Patriotism & the British national anthem

Evening all.

The ridiculous obsession Yanks have with their national anthem and singing it at every given opportunity (before school, before all sporting fixtures) now has me convinced that it's nothing more than a form of indoctrination.

This has got me thinking about the British national anthem. Why do we all sing it? I certainly am not religious, so don't believe in God. I also couldn't give two ***** about the queen. You know, it's funny. I used to get annoyed at certain England players when they wouldn't sing the national anthem before internationals. I would question their integrity. Now I honestly don't care in the slightest, and think that just perhaps, they feel the same way that I do.

I think my recent thoughts have come about from reading about the African American football players who have been kneeling during the national anthem, and it's really got me thinking about ours.

I'll be straight here, I'm not feeling very patriotic at the moment and I've little interest in singing our national anthem the next time it appears on TV during the World Cup for example. Anyone else feel the same?

 

Hasten to battle, men of Bayamo,
For the homeland looks proudly to you.
Do not fear a glorious death,
Because to die for the country is to live.
To live in chains
Is to live in dishonour and ignominy.
Hear the clarion call,
Hasten, brave ones, the call to battle!

 

I feel proud when I hear it and sing it during events ( not very well) Living in Canada they're a bit like the yanks as its sung before all sporting events and every morning my son stands and sings at school (this is optional ) it brings a sense of belonging and all the Canadians know the words to their anthem as well as the French bit, I'm in favour and would bring it in to schools in the uk if I had my way.

 

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

It's an awful boring repetitive anthem

I'd much prefer something stirring like Jerusalem

 

Yellow by yawnmongers

 

It's not dated well. Boring and meaningless. Time for a new one.

They sing their national anthem in school in Australia at assembly. I like their attitude to their nation. Proud but not aggressively nationalistic.

 

There are already Palestinians and Jews fighting over it. I don't think we should join them

 

Quite. We need to be looking at places like Jerusalem for potential trade deals.

 

Those dark satanic mills turn an impressive profit.

 

Wasn't (isn't?) this an allegorical reference to "Oxbridge"?

 

Don't like it but understand the historic value of it. Option 3.

 

Will never sing it.

 

It's the anthem and has been for a long time and don't understand the need to change it. I will always sing it. I do love Jerusalem though and when I was following the England cricket team I always enjoyed singing this at the start of the day

 

There seems to be a growing feeling that patriotism is a bad thing.
Personally i feel it's like most things.. ok in moderation.
Sadly though people cant be trusted to do things in moderation and we end up with "if you dont like our flag.. **** off!"
Yet another thing that's got confused and been turned into something to divide us up and install mistrust in each other.


As for God Save the Queen.
I think most people agree that there are better choices. Namely Jerusalem, Hope & Glory and i'd throw in one other, I vow to thy my country. None of them are as overtly religious or royalist as GStQ. They are also better pieces of music.
I see nothing wrong with having a new anthem for England, as GStQ is the UK anthem... England doesnt have one.

So my suggestion is to install a new anthem for England, keep the old one for strictly royal occasions.. or resign it to history.

 

Certainly not Land of Hope and Glory, which is a nasty, jingoistic, colonial song about expanding the British Empire and should be consigned to the bin of history.

 

Cant hear it myself..






Seriously though it's about interpretation isnt it? Some have said the same about Vow to Thee.

 

Like the post. Elgar hated the words put to it.
The French and old Soviet anthems are the best music - either would compel me to invade Poland

 

My The Proms aren't what they used to be.

 

No-one cares about God or the Queen. I don't mind Blake's' And did those feet, but it carries an intended meaning in direct opposition to the meaning that the idiots who love to sing it have derived from the words. Land of Hope and Glory is a bloody horrible song for the reasons others have said.

There's only really one option left:

 

I'd wager more people care about God and the Queen than have ever cared about you.

 

I'm not sure i'm a particularly good gauge of UK wide public opinion. But fair enough.

 

I don't believe in the monarchy nor god so don't sing it. I'm very much in the minority at England away games.

 

They couldn't afford the orchestra that year.

 

Or the flags and bunting apparently.

 

Living abroad has made me examine my own inherited nationalist biases and I have come to realise what a silly thing they truly are.

Sometimes seeing a trait in others can make you examine your own upbringing. Seeing the extreme lengths many Americans go to fly their flags, sing the anthem, etc. and the vitriol directed at anyone perceived as not toeing that line provided a degree of insight into my own upbringing. Granted, the UK isn't quite as on the nose about it, but it's still present.

It's amazing how many unquestioned truths about your cultural upbringing living abroad can force you to question. Seeing the ugliness present or absent elsewhere is a very good teacher.

 

If intended as a serious remark, then yes you're probably right.

If intended as a dig, then I have to ask, have I done something to upset you?

 

Yeah, cause it's not as if any Communist regime ever got involved with empire building, invading other countries or enforcing their will on others.

 

Good thing 'The Red Flag' has nothing to do with Communism then. Communists would thoroughly disagree with the songs core message which supports individual liberty through collective action - rather than an authoritarian state.

Also, it was a joke. We all know that the national anthem should be that Ant and Dec world cup song or The Archers theme tune.

 

To be fair, almost all national anthems are about bloodshed and glory. The exception being Spain's, which has no words as they couldn't agree what they should be

 

Ah fair enough i'd always presumed.. wrongly.
Anyway i love Billy Bragg. Ever since i saw him by chance in around 83. I dont always go along with the politics but i love the ethos & passion of the man and of course the music.



PS Let's settle on the Archers then. No words to think about the meaning of and it's hummable.. sort of.

 

He's responding to the post immediately before his.

 

It's called "Barwick Green"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barwick_Green

The Braggmeister's version of Jerusalem. IMO, only this or "I vow to thee" come anywhere close to "Bread of Heaven" or "Flower of Scotland". But it's a shame, as Runkel says, that the meaning of Jerusalem has beccome lost/subverted.