Watford FC 0- AFC Bournemouth - 06/10/2018

Blind Lemon - now there was a man.
They didn't mess around with mealy-mouthed euphemisms in those days, did they?

 

Roger East. Though he's since passed it, he missed the first couple of league rounds this season.

 

To be fair, if someone came to me and said ‘Get yourself in shape over the summer - and yes, we know it’s been bloody hot every day - because when August rolls around, you have the exciting opportunity of having 30,000+ people screaming and abusing you every weekend and you’ll have the added bonus of never getting praise publically when you do well’ - then I wouldn’t get in shape either.

 

This reason does not apply to Moss on Saturday.

By the hour mark, about 12,000.

As the horrors increased, I occupied myself with 2 questions.

Is the real Harry back?

Where does RC sit?

To the latter, I would say in one of the 5,000 empty seats which garlanded the Vic at 5.15pm. Difficult to pin it down more specifically.

 

There was a clear (in my view) bias on Saturday. Every foul that could be given against us was given. Every booking that could be a booking was a booking.

Bournemouth got the rub of the green.

It doesn't take a nailed on penalty not given, a red card for a brilliant tackle or other such black or white mistake.

When a ref uses their discretion to have both of our centre halves booked within 15 minutes but let's of 2 of their players for equal or worse fouls it's enough to tip the game.

 

It's always been like this, with certain referees. I called it before the game with him, so it's not a hindsight thing and I'm not pleased to have been proved correct on this occasion.

There are a certain quota of matches you just have to right off throughout a season just because a referee. Already we've have had two results influenced by officials in the Spurs cup match and the Bournemouth game. We would have beaten Spurs, and may well have still lost on Saturday, but it wouldn't have been such a thrashing.

The four officials that are usually bad for us are Taylor, Oliver, Moss and Mason. All the others seem pretty fair, but we usually get a hard time when any of these 4 are officiating our games.

 

So why would they be bad for us as opposed to bad for everyone (outside the Top 6, I recognise there’s always been a bias there)?

 

You'd have to ask them this question, I'm just an observer of their practise.

 

But I’m not very clear on what you mean? You’ve said it’s not a conspiracy? But that seems to be what you’re suggesting....

 

It is easier to say when you don't go to the games, but this is just luck evening out.

We had the rub of the green at the start with other teams missing chances and us scoring. Now it is the other way around.

We are a good team, even our bad performances have not been that bad.

You need some luck in football, and we will get some again soon

 

Completely agree regarding "luck". I'd say we have played very well to well in 6 of the 8 games. Not a bad return. The issue will be if confidence is affected and that good underlying form dips.

 

In my view any suggestion of concerted bias against Watford, whether by referees, football authorities or broadcasting companies, is utter tosh.

 

I think it's quite obvious and what I've written is clear. There is no hidden meaning to it.

Why does saying that Anthony Taylor is a poor referee mean a conspiracy against Watford? I don't get it. He's just a poor referee, and after Dermot Gallagher's comments about him in Ref Watch, I would be surprised if he's on the roster for Premier League referees next season.

Michael Oliver has the ability to be a good referee, but usually comes down on Watford with controversial decisions. This is clear and has occurred many times in the past. Imo he likes to give a big dramatic decision, which will further his own career as it tells everyone he's not scared to make a big call, (be it right or wrong doesn't seem to matter), and it's unfortunate if you are the team that is in the way of that.

Mason and Moss seem to be a merge of the same person. Both are fairly poor in their fitness and decision making, which we've been on the receiving end of a few times in the past.

Generally, I think Taylor is terrible, Moss and Mason are just poor. Oliver makes decisions to help his career, imo, although now he has the recognition I believe he's craved, I think his overall officiating has improved, as he is not an up and coming referee anymore trying to make people take notice of him.

 

There’s no need to be snappy like you are at the start of this reply. I’m trying to have a discussion with you about it, not draw you into a slanging match.

What I don’t understand, is that you say these referees are particularly bad against Watford but you don’t believe it’s part of a wider scheme against the club - so I can’t fathom why that would be the case as it literally doesn’t have any sound logic to it IMO?

 

Presumably you mean this comment, which you mentioned earlier in the thread?

Surely Gallacher just means, given the context, 'use a different official' to help with the angles? Eg. The referee should be able to rely on the linesmen and maybe even the 4th official to help him out.

It doesn't read like an attack on Anthony Taylor.

 

Well I've taken the time to explain what I've said. I think it's very clear. Just read what is written and take it at face value. There is no hidden meaning here.

These 4 have given plenty of poor decisions against Watford in the past. I think that's beyond debating really. Go back and look at comments made straight after the games if you want to qualify that assertion.

I've given valid reasons for this. I don't know why you cannot accept that a poor referee is just poor. You seem to think that if someone says this, it means (or has a hidden meaning) that these referees are deliberately against us. That is your own interpretation, and I can do nothing about that. I've stated clearly my view and there's not much more that can be added to that really.

 

Did you watch Ref Watch? You can tell Gallagher was very disappointed in Taylor as an official. It seems a strange thing to say when talking about the Newcastle freekick incident against Man Utd. It went along the lines of "referees have to change their angle so they can see everything that's going on, or you can use a different official."

I think if he meant use one of his assistants, he would have said something like "....or you can ask your assistant to look at one area and you look at another". It would have been clear, as Dermot Gallagher is a very articulate, accurate, guarded person in the way he speaks. I believe he was having a dig at Taylor, however, I do accept your version could be correct, although unlikely.

 

All I can say is that my life is pretty plain, you don't like my point of view and I'm insane.

 

Not trying to speak for HB1, but one possible explanation is simply the wider perception that we're a dirty team. The stats show we commit more fouls, get more bookings and reds and so, it's self perpetuating. A ref making a marginal call against us is not as likely to be hauled over the coals if he's erred on the wrong side of caution, compared to if he sends off a plucky, handsome upstart from Muff or something.

The Deeney comments and the furore over the Capoue tackle will all contribute to this.

Maybe some refs are more susceptible to this sort of preconceived idea and act accordingly.

 

I understand all that and I don’t disagree with it. You’ve given reasoning for why you have your opinion. But I just can’t fathom the reasoning why certain referees would favour the other 13 teams over us in games (Top 6 excluded)?

I’m seeing suggestions that we have a reputation as the most aggressive team in the PL. Is that true? I don’t think I have ever seen us regularly labelled that way. A few times maybe but no more than a couple of other teams in the PL.

In conclusion, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the standard of officials is poor in the PL - and that there are a handful that are downright terrible. I just don’t think they are worse for us for some unwritten reason. If we come top bottom of the fair play table each season, I’d say it’s as much to do with the way the players behave as it is to do with the people in charge of a match.

 

No. And as much as I think Taylor is a prat, I would say the chances of him being demoted back to EFL football at the end of the season are next to nil. He's still considered one of the top officials. He's had two FA Cup finals in recent years and is still young enough to carry on for ages (he's 39 apparently). He also referees in the Champions League and has recently gone onto the FIFA list. Even if Gallacher did mean what you suggest he's only a pundit. He's in no position of influence.

Referees will analyse the teams they're officiating as much as anyone before a match. Trends and traits will be picked up on. Obviously a big part of that is simple professionalism but I expect some unconscious bias creeps in too.

 

Again, you're reading things that are not there, or making assumptions that are not intended.

I've never said it's only us that get a bad deal. We do get a bad deal more often than not, when one of those referees are officiating our games, but it's not exclusively just us. I'm sure Newcastle will say much the same about Anthony Taylor after their match at United. He missed a clear handball in the penalty area, which would have given them the opportunity to take a 3-0 lead. Mourinho could have been sacked after that and history is very different.

As a direct result of Taylor missing that incident, because he was not even looking, Mourinho keeps his job, and Newcastle are still winless, stranded at the foot of the table on just 2 points.

 

Is that a polite way of saying "cheating"?

We all know it goes on. Remember that astonishing admission from Mark Clattenburg a couple of years ago? He admitted to going into that match "with a game plan" .

"I allowed them [Spurs] to self-destruct so all the media, all the people in the world went: 'Tottenham lost the title.'

"If I sent three players off from Tottenham, what are the headlines? 'Clattenburg cost Tottenham the title.' It was pure theatre that Tottenham self-destructed against Chelsea and Leicester won the title."

"Some referees would have played by the book; Tottenham would have been down to seven or eight players and probably lost and they would've been looking for an excuse.

"But I didn't give them an excuse, because my gameplan was: Let them lose the title."

In this game all he was worried about was how he would have looked after it and how the media would portray him. He did not officiate the game fairly, without prejudice, and this guy was the top referee in the country at the time!!

How did he know the game would have ended 2-2? By keeping Spurs players on the field, when they shouldn't have been, he unfairly helped Spurs and disadvantage all their rivals.

As I say, it was an astonishing admission, but it proves that referees do not always officiate matches fairly, for whatever reason they may have.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42219327

 

No, because it's unconscious and not deliberate. It's human nature.

 

It irritates me how history has been rewritten about that season. It’s always implied that the title was on the line the night Spurs went to Chelsea and that they blew it by only drawing. In fact they were 8 points behind Leicester with that game in hand and just two more to play. The draw just mathematically confirmed Leicester as champions and they then went on to win the league by 10 points from Arsenal, with Spurs one more point behind.

But remember: Leicester didn’t win it because they were the best team. Oh no. It was because the ‘Big 6’ failed to turn up for 38 games.

 

Agree. Makes Clattenburg's comments and approach to the game even more idiotic though.

 

Just proves what a tosser Jon Moss is, so inconsistent.

Failed to give 2nd yellows to both guyere and smalling for conceding penalties. Wonder if it is because it is on TV or perhaps because conceding penalty is not an automatic yellow card.

 

The guy is an utter ****. He didn't give a second yellow because it was United, at Old Trafford live on Sky. He really needs to be struck off. The worst referee in the Premier League right now, and that's saying something.

 

It is if you're Kabasele

 

No goals conceded in the 2 games since he sent off Kabasele. Maybe the bloke did us a favour?