I thought Pudil dealt with Zaha really well, got booked trying to recover getting back, but kept him quiet, especially considering he was 1 on 1 so many times. Completely disagree he was crap, I'd give him a 6/7, some poor crosses/ passes, in line with the team, in the final third.
Very disappointing to give away a two goal lead, but hey, we got a point. Watford are 3rd (for 1 day probably). Come on lets keep things in perspective. Yes, Holloway made a complete tool of himself on TV. Moaned before the game and after. Sky showed a Watford programme that he had circled in marker pen round all the "foreign / loan players and he had written some comments on it. Apparently we've befriended a big team, and are their reserves.
The first half we did well and shoulf have been 4-0 before halftime. Second half, we played like a league 2 side. It was very close to being a loss. Hoban was good, vydra seemed tired, deeney was under par, FF was cack a d the ref changed personalites at half time The last 5 or so minutes of the 2nd hlaf were taken up by the scuffle. The ginger **** got mouthy, got pushed back and warned and then took a swing resulting in him and his mates taking a few slaps and being taken away. The stewarding was sensibie in that they didnt have a word with us of us WFC supporters involved and told us to sit bacck down.
Oops, didn't mean to dislike this post, just leant on the laptop. Cant un-dislike so liked it as well - hope you understand
To all those saying it was a foul before FF even got free to pass to Deeney (& clatter a little into Speroni) - cheers. Didn't look so clear cut to me, but fair enough, enough of you have said the same so must have missed it myself. Thanks.
I'm not so sure about this. He did well first half, but I think that's because Zaha barely saw the ball. We seem to struggle against good wingers and I'm not convinced Pudil is the best defensively, he's a good attacker though. That was the main problem really, we sat too deep and allowed Zaha to play. We did the same against Brum earlier in the season, but Palace are a class above Brum and once the first goal went in, you knew the second was coming.
The problem is that good wingers will be able to exploit the fact that we only have one player on the wing - most teams in this division/country have two. The wing back position is the most difficult to pay in our system by miles. (IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!)
After 20 minutes, I never expected this result, by the end of the game I was grateful for a point. Palace started to get back into things after about 25 minutes, without really threatening, bar a very good save down at his post by Almunia from Dobbie, vut the signs were there. The second half was bossed by Palace, that boy Johnny Williams looked a class act when he came on, he ran the show, we shouldn't beat ourselves up too much. Yes the second half was ordinary at best, but we've seen a hell of a lot worse in previous seasons. I was very impressed with the way Palace played that second half - just a shame Holloway took the gloss off their performance with his utter gibberish afterwards... what a tool! Hoban was my MOTM for Watford, he played superbly - I think the stick FF has received is a tad harsh, he just had an off day, they happen - more concerned with Pudil and Hogg they were definitely not at the races tonight and Hall looked a bit out of sorts. I'm sure GZ will sort it out and after a win a Birmingham next week, this will all be forgotten. Keep the faith.
everyone could see we were being out play in the midfield sometimes you have to win a game ugly take of Deeney for a eustace .....keep vydra up front for most of the 2nd half with his pace i still think he would of nick one then take him off if not working for Murray with is pace or , Battocchio and play with no forwards for the last 10-20 mins
Thought we were fantastic in the first 25 minutes and looked utterly deadly whenever we got near their goal. Could have been 3 or 4 easily had Deeney and Vydra linked up as we've come to expect. Credit to Palace though, they could have collapsed after going 2-0 down so quickly. They pushed up and stopped us passing the ball, worked really hard to close us down and force us long. I thought it was a good game between two decent sides - Zaha impressed me, seemed to have developed a bit more of a cutting edge since the last time I saw him play during last season. Disappointing to have thrown away the lead though. Both goals were poor to concede. The first one should been cleared long before Ramage had the chance to smash it in, we had 4 defenders and Almunia around it. The second one we were guilty of throwing too many men forward, though they got a lucky break with FF tackling Zaha and knocking the ball perfectly to the guy out wide who crossed for KP. Few things that stood out for me: 1) Hogg gave the ball away far too much tonight, his touch and passing were not up to the standard required tonight and it really hampered our chances of getting the ball back and keeping it from them. His movement was poor as well and he never really found space for people to use him when they had the ball. This formation needs 3 people who are comfortable on the ball so we can keep it under pressure - Hogg isn't the guy for this. 2) Hoban was very impressive. The few weeks he's been out of the side seem to have done him some good. He made it look very easy at times, Pudil could learn a few things from the way Hoban dealt with Zaha going at him in and around the box. Really good performance from the boy. 3) Vydra looked tired tonight, his movement wasn't as sharp as we're used to seeing and he should have scored that header. Deeney should have played him in at least 3 times though. Disappointed to see the usual overly-hysterical reaction to a game that we didn't win. We're 10 points clear of the teams trying to get in the play-offs and we took 4 points from one of our closest rivals in the League. Yes, we should have taken 3 points tonight, but we played a good team who put in a very good performance. A little bit of perspective is needed at times.
Hogg is dog****, and the sooner we realise that we dont have a real ball winning midfielder in either of those two then we will be better off.
******. If you bothered to watch him, you'd see he starts most attacks (normally, today he was off the boil), the reason being he's won the ball. He's not glamorous, but nor was Patrick Viera. - Aside from that; I would give palace credit where it's due, they brought the game to us, and I don't think it was our doing, I genuinely thought they showed some of the class we've had this season. HOWEVER, I refuse to give them this credit, because 1. Holloway threw a tantrum over Zola having better toys than him, plus his arrogance of him being a 'top manager' (44th in the league table, nice one) 2. Their crowd. Whether or not the seat breaking is true, I saw a bunch of scummy w*nkers on market street, kicking over bins/plants/signs, throwing shops fruit, etc. - we're not their rivals, and more importantly, they're just small family businesses, scum canuts. They just ended up looking like an incredibly small time 'firm' (using the term as loosely as possible), doing small time damage, especially considering if they were as hard as they believed; the shop windows had no shutters on them etc., but that might have gotten them a telling off :sad1: - I like the term 'The Disneyland Crays'. Forestieri is getting too much stick, he came into an under performing side, and took the risk of trying to be that man who makes the difference, it didn't pay off remotely, but credit to him for trying. He was the only player outside of the first 20 minutes who attempted to get past some men. Doyley wasn't exceptional but did his job, won headers and got stuck in against tough opposition, although maybe some blame to him for their first goal, being caught in the leg-mix-up. Almunia was one of the better players, without his presence in the box, or some top quality saves, it could have been 5 or 6 - so for that I'll let him off for the goal-line fiasco. Chalobah gets caught with the ball too much, but often he sparkles, I guess it's what you get playing a 17 year old in midfield. Vydra started as himself, but he ran out of steam quickly - he was a foot slower than usual, and I think resultantly that brought down Deeney's game. Abdi was our best player today, he was taken out of the game eventually, but when he was involved, he was still typical Abdi. Our core problem today was we didn't work the ball fast enough, everything seemed sluggish, no thanks to the internationals. I think in the next game, we'll be completely up for it and give Birmingham a hiding.
What I will say is watford were always going to be weaker 2nd half, we all expected that, there were a lot of tired legs out there, before the game I would have a;sp been tempted to take the point, it is still a big one, poor performance, but let move on
who you calling a ******, we can disagree on our opinions without you becoming offensive. If you disagreed with my opinion in person you wouldnt start your point by telling me that im a ****** so dont do it on here. My opinion is that Hogg isnt as good as we need to win the ball in midfield, i think that hes underperformed all season. The position that he plays is far from glamorous, its the nitty gritty side of the job, most of the team are flair players and he is employed to break play up, i dont think he does that effectively enough.
:sad1::sad1::sad1::sad1::sad1::sad1::sad1::sad1::sad1: Holloway, is that you? - It's not a binary thing, you can't have 'You defend, but have no ability to pass or get forward' - how weak would that make our attack? Hogg is the best combination of defensive grit and ability to play the style we have, or can hope to have from now until at least the end of the season.
Loan players that have come into the club were not chosen by Zola and have been the key to success Zola's sub selection is bordering on clueless
Dog **** is severe, but Hogg doesn't have a good enough passing game to be first choice - period. Never will have. Neither does Eustace. Edit: Put Hogg and Doyley together and 2/4 defensive players don't have a passing game. We struggle to build from the back. Edit: That dmf position has been our weak spot in every bad performance. Chalobah (because he's young) drifts in and out of games. Abdi is never going to be that man. For me Jan should have been the opportunity to have a good go at getting someone in there. A ball playing old head - a new captain - a Frank Lampard type player (we could never afford Frank). Something about Deeney has also been nagging on me now for some weeks. For a guy with a seemingly automatic pass into the team first time every week he isn't a clinical striker, he isn't particularly creative, he isn't all that fast, in fact his only redeeming feat seems to be he gets physical with the opposition.
Careful now, you're not allowed to say a word against Deeney on this site. Much as it pains me to say it, but Palace have a bl**dy good support, put us to complete shame :dismay:.
Just seen the replay of the disallowed goal and I cant see where the foul came from Moxley went arse over *** on his own. Wrong decision, mind you had it gone in we would have stolen the points rather than earned them.
Two points waisted, maybe we can afford it. Are we that good, hope so! Come on, lets hit max prestand in the end of season in all games, then we are top2. Too much points given away already little worries on that.
I have broad shoulders, bring on the haters. I like Deeney as a player, he is a tremendously hard worker, great with the fans etc. But the quality curve from here on upwards is very steep and that's what bothers me. It was the same situation with Henderson. Great guy, fans favourite, hard worker.. but ultimately not good enough to transition into the top class.
Well I'm not so downhearted and negative as many on here. This performance doesn't prove that "we're not that good" or that this is a "dose of realism". It was just a poor performance against a top six side. we still didn't lose and we are still up there. Palace also dropped two points last night and all the others around us will do the same over the next few weeks. All good teams have bad days and when our style of play revolves around fluency, it is no surprise that we come unstuck sometimes. Personally, I wanted Battochio to start after a string of good performances and then I expected him to come on in place of Chalobah after his knock. I also expected Eustace to come on in place of Hogg, or does "break up play" but then who gives it way again too often. Maybe Battochio isn't a tackler, but he harries and closes down quickly - and can distribute well. Vydra didn't have a good game, it seemed that he too often gave up too soon, when he normally chases lost causes and I personally don't understand how that was caused by 60 minutes of football and a few hours kipping on a private plane in midweek. I travel all over Europe on Ryanair and Easyjet, regularly and I don't notice any difference when I go to the gym, etc - i know it is hardly the same, but just an opinion. I think one of the main issues was that both forwards, particularly Deeney, missed opportunities to put the other through. I'm not blown away by Deeney, like others seem to be. He seems to have a reserved ticket in the team. Maybe the odd time being left out wouldn't do him any harm. I also believe that we have seen the best of him and with little scope for improvement - and would definitely get found out in the Prem, if we were lucky enough to get there. Whereas, I do think the Vydra FF partnership could work, and get better, if they get the time to develop it. FF wasn't effective, but I wonder how he feels following on from his contract. Some aay he doesn't care now, but i think it may have gone the other way. Zola has said that he has to try and keep his players happy through some rotation, but then when someone DOES pledge his future to us, he hardly gets a game. Maybe FF is feeling a bit p****d off. But I see Deeney not signing an extension and playing every game. Great return from injury from Hoban. Assured and confident for such a young lad. Onwards and upwards, a quick glance at the table shows that we are still on target for the automatics.
Lets face it, in the end we were lucky to hold on for the draw, having said that, Palace were lucky not to be four down in the 1st half hour and to getaway with the blatant handball in their box towards the end, therefore the draw was probably a fair result. As for our team: - Almunia 6 - Has been a little bit dodgy for a few games now, whereas I have been very happy with him so far this season, so hopefully it is just a blip, otherwise I think we should be looking for a new keeper this Summer. Doyley 7 - As reliable as ever. Fitz-Hall 6 - Not at his best but OK'ish Hoban 8 - Played well maybe well enough to have won his 1st team place back. Cassetti 7 - A good 1st half, not so good 2nd. Hogg 6 - did better than a lot of people are saying IMO. Abdi 9 - MOM he was excellent all night. Challobah 6 - Has loads of natural talent, but his inexperience is more prevalent than many say. Pudil 7 - A better game than many have given him credit for, he did OK up against Saha IMO. Deeney 6 - Not one of his better games, he seemed to pontificate to long on the ball last night. Vydra 6 - His worse game for a while, was it fatigue? Either way it was right to start with him. FF 5 - Has not played for some time so it was not surprising that he was rusty. Bottoccio - not on long enough I would have swapped him for Challobah at half time or soon after. I thought our passing was bad all night, even during the 1st half hour, and it went from bad to appalling after that, and that was pretty much throughout the whole team, we gave the ball away far too much!!!
Think people are going way over the top here.The first half I couldn't believe how bad Palace were.I couldn't believe a team of that quality was where they are in the league.We bossed them for nearly all the first half.2nd half, in fairness it all changed.Palace looked very dangerous and we finally saw the Zaha everyone bangs on about.Dunno,who that blonde kid was playing left wing was but he looked something special as well.Don't think anyone had an absolute 'stinker.Personally thought Deeney worked very hard, and you could tell Vydra was knackered.Felt bad for FF when he came on,made the effort and everyone was expecting him to turn it around but he looked off the pace. Almunia made two cracking saves in the first half,but i'm yet to see the apparent mistake he made for their goal.In terms of atmosphere, Palace were very good,but their was a 5-10 minute stage when we just went 2-0 up when they became very quiet.In fairness though,by the end most Watford fans were getting increasingly frustrated and they were out singing us.On a side note,anyone know what happened down the front of the Rookery?I was sat literally right next to the ginger guy and looked over quickly and saw a fight kicking off.
How many times did Zaha BEAT Pudil? Barely any, and considering how much they gave him the ball, Pudil did really well to hold him up that much.
It really wasn't a game of two halves, it was a game of 20 minutes us and 70 minutes them. We were just not really in it after we scored our second and by half time we looked absolutely knackered. I'd have taken a draw at half time, it was that clear what was going to happen. I don't bet on my own team normally but I was close to having a bet at half time last night on 2-2. Palace fans were good by and large, but as ever they had a few pikeys amongst them - a couple in the Rookery, a few in the Rous and a steward at the end told me a couple of Palace fans tried jumping over a gate to get in before the game but they managed to get hold of them. Classy as always. Before the Brizzle City game with the unforced changes we were flying, since then we have played sh!t lost to Brizzle, played poorly but got away with a win against Bolton and played poorly and got away with a point against Palace. Good to play badly and still pick up points but keeping the momentum going and picking up even more points would have been better. I was surprised a few subs weren't made earlier in the second half especially when it was clear Vydra looked knackered, Deeney looked half asleep and we were getting dominated in midfield. Geijo and Battochio for Deeney and Vydra would have helped I think. FF looked poor when he came on but he was coming into a game where we were already playing badly which is a big ask, and I am not sure he was the right sub for the situation anyway. Roll on Brum, hopefully we can spark back into life for the last 15 games of the season.
Should have made 3 changes at half time and switched to 3-6-1 (3-5+1-1) Battochi on for Hogg (pick the ball up from the back 3 and fecking keep it) Fessi on for Vydra (play deeper as an extra am) Geijo on for Deeney (hold the ball up and bring Fessi + Abdi into play)
What, sit a player on the bench for a month so he's rusty, then bring him on in a situation where we are getting mullered all over the pitch and expect him to somehow change the thing? Yeah I am positive we have lots of fans who might say that.
and calling someone dog **** from the safety of a keyboard is not offensive in your world?? He called you a ****** because you clearly are one
