He seems to be a scorer of important goals. If that equalizer gets us 7th then he'll look like being worth the transfer fee imo.
Southampton did their homework, were effective at parking the bus and dangerous on the counter-attack. It's a measure of how far we've come that many teams fear us to the extent they play this way. OK we weren't that effective in playing against it but Hasenhuttl has them well organised and has (probably) saved them from relegation after the car crash of a Mark Hughes appointment. We may be playing for Europe but that doesn't give us any entitlement to beat anyone. As for Gray, he may have the ball control of someone having a seizure, but as long as he scores at the rate he's been doing that's fine by me. But surely, the biggest talking point of the night was: 'John Barnes as half-time entertainer. Not quite as cringeworthy as Ratsu but not far off.' Discuss
And others like Henderson who people probably think of fondly because the bulk of his time was in the championship doing well, but in his one season in the PL he was woefully bad and out of his depth.
I'm not buying the Gray is woeful for 90% of the game but at least he scores goals argument. If we had a decent alternative we should be smashing teams during the 90% Gray fails to even control the ball.
Before his career went down the toilet from a night club, Marlon King looked the real deal with an exceptional season, but like Henderson above, struggled to rise to the challenge. Biggest problem with promoted teams is whether to stick or twist on purse strings. We did well because Iggy and Deeney had their groove still. Despite tailing off, we still had an excellent first season under QSF which acted as a platform for us.
Anyone long balls we played were meat and drink for the Southampton defence - that is where we missed Deeney and even he has struggled in some games to get the better of defenders in the airs. Notice Success came on and managed to "slip over" a few times again!
Weird reply. Success has scored two goals in his last 56 league appearances over the last three seasons. Gray is clearly more of a goal threat.
We were awful. Not enough urgency or tempo. Too many flicks and attempted intricate triangles when there was no space to do so. Which players honestly looked like they cared tonight? Only a couple. Southampton’s tactics were reminiscent of when Burnley came to the Vic. Their antagonistic behaviour and absurd amounts of time wasting were incredibly frustrating to watch and I was so pleased they couldn’t get over the line.
I've seen a couple of mentions of Southampton time wasting on here but watching online it really didn't seem as apparent as it sometimes does in games.
They did what any team would do. Took longer over goal kicks. Milked free kicks etc. We would've done exactly the same and enjoyed it if it worked.
That’s rather harsh considering King was injured for the vast majority of his one Premier League season with us.
Got away with that last night. Gray is what he is, useful at times but limited. As are our other strikers.
Maybe last night was what was needed going into Saturday: a wake up call without it being a damaging loss. Success, as much as he frustrates, has at least made something of an impact in these last two games, and should start with Deulofeu against Wolves. Get the band back together from the win at Molyneux!
Some random thoughts from last night :- Why was the pitch like a swimming pool ? Why weren't we wearing the same flippers as Southampton ? Amazing that 2 of our best players this season, Foster & Cathcart, have caused us to concede such stupid goals. I haven't seen Doucoure play worse. We missed Troy The cross that Hughes put in for Gray (5 minutes after they scored) was sublime. I thought we looked dangerous in the 2nd half whenever Deulofeu got the ball. Pereyra was disappointing again (but was involved in the build up to the equaliser) Their timewasting from the start (well, after they scored!), was awful to watch. Very professional, and I understand why, but awful to watch We didn't deserve anything out of the match (although after we scored I thought we might end up winning the game !) The point earned from the draw may prove vital - 7th place and Europe is still in our hands
Early season when Success was playing it was noticable that his first touch sticks. He can hold the ball up and bring people into the play and bring the play further up the pitch. In Deeney's absence he should be on the pitch earlier or start. I understand what others say about him but the fact is that the team works better with him playing so Gray back to the bench (to come on and score the winner and further improve his goals to time played ratio) and Success to start Saturday.
I agree with all of this apart from the comment about not deserving anything. I thought we were worth a point,if only because Saints were so deep for most if not all of the second half. I think Kaba slipped three times in the first half and Cathcart twice.Others did too. It seemed to me that RP was almost trying too hard and on a couple of occasions in the second half he tried to take on the entire population of Southampton! I am consoling myself with two thoughts this morning: First that I would have taken a point pre match,on the understanding that Saints needs was pressing and that they would want to improve on the Newcastle game. The other is that Foster and Cathcart have been brilliant this season and everyone is,in Ben's case,entitled to an error and in Craig's,a bad game. As an aside how nice to see Loon have their little party delayed by AFC Wimbledon in the latter moments last night! Probably at the same time as we scored!
In the end a good point against an extremely hard working and well organised Southampton. Gray spent the entire first half running around like a headless chicken and the second half standing around like a headless chicken, but redeemed himself after his early miss with the late equaliser. Not at our best, but players deserve tremendous credit for their outstanding effort. I had us down for 4 points from last night and Wolves. Just got to win on Saturday now
On nearly all the fouls and throws Southampton conceded the closest player to the ball knocked it away. Not too far but but nearly every time and Mike Dean did nothing to stop it. I know it’s now part of the game but I’ve never seen it done so frequently.
Indeed he is. Of his 8 goals this season only one has come in a defeat. 2 were draws. 3 were one goal wins. He also scored the vital first in our victory at Burnley. Vital goals and only 1 against the current bottom 3 unlike Del boy's 7 out of 9 league goals (scored against Cardiff and huddersfield). The really great thing about Dre is that he can score anytime against any team. Most of Troy's Premier League goals have come from the penalty spot, against weaker teams or Bournemouth's makeshift defence this season. Dre is by far our most consistent goal threat.
But chipping in with goals ? He's the only player we have who makes the runs, get into the position to score, and then fluffs 75% of the chances. Yes it would be great if we had a more clinical finisher or a finisher with better touch in the build up play (less of an issue away from home when there's space) but we will not pay the market price for such a striker.
It's not really about goals, it's about how the player enables the team to function v what the opposition are doing. Goals are a result of getting that right.
Personally thought Southampton were very good last night. Loads of pace in their team, ran themselves into the ground to close us down, often high up the pitch. It’s also the reason they concede late as you just cannot keep that work rate up for 90mins. Luckily we were still in the game to take advantage as they really should have been 2-3 to the good. Whilst we did eventually get the breakthrough it was a shame to see us go a bit too route one in the second half. Made things way too easy for the most part for Saints. Should have stuck to our passing as it would have pushed them to work even harder. That said, we clearly were not playing well so sometimes a bit of basics is not the worst thing. One thing that is noticeable when we try to thread a needle attack is that the better teams, such as Man City, suck the defence towards them but leave one or two players outside of the focal area of the attack. How many times has Sterling popped up with a tap in because opposition get drawn to the ball. If we could learn to know there is the option to pass out of the crowd that builds up I’m sure it’d help our goal scoring. Not sure I’ve explained that very well but hope you get the gist.
Gray can't play up top on his own, or with Del flitting about everywhere but rarely near him. Troy brings out the best in him, but if Troy isn't available, Success, for all his limitations, is the next best thing. I thought Javi had picked our strongest possible team last night, but having seen that dreadful performance I would start with Success and drop Pereyra on Saturday.
Totally agree with the highlighted part. It's not so much the chances he misses which is the main problem for me, as he does score goals on a fairly regular basis, but it's the lack of quality he shows in the build up play. Too many attacks fall down when it comes to him. He has such a heavy touch where the ball just bounces away from him, or he overhits the pass far. Occasionally he'll get it right, but he gets wrong more often than not and it's very noticeable. You cannot rely on using him during the build up and I think players like Pereyra and Deulofeu sense this and try to avoid passing to him, because they think he'll f*** it up. It's a problem for sure, and it think this is why we look so disjointed without Deeney in the side right now. When we lose the ball in an attack, it's giving it back to the opposition, so they can launch their own attack or retain possession. It's counter-productive for the team. We need a better player than Gray next season. He's been with Watford for a long time now, and nothing has really improved with him. He is still making the same basic errors. What you say, implying we cannot afford to sign a better player than Gray, is not correct, IMO. Sure, good strikers are a sort after commodity, but clubs of our standing have better players in this position than us. Burnley have Woods and Barnes, Bournemouth have Wilson and King, Palace have Zaha and Batshuyai, Southampton have Long, Austin and Ings. Newcastle have Rondon and Perez. Even relegated Fulham have Mitrovic and Babel. I would say only Huddersfield, Brighton and Cardiff have less quality to choose from in the way of out and out strikers. I would take any of those players I've listed over Gray. You see, there are decent strikers out there, and they are quite affordable. We are now a top half Premier League side. We need a couple more players who can fit the bill of a top half Premier League team. Our choice is Deeney (yes, this season's version for sure), Gray (squad player at best or Championship), Success (Championship), Okaka (Championship). Penaranda (no one really knows), Sinclair (League One) Ok we do have Hernandez and Pedro coming in next season, but to be able to play them in our team we need co-operation from the Home Office. Who knows how that will pan out. Now, it's not escaped my notice that we've scored 50 goals this season, which is remarkable considering the level of striker we have. So it's a bit of a dilemma. What we do does work, but it can be even better. Just imagine dropping in Wilson, King, Ings or Perez into our side. I think we'd be a side well clear in 7th place by now.
Southampton reminded me of the last time we played stoke at home with pace! Same colours, same time wasting tactics, thankfully not same result (as we lost against Stoke)
Good post - but you missed out another good forward Burnley have, even though he doesn't get much game time because he doesn't really fit into their style. Some Czech bloke.
Burnley have Woods and Barnes - great for their style of play not for us to play alongside Deeney, unless as a poor replacement for Deeney. Bournemouth have Wilson and King, - Muff have thrown money at many attacking players over the years. Those 2 are probably batter than Gray but they have wasted money on other buys and loans, Ibe, Defoe etc. They outspend us consistently. Palace have Zaha and Batshuyai, - Bat was out of our spending range. Zaha was developed in house. Southampton have Long, Austin and Ings - respectively, worse than Gray, injury prone and not a regular, and big injury risk loan that many on here turned their nose up at in the summer Newcastle have Rondon and Perez - Perez has had years of under-performing and is only now proving his worth. Rondon would be a Deeney replacement rather than a Gray replacement. Even relegated Fulham have Mitrovic and Babel. - You saw what Fulham spent on transfers and wages this season. How many have these 2 scored ? You saw the accounts. We won't be spending £25m plus on a proven striker. We will hopefully get Okaka off the wage bill and invest in a couple of other cheap promising younger options who may come good in the future as Wilson, King and maybe perez have. I expect we will start next season with the same 3 as our main strikers.
