Never near danger? You seem to have forgotten the bad run we were on where we were on 31 pts and sliding down the table. Then we get 3 home games, 2 of whom were against teams in the bottom 3, and got the wins we needed.
But why? Do you really care that much about predicting what I will write? Some people on here are really weird.
No no. You discredit yourself. I do like much of what you post, but unfortunately you are unable to even consider for a moment that anything you have said maybe even a little ill judged. You go to the utmost pain to defend a ludicrous argument, then criticise others because they take care to ensure their argument to you is accurate and honest. However, as you proved to me in your ridiculous PM, claiming to be an influential 'in the know' at the club who is careful not to revel who they are because of that closeness, you are a fantasist who is prepared to stoop to any depth in order to hide their failings. It is a real shame, because you don't have to do that to interact with everyone on the forum. The above quotes are exactly as you said them, and are in the same exact context you said them. They are contradictory, and you make a virtue of it. Anyone else on this forum would say 'oops, did I really say that'. Well, yes you did say that. Just as long as everyone else knows. It does get very much under my skin when people are attempting to have a reasonable conversation about something, and then one person overwhelms it, not through wit or intelligence, but through belligerence, gain saying, and constant changes of argument. Thankfully it is there for all to see. I have gone on way too much with this, and I am sorry to everyone. I will put you on my ignore list not because I don't like you, or all of what you say, but because it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation with you.
I do think you have a bit of a problem with needing to discredit others and always needing to be right. Something you happily point the finger at others of being. I think it's you who is the fantasist, but I'm not going any further down that line. You are not an honest person and will happily spread rumour without substance. You hold grudges for weeks on end, holding people to account. It's just a football forum ffs. I truly hope you have put me on your ignore list, because you clearly have issues, but I very much doubt it.
HB I've come to the conclusion you make zero allowance for the injury crisis we've been through which has been amongst the worst in the division, especially considering who's been injured and when. Early in the season I had us on par with Everton and now we're starting to get back to strength I'll stick with it (Pereya being the difference). Another shock result against a probably on the beach City or Chelsea and we won't finish much behind the Toffees, you heard it here first. All in all we've been difficult for MOST teams to play against and that really is what counts in this league, don't expect sublimity as well.
To be fair, we'd only need to have lost the last 3 home matches and we would have been in more trouble than we're currently in. Troubling signs...
Yes GF, this league is very technical and many of the mid table teams like us cancel each other out, trying to stop the other playing. It leads to turgid displays because you can't afford to lose and eak out the points. The money does not encourage coaches to set up for free flowing football. That said there have been a number of those games (free flowing, exciting) this season, more than last year and I suspect (hope) for one or two more before the end of the season.
I do take the injury situation into account, but far too much has been made of it. It's like no other team had any injuries this season. All teams have injuries. How many games have we played well in this season? Have we been plagued by injuries all season? I just think it's an excuse made by people, including the head coach, to excuse substandard performances. We've had plenty of games where the team has been strong enough but has not played well. We've been well beaten in quite a lot of games this season. We've been 3-0 down at half time against Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs twice for example. Does this sequence of numbers mean anything to you? 0-1-0-1-1-0-0-0-2-0-2-0-0-0. It's actually our goal scoring sequence away from home since West Ham. It's pretty bleak reading. We have had the occasional good game though. United home, Everton, Arsenal away and West Brom home. Games where we played to a consistently high standard, but it's not been anywhere near enough times. There have been far too many Swansea, Sunderland, Stoke, Palace type performances. It's these performances that have been the main bulk of the season. There have been some dreadful ones as well. To blame it all on injuries is far too simplistic. It's far more than that.
HB , you have an ode to GT as your sign off . GT was an eternal optimist and positive thinker and a huge believer in the team ethic . What do you think he would have thought of your relentless negativity and your attention seeking, ego centric posts?
He would have appreciated the straight talking. But that's low, even for someone like you, to bring GT into this.
So to summarise the match threads this season: WFC appear to play with no passion and lose WFC appear to play with no passion and win WFC appear to play with passion and lose WFC appear to play with passion and win There's been a lot of the first and everybody goes into melt down. There's been quite a few of the second and everybody forgets about performance and talks about league position. HB1 repeats, on a loop, there is too much of the first. He repeats, on a loop, if some of the second had been the first then we would have been in real trouble. Some point to injuries, some point to the manager, some bring up the West Ham/Arsenal games as an example of the latter and want more. I love rationale debate...
What i'm most looking forward to in the last 6 games, is not having each thread massacred by the same members every time. Footballs all about opinions, so it will be great to be able to read everyone's opinions without having to trawl through the key tapping manure that appears on every other post after 5pm on matchdays.
We have never been near danger remotely, as in, we were what, 7 points from the relegation zone at worst? Near danger means either in the relegation zone at some point, or near to falling in it. Then your point is that because we've won these three games we've continued not to be near danger? 12 points clear?
In our first two seasons in the premier league we had runs of losses interrupted by the occasional draw. The occasional draw was changed to wins every other month. HB1 have a look at those two seasons results final points of 24 and 28 these two last seasons have been a walk in the park Compared to the first two seasons to complain is unwarranted!!
We are currently in the top 11% of professional clubs in the country...that's some feat for an old un to get their head round
I am pleasantly surprised at us being virtually safe with a few games to spare. There is little doubt that the fine margins of a football match could have meant a relegation fight if we had a little bad luck and I'm delighted that my fears were not realised. Walter and the players managed to get enough points despite rarely getting near their best. I was wrong to be so concerned. But, to anyone that likes football, the manner in which we have won the majority of our points has been depressingly poor. Despite our bad "goals against" record I don't think the defending is the main problem. For me, it is definitely going forward where we are so bad. We need to sort it out next season. At around this time last season we were assured that avoiding relegation was the only target and that next year will be better all round. This year we are being told the same. At some point that excuse becomes hollow. I see the criticism of HB1 and I disagree with some of what he says. But he and I would agree that we both think the squad is better than the football we have been playing. There seems to be two trains of thought. A. Those that believe our squad is no better than mid table and they are playing as well as can be expected. B. Those that think our squad is better than mid table and think we can do better - which includes myself. When comparing the two mindsets on here , it seems that those thinking "A" are positive, whilst those thinking "B" are just being negative. I think that is the wrong way round. I think that it is the "B"'s see the quality in our squad, see how much better we can be and get frustrated when we play so poorly far too often and see the opportunity we have. Whilst the "A"'s are satisfied with mediocrity, and can't see the potential quality of our squad, even as it stands - "we should be thankful for what we've got." It is they that are being negative, in my view. Anyway, as we are virtually a safe I can put up with a few more inept performances and I look forward to the "excuse" I mentioned earlier coming into fruition next season.
Entertainment and injury factors aside we are 10th. For the sake of argument let's say we end up 13th? Do you think our squad is better than more than 7 current premier league squads? I'm not sure it is so 13th feels about par to me over 38 games. 40 points with 6 to play is above par in my opinion. If the criticism is about entertainment then I'd be more tempted to agree but in terms of results I think there is no case (and I'm going to ignore the inevitable HB1 post where he will post at length that we are in fact 17th in the real "deserved" league table that exists only in his head).
It's an interesting debate. I'd always said I was looking for two seasons of survival by any means possible. We've achieved that and then some. 1 week in the relegation zone in 2 seasons is an excellent achievement. My expectations have been low but will change next year. I'd like to see something a bit more entertaining and some more youth involvement. Of course I also felt we were safe from late last year and said so. So the way I see it is I'm definitely an A. But I'm not negative at all. After all I had no corrosive over-expectation heaping pressure on so early in our new Premier League era and had clear confidence in our survival long before those of you in B grudgingly had to acknowledge it. I'm Mr Positive compared to you doomsayers.
Disagree. I think there are two trains of thought: 1. Premier league matches should exciting with an abundance of skill 2. Premier league matches are dull as dishwater with two sides cancelling each other out and too afraid to lose
I think we are an A, but could play better football We will never have the money to break into the top 6, unless there is another really bizarre season ahead, and i'm not sure we have the funds to compete regally with West Ham and Everton. Realistically we are competing with West Brom, Stoke, Southampton and 2 or 3 others for the spots between 9th and 15th, which is exactly where we are. Just because this is the best squad that we have ever had, doesn't make it a better squad than West ham, Everton, Southampton, Stoke etc have got. Two very different things. Having a 3rd year in the premier league will defiantly help us attract better players. Just look at the Townsend situation last year, he didn't want to come to us because he thought Newcastle had a better chance of staying up. OK he got it wrong, but that was a player and agents mindset. The longer we stay, the more established we are, the more chance we have of attracting better players. I'm of the old school that have seen us through thin and thinner, standing on a grassy bank at Scarborough, crammed in at Oxford and happy when we had a big crowd of between 7500 and 8000, so finishing between 9th and 15th each year in the top league, maybe with a good cup run, good players and some entertaining football would suit me. If we have a disastrous season and went down, would it be the end of the world ? no, we've been there before and could live there again.
:sign15: He's booked in for a lesson Wednesday lunchtime so he's keen enough! Anyone know his favourite biscuit? Garibaldi perhaps? Happy Easter everyone!
3 points job done. Always going to get whacked in this league by some of the bigger clubs but we have more than held our own against those around us and below. I feel the injuries have been an issue, i know all clubs get them but ours were all at the same time and injuries to Pereya and Zurate very bad luck. We are staying up. For Gawds sake try and be a bit happy. Watford in premier league and safety accomplished with games to spare.
Thanks Bert. Only thing is Bert you mentioned only two players and managed to spell them both wrong Bert.
Yes, Jumbo, I honestly think that if our Coach was getting the somewhere near the best of our full squad, then we really do have a good squad. Top half, for sure. The possible exception is we don't really have a natural goalscorer. Look where we are now. 10th. Yet we have let more goals in from set pieces than every other team (I think), an awful goal difference, bad injuries and by far the worst disciplinary record, a coach that cant speak a common language, a top scorer with 10 (3 penalties) and whilst I cant see the stats, I would hazard a guess that we give the ball away more than almost all other teams. I am sure that if everybody counted how many games we actually played a very good game, it might reach around 6 to 10 games out of 32. Think how dangerous we could be if we upped that to 20 to 25 games out of 32. Think how dangerous we would be if the opposition had to fear our forward players, whereas for 2/3 of the season we have been so predictable, a couple of decent men on Deeney and it effectively snuffed out our attacking threat. meaning that they could just attack us at will, piling on the incessant pressure on our defence. Think how dangerous we would be if we actually got our act together! ...and looking forward, think what we can do if we get our players fit before the season starts and don't leave ourselves so susceptible to injuries. Our squad is underachieving in performances, I have little doubt they can do much better. Edit, having noted one of the posts above, just think how better football would help a better atmosphere at the Vic and how it would help attract better players. We need to finish strongly and positively as it could be key in getting a goalscorer in the summer.
Very fair. What I'm looking for currently is a thing called 'incremental progression'. We finished with 45 points last season. So a target for incremental progression for this season might have been a points total starting with a 5. We won't now finish with that so this season might be best described as a 'treading water' season. The injuries will have taken their toll though. Maybe not the injury list in general (look how well Mapps has done recently and any good squad should be able to deal with an injury list) but long term injuries to Pereyra and now Zurate have meant the persistent absence of two key playmakers. Therefore, it's not particularly surprising that, for a club of our standing, our football has consequently been more dour than some of us would have liked. I am yet to be convinced however, that some of the injury list, particularly over the busy festive season, wasn't to some extent down to 'squad mismanagement' following the departure of Richard Collinge. Anyway, our new target for next season might be a points total starting with a 5 again then. Without the injuries we might have achieved that this season. But I know that your concern is also around the type of football played, rather than just targets, which I think I've addressed above. With Pereyra and Zurate back (plus whatever similar additions we make in the summer) more exciting fare is a reasonable expectation next season. If we finish with a points total starting with a 5 next season then the league position will take care of itself. And if we then aim for a points total starting with a 6 in 2018-2019 then the league position will again take care of itself and that's 'knocking on the door of Europe' territory. But there'll be no quantum leap into the stratosphere. Progress will always be incremental. Finally, posters will note that, with six games to go, we're mathematically certain not to finish last. Who'd have thunk it?
I think the 50 mark is a reasonable target for next season. However that jump from 50 to 60 is massive in my opinion. Needs about 5 top players added to even have a sniff of that.
Firstly, my observations are made in the moment and have been totally justified so far. I think if you polled the forum the majority would say our football has been poor for most of the season. Under GT and Boothroyd it was totally different. The club was different and so were the finances. Under GT we just had back-to-back promotions. We hardly invested in the team because we didn't have that kind of wealth. It was always going to be a one season adventure. The same applies to Boothroyd's team. It was full of youth players and journeymen pro's. But they both had one thing in common, they were both "teams" in every sense of the word. We do not have this right now, and it's this that fuels most of my concerns. Our team is full of players that have played at the top level for top European clubs, full of internationals and experienced seasoned pros. We've never had it so good, and yet the sum falls short of its parts. We are not a strong cohesive unit, we are a floundering one that only occasionally plays to its potential. It's been enough to limp over the line this season, but it's not good enough as far as I'm concerned. The table looks good, and that's partly down to being higher at this stage than 40 points should take you, but my point is we should have seen the level of performance like the Everton match or the West Brom game far more times throughout the season.
Today for me showed the good and the bad of Watford under Walter. At times we looked good, other times we looked dis-organised and lack direction. Safety has been assured and its never really been in doubt (even if I was panicking for a while) so fair play. The building blocks of safety were laid winning 5 of the 7 games against the current bottom 4. Do that again next year and we will be safe again. As for the game I thought Marriappa was superb as was Prodil except when he was trying to passing the ball. I thought Doucoure was superb winning the ball and Niang is a talent we just need to get the best of him. When he went up front he wasnt as effective. His best position is either side of Deeney in a front 3. Amarabat showed why I dont think he's all that. Did nothing today other than foul the full back. Either way a win is a win and 40 points is brilliant with 6 games to go. Swansea fan on 606 moaning about not paying to watch us...but he pays to watch his lot who dont care and are going down..good one. bet he would swap with us..
We still were not close to the bottom 3. Over the last 3 months or so I don't believe we've been any less than 7 points from the relegation zone. We simply were never in any danger
