Fair enough to Posh for asking for him back if they were going to sell him on deadline day, and I understand why we didn't fancy that, but what I'd like to know is if we were sniffing around for him before then, if we just rocked up on deadline day with a £2.5m bid, it reeks of a pointless bid to placate the fans
Kyprianou's contract will only have 1 year left in the summer. Although they've rejected £2.5mil for him now they may indeed end up selling him for less in 6 months.
I’m nowhere near as anti-GP as many on here, but I think the main concern looking at the financials is that the season after next (if not sooner) we’ll be back to where we were before he took over, but with the added burden of millions of debt. That’s not a knee-jerk internet warrior comment; it’s a rational feeling of sincere concern. Did I enjoy ‘the ride’ up to the cup final? Yes, mostly. Would I have chosen it if the concomitant outcome proved to be potential implosion of the club? No, definitely not.
I see where you're coming from and although I think Gino's time is up I'm grateful for the first half of his tenure and the memories that has given me. Is it ending well? Probably not but actually I would take that period of 2012-2019 over being mid table Championship club that never does anything even if it does mean things may be tough for a while.
If we're shopping at Peterborough also worth taking a look at Kwame Poku, whose contract will also only have 1 year left come the summer.
I do understand, clearly we don't want to be in the position we were in the 90's but I would still take the glory years otherwise where's the point
More than likely we did our usual thing of fannying around trying to get him on the cheap instead of offering what Posh want for him because we seem to think we are master negotiators . Desultory first bid that is well under where Posh value him, followed up by a second offer that isnt much improved and then looking at other targets when that offer gets knocked back before trying again last knockins.
In fairness HB1, you do bring it on yourself more often than not, your recent responses in this thread being a prime example. What does post count have to do with the validity of someone's opinion? People dont have an issue with being negative, I think its fair to say that the majority would agree, myself included, in regards to Gino/Bayat/the debt and the way the club has been run. As for being enablers, its only being this season that you have changed your tune so I'm not sure why you keep taking pot shots at the fan base. I find it strange that a few of the most vocally negative on here are also unwilling to do anything about it other than running down the rest of the fan base for being passive on this forum at every available opportunity - there just as culpable in the enabling stakes.
I know how this forum works. People create dormant accounts and they sign on the them every now and then to create a multitude of responses to try and set a tone. On this occasion it was extremely obvious. Two posters I’ve never seen before pop up and have a dig within minutes of each other. As for pot shots at the fanbase. Well if that’s what it takes to rile you up and put some fire in your belly, then I say I’m doing a good job.
Yeah, that's all fair comment and I agree with most of it, the debt is a big concern and we won't be able to cover it with player sales forever unless the recruitment picks up, we cut costs massively or we get promoted again in the next few years. I don't have an objection to criticism of Gino, the management of the club has been a bin fire since the beginning of the first relegation season. The period up until that point showed he can make it work and I hope we work our way back there, but it's harder now most other clubs have taken on and improved our methods, and we've had a few too many resets in recent years that haven't done anything. In the meantime I'm happy to support the team and hope that the club can sort itself out. For once we've stuck with a manager, and we're back to small fees, loans and punts, which at least for the moment shows the club is aware it needs to get back to doing what we were actually good at before we got promoted, rather than ******* away millions on drek. I don't think we're inevitably heading for sunlit uplands, and I don't think we've actually conducted that strategy that well yet, but for every Iriney (or three) there's a Jake Livermore. I objected to people having a go at fans who don't share their extremely negative view. Complaining about the owner is fine and have at it, but apparently for some, if you don't share the view that the sky is falling in, then you're part of a cult or an organised plot and you need to be kicked into action. It's exactly the sort of attempt to "set a tone" HB accused me and someone else of (and fairly classic online behaviour that I could have just not risen to, but we are where we are). If the club was genuinely struggling to survive then I'd understand it, but for the moment we're just a bit disappointing and frustrating. If people want to be infuriated then that's fine, but having a go at fans because they actually want to enjoy watching the club they love rather than declaring war on the owner is a bit sad. I know it's not very 21st century to be able to disagree with anyone without questioning their existence as human beings, but you've managed to do it with some grace - it's just a shame that others can't play nicely.
Yes, this is where I am too. I do have sympathy with the "little Watford" crowd - we are a tinpot club with the worst fanbase in world football - but that is not the reason we went down. If it was, it would be acceptable. I did not wail and gnash my teeth when GT and Aidy got relegated from the prem. It was just the order of things. But the first relegation from Gino was purely down to shocking decisions. That is what is so galling. 1. Not sacking Gracia in the summer after the cup final debacle (or even after the cup final itself!). Why did he stop the ruthlessness that had served us so well? 2. Not making the couple of minor signings required in the January of the first relegation season that would have kept us up effortlessly. Rather saving a few quid and hoping for the best, knowing we had ace players coming that summer (estupinan etc). 3. Starting to employ British managers and other failed foreign journeymen rather than shrewd unknowns. 4. Complete refusal to sign ace and handsome Italians. 5. The utter shytshow of managers and signings ever since. 6. Other stuff I've probably forgotten.
Not for me. I loved the fact we were swinging our big premier League di c k around with that signing. I can't blame a man for doing that. We didn't need to spend much more in January to stay up, but he chose not to. That was the error for me. Would could have afforded it easily. Edit d i c k is censored now? Come on now...
Ultimately throwing away points at Villa and at home to Everton got us relegated that season . The managerial merry go round was unhelpful , Arsenal capitulating at Villa then putting in a shift for 45 against us didn't help either but would have been irrelevant had we not chucked it away in those games that I mentioned. Covid, Delefeou injury ,Pearson's punch up, Leicester at Muff etc etc all would not have mattered either
Yep, very fine margins. Which is why one single shrewd signing that January would have kept us up. One single ace Italian on loan or something like that. But he didn't do it.
Surely the problem was that we spent a huge amount of money on a player with potential, rather than a proven player who would improve the team straight away? So essentially it was more of a gamble than it should have been.
You're right, but I don't think it was the killer blow for us. Being too arrogant? incompetent? to realise we needed another signing in addition was what did for us. We could have afforded it. We didn't need a superstar.
When you get relegated by 1 point it’s not one single thing that gets you relegated, it’s the collective of about 50 things that gets you relegated. I don’t have a deep understanding of Villa’s 38 games the first season we went down, but no doubt they had scenarios when they threw points away or lost points unfairly due to referring decisions etc, that still could’ve helped them finish above us even if a one of result we should’ve got had actually gone our way.
As Vic said below, there are a few on here who have said we'll be in a relegation battle for each of our last three Championship seasons. I don't mind that it's their view, the squad this year isn't great and unlike the previous two Championship seasons, it didn't look like one that could get promoted. But relegation has never been that likely, which is why it's odd that if you disagree, you're a COG and people need to have a pop at you to fire you up, rather than just debating the points.
I think they did try the solid, sensible signing approach to try and improve the defence in Dawson. It just didn't work for whatever reason, given he suddenly turned back into a Premier League centre back at West Ham and is still doing reasonably for Wolves. Suggests it was poor tactics and management, or the general malaise in the squad for lots of that year.
You are absolutely correct but there are things that you can control and others that are out of your hands. It is the stuff that we lost control of that cost us, IMO
No one has done that. People who blindly support our owner despite all evidence to the contrary get called things like that. Not people who disagree that we’ll be in a relegation fight. You’re conflating the two different scenarios. Not everyone is ‘Uncle Ron’, a Miami based cartoon character who gets a stupid amount of exposure on Twitter and on here (an entire thread that gets updated by the same poster regularly for no reason!) just like everyone is not ‘Amersham’/‘Wendover’ or whatever.
Yes but being a rubbish relegation threatened team is why we chucked leads away, because we were not good enough, either mentally, fitness wise, through poor tactics etc.
Yes, it's a fair point and I've over-conflated. When I initially posted I was quite clear that I didn't blindly support the owner, and was still accused of being a COG just for making a few points about why fans wouldn't be at war with the owner over being in mid-table, but it was about being in mid-table rather than being relegated. I also agree that it's not everyone, and not even most of those here who like to complain about Gino. Most of the criticism is fair, and much of the recent discussion on this thread has shown you can do it civilly. There are a couple who feel the need to resort to name-calling at any disagreement though (and people of all opinions do it here sometimes).
The thing that baffles me is that internet forums are completely pointless and anything discussed on here has no impact on anything, discussing who we might sign or should sign, or how we should set up for the next game, and who we should pick to start has as much impact on reality as discussing what the weather might do and then what actually happens. And yet we all do it, and it’s not questioned, but if you’re too critical of the owner or how the club has been run, then apparently you should be storming the directors box and arranging on field demonstrations if you’re really that unhappy. What is wrong with having a specific view on the owner on an internet forum without having to also back it up in real life? Why doesn’t anyone in the transfer suggestion forum who expresses a view on who we should sign have to also turn up at Gino’s house and tell him we should buy them?
Yes you're probably right. Not sacking Gracia was the biggest error. Should have got some stern Italian manager in who would have shifted the bad apples and moved us forward. Showing loyalty to that gurning simpleton is what killed us. Followed closely by that cheating cahunt van dik's assault on Deulofeu. If he'd stayed fit, we 100% would have stayed up. But we can't blame Pozzo for that.
This is pure devils advocate, but you could make an argument that after 5 years in the PL we should have a squad capable of removing one star player from and still be competitive enough. Fair enough if it was our first season up and we lost our best player then it would undoubtably be tough, but after five seasons of premier league money, if you still have a squad that weak, you could argue that is more the issue than the player in question being injured.
You're right, but it was just a matter of limping through that season, as in the summer we had some new ace players lined up to join us (estupinan etc) and we'd have been fine (in theory!) I just wish we'd let Mazzarri get rid of Deeney, instead of letting that hag with one tooth run him out of town. So many little avoidable things contributed to our downfall.
