Not sure how you can call our summer spending "penny pinching?" We spent 40 odd million? More? And we didn't sell any of our prized assets (who we don't prize anymore, admittedly) which in itself wad almost unique for a club of our stature in the Prem. I concur with your conclusion though. He has to be ****ed off before we sign any players under his influence in Jan
I would say we should temper this talk of Gray costing £18m. I swear it was nearer £11m - £12m with the rest being add-ons. Which probably consist of: 10+ goals England Cap(s) European Qualification So in summation, Gray is only likely to ever cost us the initial fee. And if we end up paying the whole 18m, with those add-ons, he’ll have ended until being worth every penny. Sadly I think he may well have been a name that was some way down a list of strikers in the summer and in hindsight, we should have waited. But we all were baying for the club to sign a striker so the rest is history. I don’t think Gray is a dud yet. But he’s well on the way and needs to knuckle down because he’s fallen behind a striker who is always suspended, when he’s not questioning other teams fragilities (the irony!!!), and a striker who the manager doesn’t even like and is clearly unfit and pretty average himself. This club urgently needs a New No.9. And a new leader. And a few defenders who will actually defend.
Gray only stands a chance of becoming decent at this level IF he's played alongside a centre forward like Okaka or Troy. He can't hold the ball up and play others in like a lone forward needs to do, or provide the physical presence in the box that's been lacking. He's a striker who gets on the end of what others create, and Silva is guilty of totally misusing him.
Its penny pinching because we've ended up with 3 ineffectual strikers, 2 incompetent left backs, a bunch of sick note centre backs, a near to retirement goalkeeper and a back up not even trusted to play The only part of the squad put together well was the midfield
I agree with this. The £18.5m is probably largely made up of add-ons. I seem to remember reading somewhere that it was £12.5m initially, but even that is over the odds. The big problem with Gray is that he comes with a lot of baggage. The Luton connection, the homophobic tweet, the cupping of his ears after scoring at Newcastle to Watford fans, the posing with his Little Mix girlfriend straight after that Huddersfield debacle. It all adds up and creates a profile of someone not overly pleasant. Personally I do not have a problem with any of that if he's performing on the pitch, but he's not. Not even close. I think some fans will use his past against him and that's inevitable. I don't believe he has a personality that suffers with a loss of confidence, so I do not put down his finishing down to that. I just don't think he's good enough at EPL level. Even with Burnley last season, he only scored 9, which included a hat trick against already relegated Sunderland. He also was their penalty taker. So the proof was already there, he's nothing more than a supporting forward player. He'll be best used on the right side, but we have Carrillo and Kiko who are much better on that side of the pitch. For the money we've spent and salary he's earning, it would be much better used on a new player. I think Gray has some abilities and I can see why the club made the mistake in signing him. He is fast, in your face personality, determined. That gets quite a few ticks in the box, but he just doesn't have the qualities Watford need. Two goals is a pathetic return and we do need to find other solutions up front.
I said Silva should have gone as soon as he refused to commit himself amid the Everton approach, even though I'd been loving this season up until that point. Whatever we had back then has disintegrated and we're now in freefall. Despite the injuries, I still expect much better from the players who have been available, but it's clear there's huge disillusionment in the squad, and I don't think a man who failed to commit to the cause can arrest this decline. Squads need a sense of togetherness, and he's put himself on a different page. I think keeping Silva until the summer will mean that next season we'll be looking at getting promoted from the Championship again.
I don't think it's not the wisest move to make after an embarrassing defeat to post photos that you're having a great time. It gives the impression you don't give a ****. It may be well wide of the mark, but that's how it looks. It was something that Dyche apparently did not like either when he was at Burnley.
And that in italics? I was reading match reports on BSaD of our 1997/98 title-winning season which was shortly before my time as a fan, and one of them (http://www.bsad.org/9798/reports/bristrh.html) mentions Tommy Mooney cupping his ears towards the Watford fans after scoring a vital winning goal. I still don't get what's so intrinsically bad about what Gray did.
Mooney was stood there drinking in the love and adoration. Gray was mocking us. Two utterly different scenarios. That's how it seemed to me and i was at both matches. Pissed, admittedly.
And Deeney can return better than ever. Look at his record. And Gomes can be a good goalkeeper for the next 5 years. Look at what he’s done for us. And Holebas can cut out the lapses in judgement and learn how to defend crosses. He once played in the Europe you know! The odds of those events re-occurring are small. You cannot live in the past with strikers. Especially one which, even if you forgive confidence on the ball, isn’t pressuring defenders, dropping deep, making space or getting stuck in without it. Many strikers instead go off the boil and never return to their peak, due to a lack of work rate, poor mentality or a lack of hunger. Some just go on a one or two season good run of form, before succumbing to a bad injury or losing their pace/ reflexes. We cannot afford passengers in such a crucial position if we are to stay in the league. I maintain that Gray’s run, before his absolutely terrible shot yesterday, was the best thing he has done at this club. A run. That’s what he’s given us in half a season. It’s abysmal. You can pray to your Gods that a miracle will transform him into a useful member of the squad. You can look at the past with awe. But most of us in the real world can see he squanders every single chance he’s been given, right here in the present.
Personally would like to see Gray & Vydra up front. I have belief that Gray can make it here. Vydra has matured nicely at Derby & scoring most weeks recently. I think he is capable of the step up. I think two fast forwards suits us & sets us up better with the type of flair players we have. I don't think we need root & branch changes like some are making out. A few astute signings in Jan will make all the difference & we will stay up comfortably.
You can't put strikers like Gray and Vydra together. They both play off a centre forward, which neither of them are.
Looks more like he's saluting to me? Either way, like you say, he obviously wouldnt have been mocking anyone. Decent goal celebration that btw.
The thing is he was doing most of the things you mention in the middle of your post up until the rest of the team's form went to pot too. On their own they're not enough to justify selection if you're a striker but it's harsh to overlook them now. There are definitely wider considerations in play here: If we're only going to create one reasonable chance per match for our striker he's probably not the man for the job. If we're going to expect our striker to plough a lone furrow up front while double marked and firing the ball at him at head height all the time he's probably not the man for the job. If we're going to expect him to score 20 goals to repay a transfer fee he had no part in negotiating he's probably not the man for the job. None of those factors are his fault. It's a team game and, so far, whoever we're picking up front is basically being left for large chunks of the game to battle the opposition defence on their own. Look at Okaka yesterday. The big fat lump lost interest after about 15 minutes and downed tools completely by half time. There were massive gaps in the Swansea backline all day and yet Silva waits til the closing stages to give Gray a run out. They probably couldn't believe their luck. I'd have much rather seen him and Pereyra on at half time as I genuinely think for Gray's one miss there'd have been another 2 or 3 clear cut chances coming his way. I know you and some others will see those as 2 or 3 more spectacular misses that never happened but his record - including last season - suggests otherwise.
I agree with this. Most strikers/teams need more than one chance in a game-he was on for 15 minutes and got one chance. I said at half time we need more than one -heck- at least a 2 goal lead to think we can comfortably play out for at least a win if not a draw. Indeed of our seven wins three have been 2-0 and one 3-0. The other three have been a nervy (but deserved) 2-1 v Lester and two last minute wins v Swans and Arsenal. Surely Silva could see that we were not creating much (bar the disallowed header ) from minute 15 to 60-that's half a game. Overall we need to be creating more than one decent chance a game and whilst that is a stretch v a top 6 side surely not against the bottom club. Silva saying we should have killed it off neatly deflects criticism away from our inability to keep a clean sheet ( thats twice in the last 17) or if the tactic is to outscore the opponent then you need to fashion more than two clear cut chances a game
Well this is it. At the start of the season we were basically saying to opponents - 'you score 2, we'll score 3'. Now we're saying - 'we might shoot once, you can still score 2'. The vast majority of our attacking play yesterday was atrocious. Ponderous, aimless and completely lacking any real threat. We're barely even getting in the opposition box any more. When we do there's often no one else in a remotely decent position so whoever breaks through has to go it alone. The contrast between now and September is as stark anything. There are probably 12 teams in the league who would have easily put 3 past Swansea in that situation. A Liverpool or Man City would have got 5+. Our overall performance barely deserved 1.
Another game we almost messed up there! Think Tommy Mooney was already becoming a crowd favourite there - certainly don't think he would been reacting to negative supporters.
Just looking at the stats with us compared to his 18 games at Hull Win ratio-33% same Yellow cards-37 -same Red cards 4 with us -3 at Hull Goals conceded=37-same goals scored- 30 with us but only 20 with Hull Looking forward-Relegation-hopefully not
Anyone comparing that ******* hateful shitbag to the great Tommy Mooney should just renounce their Hornet support immediately and **** off to Gray's true love up the m1
It was absolutely nowhere near Okaka’s best performance for us, in fact I’d describe it as poor, but he showed more in 75 minutes than Gray has showed all season.
Silva seems so shallow and superficial. Check his bl**dy press conferences: always showing off his big watch (someone on another thread says he's on some Swiss watch deal). Beginning to think he is all style and no substance. What is worrying is that other teams are sacking managers and getting a bounce. Expect Southampton to sack their manager just before they play us in 2 weeks' time!!
The problem isn't Gray. The problem is whether or not Silva keeps playing him. I don't blame Gray for being poop (and I am afraid, for whatever reason, he has been very, very poopy) or being played out of place.
I must say that he deserved to start over Gray. But if Stefano Okaka is the answer, I dread to think what the question was....
I find his actions during the Everton imbroglio disappointing, but I wonder if he feels the club did not deliver what they promised when he agreed to join. His comments at the end of the window certainly suggest that. The minimum he would have expected I believe was: A genuine challenger for Gomes Better full backs Dominant, organizing CB...if not 2 Better wide players 1 if not 2 strikers Improved midfield Of that, he got a better RB, an improved midfield, 2 wide players but at the expense of losing Amrabat, so effectively only 1, and a single striker who has not worked out.....could he feel himself justified in doubting the club's commitment to its promises? At best, he got 50% of what was necessary. I've voted he should go as I'm concerned there is little trust between him & the club hierarchy
http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/watfords-marco-silva-under-pressure-11777696 Executive chairman Scott Duxbury stormed out at the end of Saturday's 2-1 home defeat by Swansea, fed up after a second collapse in the last five minutes against the Premier League’s bottom club in three weeks. Silva, whose contract has 18 months still to run after joining in the summer from relegated Hull, is not in imminent danger of the sack. But after Duxbury and owner Gino Pozzo fought tooth and nail to keep him out of Everton’s clutches in the autumn, rejecting two approaches from the Merseysiders for their 40-year-old head coach, the Hornets expected better than 10 points from a possible 39. Interesting, if true?
