Watford FC 1-0 Sunderland - 01/04/2017

It's my opinion based on the level of our performances and the teams we have left to play. Weren't Leicester 5000-1 to win the league last season?

William Hill has us as 11-1 to go down. West Ham are 40-1 and I think that's worth a sneaky fiver for sure.

Bookies only reflect the general public's perception. People place bets and this is how the odds are calculated.

Even on here, most have stated that the season's been over months ago, and we'll never be relegated......yet here we are just 7 points from safety with 9 games to go.

 

I was there actually. Our performance was better only by the virtue of the lowering of the opposition's ability. To see whether I'm right or whether we actually have improved can be very easily illustrated on Tuesday, when we play a team in mid-table safety with nothing left to play for. If we perform well and grind out a result against them, then I will start to believe we may be improving.

Makes me think that you weren't there if you think we dominated throughout. We did nothing of the sort. We were in the ascendency until we scored, but then as always, we sat back and invited pressure. Sunderland certainly ended the game the stronger side.

We may have had 10 shots on target, but how many of those were pot-shots, that took the stats up? I would say Doucoure and Success forced very good saves, but the others were routine for a competent keeper. The same applies to Gomes. He made two very good saves and the game was a lot more even then you are making out.

We deserved to win, but only just. It was as close as the score-line suggested.

It's not a fact at all it's just your opinion that we have improved. My opinion, share by many others, is that we have not improved at all, not even incrementally, in performance. The only thing that has improved is the playing squad, so you could say performances have even gone backwards.

To say we are not in a relegation fight is just being blinkered. 7 points from safety, at this stage, tells a different story.

To finish with a similar points total, means we'll have to pick up another 11 points. Have you seen our fixture list? Of course, it's not impossible to do, but highly improbable given the standard of performance we are producing every week.

 

A position we have rarely if ever been lower than.

 

We did dominate the game and its one of those situations where if Sunderland had scored in the 90th minute wed have kicked ourselves for not putting the game to bed. If you want to criticise, then talk about not turning dominance into a comfortable win - not how it was a closely matched contest.

I also don't quite get how we "should" be a comfortable top 10 side, hb1 claims we spent enough money but I googled to see a league table of squad values. We're above Burnley, hull, Boro, muff and level with swansea, palace. West brom are over achieving, otherwise the league table summarily reflects the squad value table.

We "could" do what west brom are doing, could have a good run next season and find ourselves comfortably top 8, one of our forwards could locate ighalos magic boots that he lost and we could find ourselves injury free and find the consistency missing from this season. I dont think we have a team or system where as fans, we can demand that.

 

So what you're saying is the more money a team spends the better they perform in the league?

 

From the Sunderland Echo

An excellent concise summary I reckon.

 

Yes and it's a complaint we've regularly had when we've lost.

 

Its fairly straightforward.

 

I thought it was a really enjoyable game of football, and the ref really helped the flow of it by just ignoring most of the fouls and letting players play on, made for a far more fluent performance. I was surprised that Sunderland were so un-streetwise in their play, very few of the niggly fouls that plenty of other teams employ to break up play, and at times they let acres of space for players to advance in to, which made it far easier to play passing football rather than hoofing it. I can't imagine that West Brom will be quite as kind on Tuesday night, but I hope we're brave enough to try and maintain this style of play as it felt like real progress for once.

 

I thought gomes made 3 or 4 good, of not outstanding saves.

Sunderland looked low on confidence but we didn't make them look abject. We did have the more of the attacking, but it wasn't a whitewash.

What was standout for me, was that our players just don't have any quality of final ball. It was telling that our one goal came from a dead Ball situation, rather than the countless forays down the wings.

Time and again we had players in a position to hurt Sunderland but we crossed, passed or shot poorly.

Lack of confidence or lack of quality?

Doucoure was superb. He, like others, was frozen out this season until injuries forced Wally's hand, once again calling into question the judgment of the man who watches these players in training all week.

On the flip side, in WM'so defence, I think the starting line up and formation was a brave choice and was as good a set up we could have gone with with the players available. Debates about success or Janmaat starting are valid, but the former didn't justify a starting place with his performance when he came on. He was abject, but possibly as a result of match minutes. Janmaat on the right with Cathcart in the middle, however, looks a better combo.

Cathcart is another who has only had a chance because if injuries, but is arguably our most solid defender.

 

Our crossing was superb in the first half, as i said last night had Deeney been on the pitch i think he would have buried one or two of them but had Deeney been on wed have reverted to type and ​ended up hoofing to him and achieving nothing.

 

I think our crossing was poor in that they constantly went to the far post when all of the attacking players had gone near post. So many went long and had to be retrieved by the touch line. Our crossing has been pretty **** all season and yesterday was no exception

 

Comments on here about west ham or Burnley ending up in the bottom 3. They are 1 or 2 points below us. Massive win yesterday but 7 points is nothing when palace and Leicester have won 4 in a row and hull have won 2 of 3 and have middlesbro coming up. Defeats against wba and spurs and we will be right back in it.

 

What, even if the gap remains 7pts? We've never been 'in it'.

 

A lot of negative comments on here, we have 8 teams below us with 2 teams higher on the same points , with 9 games to play, it looks as if only the last relegation spot is up for grabs. If we lose all 9 we will go down as I don't believe any team that loses 9 in a row at the end of the season has stayed up.

However our current points per game obtained over the season is 1.172, if you want to discard the last 4 games that means we will get another 6 points giving us 39 points. Obviously key games are home to Swansea and away to Hull as taking points from those two would stop them closing the gap, winning the games and we increase the gap.

I believe we will be fine before the last 4 games and we will pick up something from those which will be icing on the cake!

 

I think we could get another 27 points this season.

 

The problem is more that we never had anybody except Okaka in the box. You could say we shouldn't cross the ball but we have to get more players in scoring positions

 

with Hull and Swansea current form and remaining fixtures then i can see them both reaching 37-38 points - so we need about 5 more in my view as it stands (by default if we beat them both then they probably fizzle out on 34/35 - but if we do need 5 then the WBA / Swansea / Hull games need to yield most of them

So whilst the league table looks reassuring today - lose to both of them and we may not get out of it - so hard to argue we are not "in it" - personally i think we won't lose them both and will be fine - but 2 bad performances in those games and we could still struggle

The best way to make the "6 pointer / brown trouser" games irrelevant would be to see off WBA and then we are as good as safe

 

I think this far into the season we now have to start being realistic and accept that there's a real lack of quality within the current match day squad. Mazzarri doesn't help the situation with his stubbon tactics and slotting players into unfimiliar positions, but I do wonder whether anyone could've done any better with what we've got, especially considering we've been plagued by injuries too our most creative and attacking players. If we take a step back and really look at some of the dross we have playing for us, it does become quite obvious that we're just not as good as we think we are, unfortunately a bulk of our fans will never accept that (some more than others).

An overhaul is needed over over the Summer, from the top of the club to the bottom and I think we'll certainly see that happen, from how we conduct ourselves in the transfer market to off loading passengers and deadwood from the current squad.

 

Issue was that Okaka was never in the box...

 

We were helped yesterday because Sunderland obviously needing wins came here to play so it was an open game.

The problem with West Brom and Pulis is they're going to come here and spoil and stifle and we've not been very good at breaking those teams down. So I can see alot of frustration boiling over and us losing 1-0 - I hope we don't but I can see it being one hell of an ugly game, especially if Walter decides a point will do.

 

Agreed - it has a park the bus / ugly game / steal it on the break feel about it - remember that each place in the league is worth a million + - so they ain't gonna roll over and die for us

 

I think we all recognise that our defenders are generally poor in their distribution and this needs addressing.

Whilst I like Behrami for his endeavour, his passing is not great and this season he seems to have dwelt too long on the ball and been caught out on numerous occasions. This is probably academic anyway as he seems likely to leave and in a slower,less physical league he will prolong his career.

A settled system and team would help greatly and Nutty Walt has been denied this due to constant injuries.Winning breeds confidence and we hadn't won in four,as we all know.

Everyone recognised the importance of the game yesterday and I'm sure some of the anxiety emitted by some of us is unhelpful.Whilst the passing across the back is sometimes testing for the blood pressure ( Britos attempting a Cruyff turn was ill advised!) it always makes me think of how WE react to it compared to other nations.

If it isn't passed around at the back in Italy and launched long the team is booed. I remember Galli looking very confused years ago!

Of course our reflections would be different if Sunderland had equalised but they didn't and I never thought it looked likely.

 

Niang v Nyom could be interesting but you know Pulis will double up on Niang.

One of those games where you wish the PL would say don't subject the fans to 90 minutes, just agree a 0-0 beforehand and don't play the game.

 

Anything less and we culd be sucked right back into it

 

I just don't get how so many in here think we have a quality squad. Two seasons and two managers with almost identical results should be enough proof that our squad is not good enough for a top half finish. Neither manager has ever played hoof ball at their former clubs yet we think it is their chosen tactic. The players do not have the technical ability to pass the ball accurately against the better teams, or even some of the worst teams.

Our only hope for an improvement would be to get an amazing manager who would instil more confidence to pass accurately out of defence or 3 or 4 amazing players with technical ability. Both would be the ideal scenario.

 

I do fear that yesterday we had the best out of most of our attackers. Success looked off kilter, but the others really were as good as I think they're gonna get, which is good enough to carve open, but not hurt a terrible Sunderland side.

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That's why we would be a good option he would be guarenteed first team starts.

 

I personally thought that we didn't look any better defensively after the change, but looked slightly less of a threat from set pieces.

Walt seems to think the extra height and physicality is worth it, and I'd tend to agree against long ball teams.

 

He was in the box for most crosses but he was it. We can't play Okaka or Deeney on their own up front if we don't get the midfield and wide players busting a gut to support them. It's where Abdi was really good

 

Should you ever open a bookies kindly let me know. English may not be your first language but I didn't realise you also originally gained your understanding of probability from the planet zog.

 

We've not been in it the whole of the time we've been in this league. If we lose the next two but so do the Swansea and Hull we will be even safer than we are now as there will be less games to play. I'm sorry but I simply don't get this we're in the brown stuff talk. Maybe expectations of where we should finish are a little high. I would have been more than happy if you had said in August we would 7 points clear of relegation with 9 games to go.

 

Agree with this. I thought Okaka held the ball up well, but then had few options.