the match discussion, is it? Everyone who has watched us this season knows there are just as many examples of us getting lucky as those where we didn't. See: Gomes double save v WBA. "Pushing an agenda"? Is that the impolite way of saying "venturing an alternative opinion to my own?" Who said otherwise? Regardless of discussions about on field performances and poor usage of the squad in their right positions, we've still stayed up. I'm not sure this board has ever been in the habit of ridiculing other fans who are complaining about sustained poor on-field performances and four wins in the current calendar year, but you're entitled to your opinion. No he won't. That's just hyperbole. No, it isn't. There's nothing particularly unusual about our setup or the head coach retention if you pay attention to football outside of the UK. The Pozzos have sacked a grand total of one head coach since they started, if you exclude Dyche (who wasn't their appointment). That was McKinlay, who was removed after a mere week because the owners believed they made the wrong choice and acted swiftly. Every other coach has either resigned over performance concerns, had personal health issues, or has left at the end of their contract. We can speculate until the cows come home about what caused the resignations but without hard facts that's rather pointless. I'm fairly sure almost no one disagrees with that. It should? Why is that? There's a lot more to a season than finishing position.
Why is it luck? Isn't that HG's job or is he lucky? He's there to stop them scoring. What I would say was unlucky was the second penalty award. You're agenda is anti-Flores, claiming that we were lucky on Saturday and focusing on that whilst ignoring the bad luck we've had. That's what's intellectually dishonest. Again anti-Flores agenda...he kept us up...mission accomplished...the ends for this season justify the means...focus on Saturday...ask any Villa fan. Then you've completely missed the point unfortunately. Try again. Really? Zola - best football I've ever seen. QSF - Keeping us us up and he leaves. Jokanovic - got us promoted and was shown the door...again intellectual dishonesty. I do, I'm Italian....doesn't mean I approve...in fact I hate it. If he failed in his objectives then being removed is fair. Want to patronise a little more? Go for it. Well if you want a revolving head coach door...then that's your choice. However, as you wanted to point to Europe...let's look at Europe. The merry go round of head coaches being replaced every 5 minutes means you're going to get journeymen coaches. The decent ones won't want to come to a 'hire and fire' club - the fact Gino has been speaking to other coaches whilst he has one in situ, tells you how the Pozzos operate. Some do. The vitriol is very clear from some posters. Not this season or next season. Survival is everything next year, however as so many posters on here have said we're going backwards under QSF. Well next year finishing higher than this year would be seen as progress and taking us to the next level. If we don't...that's going backwards. I've said it and so has UEA quite correctly - the next 2 years WILL change the club forever if we stay up.
Go and look up the rate of scoring from penalties. Then go and look up how many goalkeepers have successfully saved two penalties in a single game. It's an indisputable fact: penalties favour the person taking them, not the goalkeeper, and it isn't even close. For a keeper to save two penalties in a game (and two not terrible ones at that) is exceptionally fortunate. ...which we were. Stating the truth is pushing an agenda now? Was the match thread about Watford v Man Utd, or Watford v Villa? Perhaps you should go to the match threads from the games we were unlucky in and see what I wrote. I think you'll find I stated we were unlucky. That's demonstrably false, seeing as you just quoted the bit where I said I agreed we'd been unlucky in the two examples you cited. And you're accusing others of being intellectually dishonest? That doesn't mean we can't do better. Bournemouth seem to have managed to play less negatively than us with a worse squad and an inferior scouting network. I think I've grasped the point quite nicely, thank you. Zola: resigned. Twice, if you believe the reports. Joka: out of contract. Reported salary negotiation differences, though Joka says otherwise. QSF: still at the club at present so jumping the gun a bit to assume he's definitely gone. I didn't say you needed to approve or like it. I said that pretending we're somehow unique is clearly untrue. We're not even close to being unique and considering that 4 head coaches did not leave because they were fired (Zola, Sannino, Garcia, Joka) trying to build a narrative that they ruthlessly dispose of head coaches at the drop of a hat is, to use a phrase you seem to love, intellectually dishonest. In fact, Zola reportedly tried to resign at least once before he actually left, and it was rejected. So if someone thinks the incumbent isn't a good fit then they want a revolving door of head coaches? That's a straw man if ever I saw one. We don't know that Gino has been talking to anyone. The best we have are media rumours, which while they may be true are hardly conclusive or demonstrably correct. And if we want to assume they ARE true, then it seems just as likely QSF has been talking to Valencia, because there is no shortage of those rumours. Even if Gino has been talking to other head coaches, so what? That's completely his right considering a contractual break period is coming up. If you put in a contractual break that's enforceable by either party and don't expect the other party to potentially look around when that break is coming up, you're delusional. Haven't seen anything other than normal legitimate criticism of on-field performances and QSF's execution thereof. There is certainly nothing remotely resembling the abuse leveled at AB, Beppe, Lewington, etc., who really DID have hate campaigns going on around them. Stating that the majority of the discussion is anything other than normal critical discourse is a misrepresentation. There is no widespread mud slinging going on, just a lot of people concerned with the tactical approach, the out of position players, the relegation form on show since the start of the year and the apparent lack of desire to change any single one of these things. Survival is definitely the most important factor, agreed. If you could only choose one basic factor to guarantee next year, that is the one. That doesn't mean survival is the only criteria for success, though. If the choice was between turgid anti-football and survival versus beautiful Zola football and relegation, the choice is clearly survival. The point is that we don't need to make that binary decision. You can clearly and demonstrably survive AND thrive, as seen by Leicester, who look set to win the title in their second season back in the Premier League. There's a lot of middle ground. Football clubs traditionally carry the previous season's trajectory into the new one. Since the turn of the year we're in relegation form. I happen to believe we'll take that into next year if we don't change something.
Went to the game and bit the bullet and watched the extensive sky highlights yesterday.I agree we were not good on the day but I also now feel that for parts of the game we worked hard and Villa had there best game for a while. I think part of the problem Saturday was the high expectation.We all turned up thinking we should win easy.Nothing has been easy all season,well apart from Liverpool at home and the three games against Newcastle. We grind out a result which we didn't really deserve. I also saw on the highlights that Jurado and Paredes were actually trying and did make some reasonable contributions which I did not actually thnk on the day.However, I do think both should move on to pastures new as with the Prem money we should be able to get better players in.
Jurado is the best neat and tidy player in the world. We will struggle to replace his neat and tidiness.
A Portuguese friend of mine went for the first time this season, he said to me afterwards that Jurado was the most technically talented player on the pitch.
