Re Ellington they would have happily taken less, it was just that we kept offering them more, I think we can blame Ashton for paying stupid money.
Right... but won’t there be more managers floating around to choose from at the end of the season than now?
As football fans we tend to have long memories of injustice. Gray/Everton 1984 Wembley will never be forgotten. One that rankles with me is Oldham tranferring Paul Atkinson to us. We offered £100k and Oldham asked for a bit more and it was going to a tribunal. Just before the tribunal we sold Luther Blissett to AC Milan and Oldham upped their asking price and got £175k for him - more than they had originally even asked. We were forced to buy him at that price - we were not even allowed to walk away. Dirty shabby little club - and Atkinson was rubbish and only played a handful of games for us and went back to Oldham at a fraction of the price we paid.
I actually met Paul Atkinson on holiday in Cyprus. He's a nice chap and we traded Watford stories for the afternoon. He spoke about that deal and was embarrassed that Oldham did this. It was not of his doing though, just the owner saw an opportunity to make a fast buck. He was the sub for the FA Cup final and got a medal which he said he was very proud of. An FA Cup runners-up medal, not a loser's medal
Good point - so we did pretty well overall - but that has never stopped me disliking Oldham (not Paul Atkinson himself though as it was the club not the player)
Yes, but if jobseekers know there's an offer on the table.... And it's easier to tap up somebody already in a job if they know there's a vacancy
Well, Mick McCarthy was being suggested by SSN at lunchtime. Which rather underlines my sense of puzzlement about getting rid of Pardew now and not waiting to see who is around in a couple of months.
Maninblack is now trying to get fired from his job so he can donate part of his severance pay so you can do just that
Maybe not for his football, but for his honesty - perhaps. Glad we're not in a position to have to look at employing him though.
Getting rid of Pardew now is just to save money. They have put a caretaker in there and will pick a permanent manager in the summer. They are admitting they are down.
I could see us failing to get another point this season - Palace and Newcastle at home should have been six points for us but in the current form? Huddersfield away - ought to get something but will we? You can write off games against Spurs and Man U. I would still expect us to stay up - thanks to 3 or 4 worse sides - but it is looking very much like the end of last season now with what seemed to be mid table comfort exchanged for one or two places above relegation. So what happens then?. Another change of manager and groundhog day (season) starting again in August? At some point this merry go round has to stop. I dread to think what will happen if we get a bad start to a season - the last three it has only been good starts that have enabled us to weather the collapse. I feel we should now stick with Gracia but look to bring in two or three far higher quality men at the back. A team builds from a solid defence and we do not have that. Any money from Richarlison or Doucoure needs to be spent upping our defensive quality.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43622876 Found this article about Mick McCarthy interesting. Talks about how he feels knowing he won't be in charge and got me thinking about our end of season dips. Maybe Gracia already knows he won't be here? Certainly appropriate for the last two managers (QSF and Walter) released in the summer anyway
There’s a decent manager doing pretty well in the Championship right now. 20 matches unbeaten with Fulham. Joka something?
I believe the manager is the cornerstone of any team. The same players will get different results depending on the skill and ability of their manager. However the manager equally can only do so much with any given group of players. Pep Guardiola could not win the premiership with Accrington Stanley as the players are simply not of the right quality. Given we have now seen four managers seem to face the same problem at Watford you have to start to wonder whether any manager could do better with our players. I accept that some tactical nous and ability to use substitutes better would help but it is not all. In terms of skill they are roughly the equals of all the teams between 7th and 20th - there really is not an awful lot of difference. How many players from those teams would we desperately like to come to us? The fact that they have not grown up in the English game perhaps means they have a different view of playing. The effort required week in week out is perhaps not something players used to a different regime will adapt to. Training - do we do things differently? Commitment to the club - we often hear comments that the English fans are more passionate about their local team. Injuries - are our training / playing styles causing excess problems? I don't pretend to have the answers but before we go down the route of kicking out yet another manager I think the Pozzos need to consider whether our current players are really committed to us or whether they laugh and know it is the manager not them who gets the bullet. I am not sure there is not a toxicity within the dressing room and that some players have got bigger than their boots and instead of acting like leaders and supporting other players whether they themselves are the problem. At the end of the season I think they are certain players we would be well shot of.
Warnock's doing pretty well also. Neil Harris is the best manager in the Championship in my opinion, considering what he's working with
Can’t really disagree. However, the type of players you are describing at the end there sound to me to be the likes of Capoue, Holebas etc. And the fact we have given them new contracts suggests we don’t have a handle on the situation whatsoever.
Hopefully giving new contracts is as much about maintaining a sale value as necessarily keeping them here
And a goalkeeper. And a pacey winger. And someone who can take a corner. And someone who can score a free kick.
I have to agree with you. I struggle to find a valid reason for giving Holebas an extended contract. His performances have been really poor this season and do not merit reward. We really should be looking at signing much better players than him. The extended contracts for Holebas, Cathcart, Prodl and Capoue I find a bit worrying. It's not that I think they're terrible, but we do need to improve on these guys. The only thing I could think of is having an established squad base. There is advantages to having a few players around that know the club. It brings a bit of continuity. Apart from Holebas, I believe the others are good characters to have around the place. I don't believe the contracts are with a view for getting more money in the summer, as I don't think clubs would pay for them. I think it's to keep some continuity and we will build on this, at least I hope this is the case. We can't have another season with having the likes of Holebas, Prodl, Mapps, Janmaat across the back-line. They are just not good enough, and the league table will back that statement up. Prodl will now be around for a long time, so will Capoue and Cathcart. They are good pro's and good characters. I can only think Holebas will be used as a backup next season and they will ship out Zeegelarr then sign a new first choice left back.
Whatever the merits of the players the attitude of the dressing room needs to be sorted. Players know that the manager will be gone if they underperform - so how can a manager have any real influence over them. While we have players such as TD who has shown himself to be mediocre or worse at this level ruling the dressing room we have a toxic atmosphere. TD clearly believes his own hype. He said players know more than fans - blindingly obvious - but does not say how the fans are wrong. Tell us TD what we are missing. Take out our first 4 games and we have earned less than a point per game this year 29 points from 30 games. So TD tell us the player view of how good that is. We need to clear out players who do not want to fight for the club. Whether or not we change the manager will only bring more of the same while these players remain.
