Pardew gets the push at West Brom so that they will be on their fourth manager of the season at the next game. Where is the media shock and horror? West Brom are on something like their 8th manager in 5 years yet it is always us that gets used as an example of chopping and changing managers. Goodness knows what will happen if Gracia does not survive into next year - there will be further demands to curb our excessive managerial changes. Personally I think we will get about another 8 points and roughly equal what QSF achieved and expect Gracia to be given a chance next year. However if we get hammered at Spurs and Man U and lose a couple of our home games and end up with only another point or two will he be safe?
Ill think we will get 1 or 2 more points. We are in the horrible bit where we almost, but not quite, completely safe. If we were over 40 points players might relax and go for it in terms of points as nothing to lose. If we were much further off we might, might, see more fight for points. As it is it's all a bit meh.
On that basis I think he will be gone in the summer. Which is a shame, I think on balance with what he has to work with currently he should be given a chance. holebas isn't his fault and the defensive frailties he has inherited aren't his fault
There are two reasons: 1. The media struggles to understand the Pozzo model. 2. More favourably to them, we got rid of QSF and Silva when mid-table; and even Wally could be said to have been jettisoned when he had kept us up comfortably (I know we finished 17th, but we weren’t in real danger of going down). That’s totally different to getting rid of a manager when the team is rock bottom: much less comprehensible to an outsider.
Agree with your first point Keighley - but why do the pundits fail to add up manager numbers and see we are not exceptional any more. Second point though is only valid for QSF. He had a successful season overall - but it was the second half performance that unnerved the Pozzos. We got to the end of the season on terrible form. Slither though sacked himself effectively by applying for a job elsewhere and then switching off for us. Also Oscar Gracia left for reasons of health pure and simple and McKinley ought to have been called a caretaker manager.
Yes, I agree - but I don't think the media looks behind the league table positions to the underlying form or other factors (except for the big clubs, eg Chelsea and Conte). And, to be fair, do we look behind the league table position for others? The sacking of Puel by Southampton looked baffling from the outside but I recall hearing a number of Saints fans on the radio saying that the football was dire (bet they wish they hadn't binned him now though!). It's lazy on the part of the media, I agree - but I can see why they take the position they do. And most of the media commentary I heard on Slither's sacking was supportive of us. I am actually a bit puzzled by Pardew's sacking. Why now and not at the end of the season? Surely they don't realistically expect someone new to keep them up - do they?
Because they see that we have done it every summer we have been in the PL - when they believe that the only goal we have as a club is survival, regardless of the people in charge of the club telling them otherwise. In their eyes, QSF and Walter achieved that so were treated disgracefully. As for the original question, I think it’s 50/50. We have solidified under Gracia but only at home. Chelsea aside, there hasn’t really been much to get excited about and even in that game we nearly threw it away against 10 men, regardless of how well we played. I doubt so many would be happy with him had we drawn that 1-1. If we get into the mid to high 40’s for points, I expect he’ll be given the chance to stay. If we struggle over the line, I think he might get a handshake for the work he’s done and Gino will move along to another name that he undoubtedly will already have in mind.
The Puel sacking was especially odd. The missed out on qualification in Europe by one place. As you say their fans may not be so pleased now but their loss is Leicester's gain.
I'm a bit puzzled by Pardew's sacking, too. Presumably he was hired on the basis of a bit of a reputation as a quick-fix, new-manager-bounce sort. That didn't work, but the team aren't very good, even Pulis wan't getting much out of them. (&, whatever you think about his teams, he does what he does very well). Is this headless chicken stuff, or have they got somebody lined-up for a longer-term rebuild job? Maybe (maybe not) it's worth noting he left by 'mutal consent', not actually sacked. WBA have been the ultimate bounce-back club into the PL; hence 'boing'; but the managerial team was changed. I wonder if somebody will slither in.
Maybe the WBA owner got rid of Pardew because he could. Although a trifle odd to our eye, WBA would be a trophy asset & throwing your weight around is one of the perks of being an owner.
Yes, but they were 17 points worse off than the previous season, and only 6 points above us in 17th. They played turgid, defensive football for the vast majority of the season. You'd struggle to find Southampton fans even now who think getting rid of Puel was a mistake. It was his replacement, and possibly even more importantly continued failings in sales and recruitment, that led them to where they are today. Just as being fired by Southampton does not make him a bad manager, we can't judge Puel solely by his tenure at Leicester in comparison to it either. At Leicester currently he has several players who are on a whole other level to what he had at Southampton; they have nothing to compare to the likes of Mahrez, Vardy or Ndidi. It's not even like he's doing so incredibly at Leicester; they're 6 points ahead of us, on 43 points. They're below Burnley, despite having a vastly superior squad and far more money (although that's true of many of us ). Their getting rid of Puel probably bears closer resemblance to us and Quique than anyone else, and their fans are similarly forced to deal with all kinds of whining and awful armchair analysis from outside fans who don't watch them or follow them through a season. The difference is we have competent owners working on a plan for the good of the team, whereas in the past few years, the hierarchy has changed considerably at Southampton and greatly reduced its competency, leading them down this path through a combination of lack of planning, poor recruitment/a failure to adequately replace sold players, and a baffling choice of Puel's successor in knowingly-defensive Pellegrino.
Virtually all teams sacked their managers if things go wrong. We could keep Gracia for a couple of seasons, yet the label "Watford, a club that sacks all their managers" will stick. Ignorance is high when it comes to the media. They are pretty baffled why Watford supporters think so highly of Gino. I know that irks quite a few. There are some real hatchet jobs out there that gave us a bad reputation early on and that has stuck. They see Watford as a bit of a basket case, but very few will acknowledge the model is a good one. I saw recently Tim Sherwood openly admit he liked Watford's model. The guy interviewing him nearly fell off his chair, and with a chuckle asked "really?" as if that was the strangest thing anyone could ever say. The thing is, apart from us supporters, no one gives even a passing interest in Watford. Nothing resonates, unless there is an unusual occurrence, and the more negative the better. We are sneered at or condescended to on a regular basis. Very few, if any, will say, wow, what a fantastic job the owner of Watford Football Club is doing. Look at all those that have fallen by the wayside.....Leeds, Forest, Wolves, Villa, Sunderland etc......but this small town club are right up there, surviving in the toughest league in the world with modest means. Nope, we get no credit whatsoever. I think it's distain born out of jealousy for the most part.
Presumably WBA told Pardew he was not going to be the manager next year in the championship, so he upped sticks straight away. They may struggle next year, more like Sunderland than Burnley. Dyche and his squad were able to approach relegation almost as the upshot of Premier League testing. They motivated themselves and applieed what they learnt. They ran away with the Championship and have reaped the benefits by building a bulwark now. But continuity might be a double edged sword if he left and the replacement could not either maintain what they currently have or impose an alternative successful way of managing the squad. I expect our way with a head coach surrounded by a permanent infrastructure may be more durable in the long run. Southampton obviously thought so but it has not been the case this year. mind you they did sell their most significant player at Christmas. a bad idea in a squad lacking goals to then weaken your defence.
Some good points you make Chumlax However Koeman was always going to be a hard act to follow and you do not give Puel credit for getting them to the League Cup Final where they only just lost to Man U. Still like at Watford the push seemed to be a terrible end to the season - that perhaps and the quality of football. You are a bit harsh too at Leicester - only 6 points ahead of us? Look where they were when he took over. In 23 games he has got 35 points.
Yeah, fair, I don't mean to denigrate Puel in saying that. In saying we shouldn't just judge him on Southampton or on Leicester in comparison, I really mean I'm not attempting to judge him at all. I know that he was highly thought of at Nice, too. I'm not denigrating him at Leicester either, just expressing my belief (which honestly I saw someone else say and agreed with) that just because he's done solidly with Leicester (which includes having a much better and more cohesive squad, with some genuinely top class players) doesn't necessarily mean we can, from that, judge that he might be better at Southampton this season, especially when the real empirical evidence, of him at Southampton the previous season, quite possibly suggests the opposite.
I'd say WBA is in a bit of trouble from the top down and the new owner, Guochuan Lai, is either trigger happy or is trying to restructure the club. November 20th - Tony Pulis sacked. November 29th - Alan Pardew appointed. February 13th - John Williams (Chairman) sacked. February 13th - Martin Goodman (Chief Executive) sacked. April 2nd - Alan Pardew sacked. And they're rock bottom of the Premier League. Who'd-a-thunk-it? All they need to do now is wait for Sam Allardyce to become available, appoint him then sack him as they're relegated to League 1. They enter insolvency at this point before the club shrivel like a salted snail, disappearing from peoples memory forever. Which would be a shame as I quite like the nickname 'the Baggies' and that they have the oldest name for Great Britain in their moniker.
In your list you missed four Baggies players stealing a taxi in Spain Frank Skinner would cry if what you say happened.
I was thinking of the major sackings recently but yes, four senior professionals half inching a cab doesn't bode well any way it's viewed. As for Frank Skinner, well, he has Adrian Chiles to comfort him if it really did all go Allardyce shaped for them and as much as I like Skinner (at times) the Adrian Chiles effect balances out those feelings.
How did Leicester get so good? Less than 5 years ago we beat them to get to the Championship play-off final. We had been much the better side that year. The next year they went up - a year ahead of us - and went from strength to strength.
In my few encounters with them, I reckon their fans are some of the most reasonable around. I hope the new man isn't the gunslinger we see in his actions. Could mess up a good club. (Re Skinner please see my previous comments at his redemption & renaissance via Portrait Artist of the Year. In harness with Joan Bakewell.)
I've no desire to see WBA disappear completely - or any other club for that matter - but once a side gets relegated from the Premier League it can become a slippery slope with the wrong set-up and/or owners who stop investing. Not to say Lai is that type but once that relegation hits... Portrait (& Landscape) Artist Of The Year are very good programmes and shows Skinner in a very good light.
Yeah, crazy eh. I genuinely think you can't overestimate the impact of Mahrez; he didn't sign until January 2014, and even then it was from a 2nd division French team. Nobody could have foreseen quite how he would blossom so quickly into an almost world class player, and coupled with the also really-rather-serendipitous Indian Summer of Vardy's blooming into what appears to be a genuinely international class striker, they pretty much had the ingredients right there. Once they had those two working at that capacity, realistically above all that was expected of them, and Ranieri had instilled the right system, attitude and mentality into the team as a whole, they've just rode the crest of their success from that point, and leveraged it into cementing themselves into an upper half of the table Prem mainstay. That success, and those players, meant they could then attract further players of that level, like Adrien Silva, and Vicente Iborra, and why they could lure Harry Maguire from Hull when they went down. It would appear to be a very well run ship, and of course they also benefit from a large, captive support base. Still, even they had to get rid of Ranieri because of genuine relegation concerns the next season, and then Shakespeare this (although he was never going to be a truly viable managerial option, if we're being honest), so it still goes to show how volatile the Prem can be outside the top 6. Survival is all.
The combination of Mahrez & Vardy is phenomenal. A little like Gerrard & Torres. To rise from relegation fodder to top half status, having an outstanding unit & imposing your way of play are crucial. Burnley's defence is a good example. Lesta have been excellent at playing to their Mahrez/Vardy attacking strength even when Kante & Drinkwater left. And recall on that day in May 2013, Vardy didn't get off the bench, Kane was a second half sub & the sainted Vydra was the star striker on show.
They last 'bounced back' in to the EPL in 2010 and have gone through a few managerial teams since. And, from the noises coming out about the state of their finances I predict that a long stretch in the Championship lies ahead of the Baggies. Good. Serves them right for screwing us for Ellington and paying us a pittance for Paul Robinson. And, of course, Adrian Chiles is a Grade A ****
Irrespective of their interactions with us in the past, or their financial and team management at present, West Brom are a good, solid, real football club with real supporters unlike the ‘showbiz’ clubs with their bandwagon jumpers, tourists and half and half scarves. I for one will be sorry to see them leave our division and hope they recover soon.
we'll get 7 more points, Gracia will stay, although his not good enough at this level We'll be bottom 3 from the start of next season and he'll be sacked at the start of the October international break
Because they accept that they're going down and want to get someone in quickly so they can start to rebuild the squad knowing what kind of style they'll be playing
Pardew (who I quite like) will now have enough cash in the bank to go on a permanent safari/cruise until he pegs out. My advice would be to do that. I know I would.
Pardew was a very honest (although limited) player whose claim to fame was playing for Palace, Charlton and Barnet not to mention non league for the likes of Wyteleaf, Corinthian Casuals, Epsom and Ewell, Dulwich Hamlet. Looks to me as he he must have had a tag in his playing days stopping him from playing outside a small radius of Surrey! His managerial career is equally inspiring Charlton, Reading West Ham, Southampton, Newcastle, Palace and West Brom. I think he could afford to give 75 percent of his money away and still live comfortably for the rest of his life!
Is he Grade A, though? I only ever on the Sunday MOTD but he seemed a spectacularly self absorbed & self satisfied young man. Grade C. For ****.
