The Premier League - 2020/21 - All Match Discussion In Here

Will certainly affect my attendance if I can't see my 2nd-7th favourite teams and their superstars! I'm happy just to be on the same pitch as them as they stuff us 4-0 and often applaud the quality of their football.

 

Ben Foster, is that you?

 

I'd watch that. Corrrrr, Estefan....

 

Smaller worldwide fanbase though - and a part of this is to appeal to fans outside of each playing clubs own borders I imagine. Leicester are a better team and club than Arsenal - but not bigger.

 

I did figure that, but do Arsenal really have that many fans worldwide? They haven’t been any good for a long while. Meanwhile surely Leicester have a fairly significant fan base in the Far East now? What with their owners and sponsors etc. Of course, Arsenal have an American owner and it’s the American owners who are behind all this.

 

I agree but those lost points would just mean they don't qualify for a European competition they have no intention of playing in anyway. Not sure how much of a punishment points deductions are.

The only threats that will force a rethink are domestic expulsion and players banned from Euros/World Cups. But sadly those threats require governor bodies and associations to have backbones that have been shown long ago not to be present.

 

I think that this announcement is likely an opening gambit from the ESL clubs to secure the concessions they have sought repeatedly from UEFA (and domestic leagues) for some time: guaranteed qualification, greater shares/control over broadcasting revenue and an expansion of that revenue by increasing the number of continental games. Much of that is already achieved by UEFA new ‘Swiss League’ format (which from a sporting product point of view looks a bit ****, I must say.) If the sanctions proposed by domestic leagues and UEFA are significant enough, some sort of deal mid-way between the SL and this new UCL format will be struck: the UCL keeps its flagship teams on board, while those teams can continue in their domestic leagues. You have to wonder though if these concessions will prove worth the awful PR and burning the bridges with domestic fans that has arisen.

That said, wearing my Watford hat, I really hope it comes to fruition and we can wish good riddance to the Top 6. We have loved much of this Championship season: winning competitive games, playing for something at the end of the season, unpredictability etc - it’s all quite fun. Imagine competing for a place in mediocre European competition or even for the title with teams like Leicester, West Ham, Palace, Wolves etc, without having to endure the semi-annual drubbing at the hands of Man City. We could have something akin to the Championship but without the dire pitches and awful officiating.

 

Yeah I agree with a lot of this.

Disagree with your second paragraph though, if the Super League happens it will reduce the quality and attractiveness of the PL, and so reduce the potential ceiling and ambition of a club like Watford.

 

I actually wrote a parody post on here about 10 years ago which foresaw this whole thing.

A closed shop, franchise global league.

Now it's no longer satire

 

Next level Cassandra - even you didn't believe you.

 

I hope the ESL goes ahead and the six get relegated out of the Premier League. For the EPL they have to have faith that the product is bigger than the six clubs. At the end of the day, before EPL were Man Citeh, Chelsea and Spurs as big as (what i at least consider) the big clubs Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal? In my lifetime, four of the six have been relegated from the top tier (some more than once). Citeh were in the third tier.

It would take time but the EPL would create new big clubs. Just for arguments sake Everton, Leeds, Aston Villa, Leicester, West Ham and Newcastle. With the chance for other clubs to grow and resurge. Like Sheffield Wednesday, Wolverhampton and Werst Brom. We need to see it as an opportunity.

Money would pour into those clubs. EPL plus the prospect of the UEFA competitions would sustain them.

Taking three big London clubs out will create space for Watford, Palace, Fulham, etc.

It would not be the same, but the ESL is about changing to an American franchise model. If they win concessions from the existing structures, it will be about taking more money, guaranteed European participation and removing relegation. So the status quo is not on offer.

once they move down that path, i say get rid. As they say the first cut is both your best and hardest. EPL relegate them before the end of the season.

 

Yes i agree they need relegating to the Championship (that will boost that divisions income!). And then the premier league agreeing to promote the top four (3 automatic, 4-7 in playoffs) from the Championship, instantly reducing the Premier League to 18 teams, providing the winter break after Christmas, and space for the cup competitions. Then it will be just two up two down. So it will take the big six 3 seasons - minimum- to get back into the EPL.

UEFA stick to your guns, ban them from your competitions - starting this season. Take away the semi final places of Citeh and Chelsea, etc.

In future seasons, fine, have a Champions League winner play the ESL winner for some sort of European Super Cup - but basically cut them out of the UEFA pyramid. Only downside is that the Germans are going to dominate European competitions for a few years.

 

It's not just about the names of the top clubs, but also about the top players.

The EPL would not create "new big clubs" because the clubs in the Super League would continue to hoover up all the top players, and when all the top clubs with all the top players are playing in the Super League then that's where the audience will be.

The likes of Everton and Leicester will become increasingly irrelevant while stuck in the devalued PL, with the only solace being the chance to perhaps sometimes qualify for one of the remaining 5 spots in the Super League each season.

 

Firstly, on what legal basis? Secondly, you punish them for one season, but then they get promoted again and little has changed.

Ha, erm, UEFA would not "cut them out of the UEFA pyramid" while at the same time endorsing the Super League winner playing the Champion's League; it's a bit of a contradiction there...

Also, the Champion's League would become as irrelevant as the Europa League is now, so people would be less bothered who wins it. Unlike with the current Europa League, winners of the remaining CL won't even have the benefit of gaining entry to the superior competition, which is pretty much the main reason why most big teams continue to care about the Europa League still anyway.

 

Can we restart the intertoto?

 

The interesting bit is whether FIFA and UEFA would really stick to their guns and ban players from World Cup and UEFA competitions. That's the one big weapon that they have. Taking that thought further, I heard on commentator say that what this is is effectively creating the NFL. Not a terrible analogy. One unintended consequence of the ESL + UEFA/FIFA action however, could be a massive reboot of Players unions. The power of the NFL is somewhat counterbalanced by the NFLPA. Now, of course labour laws in the US are very different than in Europe and the UK, but there is 4.6 billion on the table. Anyone who thinks that the players are just going to say "right then, good on you, we're happy as we are" isn't thinking this through.

Now, what that does in terms of increasing or decreasing then likelihood of this and/or changing the money dynamics... you tell me and then we'll all know.

 

That’s a good analysis, but do the players think that their salaries are not going to be the next target for these owners, once they get rid of Sky and go for a direct subscription model. But i take a slightly different position, football may evolve into two distinct sports. The Americanised ESL and the traditional professional game. As you say people will have to choose what product they prefer. For most on a football forum, we have to hope that overseas EPL fans are as disgusted by this and reject it.

 

It’s a bit like the winners of the Rugby league playing the winners of the Australian rules football - its just a show case money raiser, not a serious competition.

 

There is a PL rule that member clubs aren't allowed to sign up for any new competitions without permission. And all 20 clubs have an equal say so they knew they wouldn't get approval.

It would surely boil down to what extent these 6 clubs have attached themselves to ESL and if its binding - but I totally agree, they won't be expelled. I'd like to see it threatened. And for them to start at the very bottom and not just the Championship if it was enforced - but again, it won't be.

I think they have all agreed to do the same things at the same time. Release the statement and then all resign from the UEFA elite club group en masse to show its not empty threats - and then see how the authorities react.

 

The clubs would welcome this. The players are their financial assets and don't like sending them away for international duty as it is - nothing in it for them. That threat will have no initial effect at all on the clubs and their owners. It'll need players to refuse to play for their clubs for them to care....

But again, its another thing clubs will have thought about - they'll know the authorities will back down because they won't want the worlds best players not taking part in their showpiece events. It devalues their product.

 

I read earlier it's a decision for the PL board rather than the 20 clubs. It's not a voting issue. Though I think there's a backup provision somewhere that enables the board to chicken out and revert the matter to the member clubs to decide.

 

Correct.

That's part of why I think the various Players Associations have yet to weigh in. I think this is far from over, but I've no idea how it will turn out. I could definitely see players wanting a LOT more money to compensate them for not being able to play fior their countries.. and of course, this is all about money.

This is the moment where all the non-club parties have the most leverage. The questions are, are they organised enough and united enough to do anything with it?

 

Spot on. The Super League lot have shown their hand and now are sitting back and waiting to see what, if anything, the opposition coalesces around.

 

Saw a tremendous suggestion earlier for killing this dead, no idea how feasible though. It was for the government to treat the new Super League as an unofficial competition and then refuse to grant any work permits for non-UK players. So they'd either have to move the whole club out of the UK (Dubai Red Devils, Riyadh Gunners, Boston Hotspurs etc) or fill it only with British players (and no-one wants to watch that).

 

They also can't play games without the approval of the SGSA, which is a Gov't arm, so they could stop them playing at their grounds.

 

The worst thing, IMO is how they're trying to dress this up as a move that's better for the game and how it'll improve grassroots and women's football. I'd almost have more respect for them if they just admitted it was all about the money.

 

That's a terrible idea as it could stop it happening. The government should be saying nothing and staying out of it. The sooner they go the better.
Short term pain, long term gain for everyone else.

 

I think you are massively downplaying the ‘short-term pain’ angle here. The short term pain will see a huge vacuum in the game from which some clubs won’t come back from. It isn’t as black and white as waving them off and tightening your belts for a year or five - even if we all wish it was the case.

 

Yes, the government has massive leverage here. There's loads of things they could do to knacker the idea without going for the outright ban option. Death by a thousand cuts basically.

 

The implications are mind boggling. On the assumption the TV companies would try to claw back money, it would make a lot of clubs immediately insolvent... unless of course players all agreed to renegotiate their contracts. You assume they wouldn’t but then if there is no club to pay them? Yet what about below the PL? The TV money is a pittance anyway and they wouldn’t be affected (directly or immediately at least?) hard to contemplate exactly what would happen and what the impact would be.

 

Do you actually think it'll turn into a rugby-type situation where the defectors will gradually create a new form of association football?!

 

Saw a suggestion that this could also indirectly be a death knell to Scottish football - as if the PL chooses to restructure itself, it could open the door to Rangers and Celtic being invited to take part to increase revenues etc.

Can’t see it myself. But there again, I wouldn’t bet money against anything now really.

 

This summer with Watford showed what PL clubs will have to go through. Cut £50m plus. Its not a total car crash. We might even have a head start.

 

Yes, on paper it sounds massively exciting for a club like us, we'd actually be able to challenge in the top flight of English football, but would we even be able to survive it seeing as there'd be a massive drop in interest in the rump of what is now the Premier League and Football League?

 

I take your point and no one can know the impact. But a stand has to be made against this, you can be sure there will be more pain for everyone outside the ESL in the years to come. The current league will at best be a side show to the ESL.

This may be just an indication of the way the world and sport is going, but I do not agree with it or like it.