I think what you’ll actually find the case to be is that most of us just have a sense of realism. Has Deeney been below his standards this season? Maybe, a little but not much. The red cards have been the major disappointment and the transfer speculation too. But no one is falling over themselves to praise Deeney week-in, week-out - go back and read the match threads and you’ll see that. Just a lot of fans talk about Deeney as if we have great options at the club outside of him when we don’t. ‘Oh and he managed to not get himself sent-off...’ 2 red cards hardly make him Lee Cattermole. The people on here who are supporting him, like myself, have also given him negative reviews when he’s been poor or sent-off etc. Fair and balanced. And some people on here who aren’t supporting him, also give their fair and balanced reasons why. But there are a handful who seem to have some blind agenda to just slag him off every week, even in the past two weeks when it makes them look silly. I don’t see one person on here who has praised Deeney every week blindly without fail. I do however see certain people on here who slag him off every week without fail. I know which camp is more accurate in their assessments each week.
And vice-verse. Deeney plays under Silva in a system that just does not suit him, and gets the blame for not scoring, the trecherous git. Deeney plays under Gracia in a style that does suit him, and predictably, as predicted, starts scoring. His detractors then get upset that they may have been wrong about Deeney, so accuse everyone else of sucking Troy's nob for showing faith in him. Top quality stuff. Very classy.
They don't loathe him, they resent him, for not being as poop as they regularly predict he will be. It's not about the club doing well, it is about them being right (or rather, not being wrong). Very similar to Silva's view of the world. IMO.
It’s lovely to see Troy back in the goals, and we can consider ourselves fortunate that he didn’t get banned for the gestures after scoring against Chelsea or he might not have been available, certainly for Everton had it been a two match suspension, and yesterday if it had been longer. It should be an interesting battle now to finish as our top scorer. Doucoure still leads that race but he’s not scored for several weeks. Neither has Richarlison. Deeney could still win that honour. This could also be our first season for many years that nobody has hit double figures.
Also could still be our highest finish. Crazy to think that now, remembering walking home from the Huddersfield game kicking a can down the road in frustration. Gracia really has been what Slither could never be, a decent and honest man. @moog are you sure you didn’t finish the bacon sarnies or did Deeney beat you too it?
What I see are a few posters that will not criticise his regular poor displays by not making any comment at all (hiding). But then leaping on the rare good performance as if they have been proved right all along. ...and those posters who denied that Deeney not scoring a goal from open play for 10 months was a problem, are now triumphantly boasting about how "right" they are by looking at 2 goals over 8 days. In my view, Deeney has only been playing well for two relatively short spells since the start of the 2015/16 season and has been relatively anonymous in more games than he has been influential. Those that look at merely the "goals scored" will disagree, but then they should also not bother watching a football match but just make their judgement on how we played by merely reading the result at the end of it. He has been proved very good at scoring penalties and that skews mere statistics. Obviously, most penalties are scored anyway, and an alternative penalty taker may have done almost as well. That is borne out by the fact that out of 1,997 penalties taken in the Premier League in total, 1,670 (83.6%) have been scored. Deeney has a personal penalty record of scoring 21 out of 24 or 87.5%. So he is better than average, but that 3.9% difference would only be reflected in his scoring one extra penalty over his career, than the average penalty taker. That is hardly huge, is it! Whilst I would concede that he has not necessarily been played to his strengths, I don't think he is quite good enough to regularly come out on top of the better Premier League defenders (compared with Championship defenders) however we play - so I often wonder what his strengths are. He has also not helped himself by often showing a poor attitude on the pitch, moaning and groaning rather than being encouraging and positive, and by not keeping himself physically fit enough for the highest level . However, Gracia said he is an overall good influence at the moment, on and off the pitch, and whilst he is scoring open play goals, scoring his penalties, looking more mobile and lively, creating and working for others, may that continue, as he is obviously worth his place in those circumstances. We are better, when he is playing well. But let us not pretend that he is doing it anything like often enough.
I agree with some of that and disagree also with parts. And I will always listen to people’s reasoned views that differ my own. I cannot speak for others but whilst I believe Deeney to be a mainly positive fixture in the team, I will criticise when he is not up to standard. By example, I have been very critical of Okaka in the past 2 seasons - I still don’t believe he is good enough. But I can appreciate their have been a number of times this season that he has had a positive impact from the bench and I have mentioned so when it happens. Maybe he had found his role within the setup and it’s one that works for both parties. I’m not saying I routinely get my opinions right but there are 2 or 3 fans on here (one in particular) who still criticise Deeney even when he does the things they say he can’t do anymore or hasn’t done for some time. To me, it looks silly. By saying Troy did well and his goals won us the points isn’t admitting defeat or saying they were wrong in the long-term. Much the same as me saying Doucoure was poor doesn’t mean that I think he’s terrible. I didn’t think we should have sold Troy in January in black and white terms. If £20m was offered, then I’d have given it serious thought but only if we could adequately replace him and that was never going to happen in that window. But for anything less than £20m, it wasn’t worth the risk and I think that has shown in the past few weeks. There’s a certain element of our fans who I think must believe that playing against PL defenders is easy and it’s quite simple to score a few goals. I think Troy did an amazing job in the Championship and I think he has done an okay job in the PL, maybe slightly better than that. He’s played his part in a team that has escaped relegation and been relatively safe 3 seasons in a row. He suits where we are as a team right now. It’s obvious that he’s better playing in a partnership but that isn’t the way we have played all season and this is likely to be our most successful season to date, regardless of the enjoyment levels. Gino and Co will be happy come season end, so why would we suddenly start games with 2-up-front? The summer is crunch time for him - because he might be replaced with someone who can play the lone striker role better than he, or maybe Gracia will have a Summer to work on a formation that includes two up front and we’ll see him fully prosper again. But he’ll do for now for me.
This is a club legend we are talking about. His statistics and importance to us over his lifetime is absolutely unquestioned. He’d have to have five terrible seasons in a row before I got fed up with him. He’s getting back to his best because the new boss has got round the ridiculous notion of him being a lone front man. I believe the same to be true for all three strikers at the club - they operate far better in a pair. Even the top clubs have moved away from a lone striker system (bar Spurs and Kane, who is the best at it) because unless you have a £100m man up top - it isn’t effective. Just delighted to see him back in form and goals. A Deeney winner always adds something to the enjoyment of a match.
Apparently Richarlison reacted very petulantly when he got subbed off. Did anyone notice this? Hopefully frustrated with himself and not a problem with Gracia!
Getting relegated with two different Premier League clubs and he's not much younger than Gomes. It's a no from me.
Yeah, it was pretty obvious. He threw his gloves to the floor as soon as he crossed the touchline and they landed in/near the WBA technical area. I hope the club fine him for being so petulant in public.
He needs a break. I'd start with Pereyra on the left and Hughes in the hole. Richie can be benched for a few weeks.
Y Yeah, he stomped of a bit and threw his gloves on the floor. I think he’s just dissapointed in his own performance.
Frustrated with himself I think. He always throws a strop when he gets pulled off, so I hear. It's good to see tbh, at least he cares.
Absolutely vital we rest him for his own sake. Seems strange Gray, Carrillo and Pererya easy to drop but Richarlison has been in the team pretty much non stop. He's earnt a rest.
Funny to think we started the season with those amazing away performances with new signings Carrillo, Gray and Richarlison cutting Bmuff, Soton and Swansea to shreds and later WBA and Newcastle. Amazing quality attacking football at pace. Now arguably the best starting 11 wouldn't include any of the 3.
1. There's no way I'd give up my time to shovel snow off a football pitch so that a multi million pound business could pay me in 2 pound snacks. 2. I was hoping the game would be postponed as the kids were moaning that I was forcing them to go. They had a point. If it ever got to court that I took a 4 and 5 year old to Watford vs. West Brom during the coldest snap of the year, I'd be banged to rights for child abuse. Thankfully their little minds aren't switched onto our legal system just yet so they just moan and nag. 3. I'm kosher
Ha my thoughts exactly on point 1 when I heard about it. Isn't it illegal to pay people less than the minimum wage anyway? I've a good mind to report the club to the relevant authorities.
Two wins, 6 points, 9th and a very happy eastcoastorn. Both games were hard to watch but I couldn't give a monkeys. It was worth the 448 mile drive just to see Deeneys winners. I can go to a toxic Arsenal on Sunday and hopefully enjoy watching their self entitalled fans implode when he scores again. There is something about beating Londons finest institutions that make supporting Watford worth it.
Don't know why but I am in a very good mood this morning. I might even go out in the garden and fill my garden recycling bin for collection tomorrow.
My thoughts in rambling, stream of consciousness order... Javi is a genius. There's no doubt in my mind that the 10 points he's gained us would've been 2 at most under snaky pants. He's had even deeper injury troubles and we're lining up with 2nd string choices in a number of positions, but the results speak for themselves. My only worry is that this is a simple case of "new manager bounce." I'd love to see what Javi can do over a season. His attention to detail and tactics, man management and humble demeanour are all very convincing, so I hope and believe it's effects can be long lasting, in fact improved upon once he has more talented players available. I just hope that the players don't down tools again once they've done enough, or lose their interest over a full season. I suspect javi has enough about him to avoid this, but new managers with a fantastic start have quickly turned into tired old managers very quickly at numerous clubs. On the effect of Javi, in addition to not being a narcissistic, reptilian shitbag, he's made a huge difference in a number of areas and his coaching is visible all over the pitch. I noted when full backs were caught out if position, a midfielder or winger was seamlessly plugging the gap and even saw Dockoorai drop to centre half at one stage, when Prodl, I think, was out of position. Our defending from corners is immeasurably improved (or measurably if you just say it's gone from non-existent to very good) and our own set pieces, whilst not quite there yet in delivery, are varied and imaginative, clearly showing work on the training pitch. The biggest factor, however has been the marked improvement in individual player performances, bringing a collective lift to the side and showing in results. Mapps, Prodl, Jolevas, Capoue and Deeney could all be in with a shout for most I proved under the Gravy Train. All unrecognizable from their December or January incarnations, when each was written off by most as having not future with the club. As for the game itself, I thought the quality was lower than Everton, but I still enjoyed it in the main. Observing the subtle and glaring improvements that are happening all over the pitch is a marvel to behold. People are critical of the display, but can you not remember some of the **** we suffered during that interminable run under the snake? Worse football and losses. When i saw the line up, with kiko and Delofeou out, there was only one option for Javi and that was to grind out a tough win. With out of form wingers and little spark elsewhere in the side, glittering football was always beyond us. What we contributed was far more progressive than West Hoof Brom, but was still pragmatic enough to compete at the required level. I am one of Carrillo's fiercest critic and lay claim to being the first on here to recognise he was a puff of fast juice, however I don't think he was as bad as some are saying in here, but shuffling off as he did will always exacerbate his uselessness in the eyes of fans who are rather unforgiving of such needless time wasting. Hughes was the injection of quality the game needed. What a gem of a player. He's going to become a legend for us I think, if we can meet his ambitions for 4 or 5 years. Deeney, much has already been said and I feel the whole debate is demeaning, even from the pro Deeney lobby. The facts as I see it are that he's performed poorly in most appearances under Silva, But, like many, has found renewed life under Gravy. Even before his goal and the 2 up top with Okaka yesterday, I felt he was playing miles Better than a month ago. He was running into the channels, moving for the ball and winning stuff to lay off to supporting players - the Deeney of old. The finish was the cap of a fine performance and the understanding with okaka looks to have lots of potential, at least as a plan b or last 30 minute gambit. I don't think there are many 'anti-Deeney' people (well there are a couple who consider him the antichrist) but a majority who felt he was poor for much of this season. Even during his worst performances, most of the criticism was tempered with recognition that he was a club legend, but seemingly in decline. In my opinion it's quite simple. He was mostly **** this season and now he's doing well, which is a good thing. The only thing better than a Watford goal at home is a Deeney goal at home, as despite the siege mentality around the man by his unnecessary defenders, when he scores, the celebrations are that much more elevated and ecstatic, because as much as the critics on the terraces and on here will moan when he's been poor, when he scores he lifts the whole club up and is still held in deep esteem by the fans.
He's a reminder of the old Championship days. We want expensive fancy 'Premier League buy' foreigners these days and he doesn't fit that bill. He cost a couple of quid from Walsall. Gomes, Guedioura, Abdi, Anya, Watson and others from the Championship era got the same treatment. From the usual suspect ****bucket posters as well.
This again? How long are we going to rest him for? We've got 9 games, and after that he's touting for a move to a 'big club' by all accounts. He's had a couple of weeks off during the international break (having played only 80 mins v West Ham in the game before) and been subbed after little over 45 mins in the two games since then. We don't face Arsenal until next Sunday, meaning he'll have played about 100 mins in a month! How much rest does a footballer need??
So did I. The carrot didn't though,that would have been daft! In other news,The Bat scored for Legover!
The game looked better on MOTD. Doucoure had a shot off the line which I missed and a penalty shout after a handball Gibbs was missed. In the first half, the ref ruled the lino for an obvious corner to us and gave a goal kick
