Tina Turner 1939-2023

Huge star when I was growing up. Great entertainer. Watched a great documentary on her life. She had some tough times, but seemed more settled in her life in her later years. RIP

 

Martha Nell Bullock. An average bar singer who got lucky on the back of someone else's fame and talent, only to later stab him in the back and destroy his name for ever.

If she had a hard life, then Ike, who saw his father beaten to death by white men, who was the victim of beatings and sexual assault all through his childhood and who left school after year 8, had it 100 times tougher.

But he went on to learn boogie woogie piano by ear, from Pinetop Perkins no less, blues guitar and to record what is arguably the world's first rock n roll record - Rocket 88 - in 1951. He won 5 grammys. He discovered, recorded and played backing with just about every blues or r'n'b star of the time you can think of. Howlin' Wolf. Bobby Bland. BB King. Everyone you can imagine.

He was as clean as a whistle. Didn't smoke, didn't drink, didn't do drugs. He was so strict as a band leader he fined any of the group who didn't follow his lead on that. Right up to the age of 30. The sun shone, the fruit ripened on the trees, the royalties rolled in and the recordings continued with huge success. Sam Phillips used money from Ike Turner royalties to start Sun records.

But then it all came crashing down. Through a combination of a trinity of ghastly evils; fast and loose bar women, the Disney Corporation and Elvis bloody Presley.

Bullock was the sister of the barmaid at one of the clubs Turner's band played at. A floozy stumbling around the bar stools with a bottle in her hand and her lipstick all smeared. Probably. Her sister was dating one of Turner's band.

She "talked" her way with some of that smooth talking into getting to sing with the band. Ike tried to brush her off, but she was persistent. Wouldn't take no for an answer. Forced her way up and grabbed the microphone off her sister's poor boyfriend.

Well after worming her way in to the band, Ike thought up the name 'Tina Turner' for the lead female singer of his group. He had the name legally copyrighted, so if one left, then the next one who came to replace her would take on the name. It was his property that name.

As well as a talented musician, Ike was also a brilliant songwriter and on the back of his tunes and recording industry contacts and tours etc. she got a share of Ike's fame. Eventually of course, she also worked her way into his bed.

Unfortunately for Ike, while he was playing Las Vegas, that uttershitt Presley convinced him to try coke. He thought it would help him stay awake and work harder writing music.

We well know what destruction that terrible drug brings. And so it brought down Ike. There's no denying he slapped her about. He didn't deny it. That's what addiction does, especially in those old days times and having grown up witnessing it all around. That's not to excuse it, but to put it in context. We can suppose she wasn't entirely docile and innocent either. Ike said of the big bust up when they split just before he was going to sign some new contract she didn't like of "deliberately provoking" him to cause the split. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

While she left with furs and houses and 5k per month payments, plus unbelievably the rights to the name 'tina turner', poor Ike continued to spiral downwards with his addiction and consequent trouble in life.

At the height of it, when he was in jail for drug offences and at the lowest most desperate point, she wrote her backstabbing book about how terrible it had all been. Lawyers for the Disney corporation turned up at the prison and got him to sign away all his rights for $45k and then made that film where they destroyed his character.

After the film they continued to regularly publicly humiliate him, with more than a dash of racism, for years on shows like Saturday Night Live or other comedy. Making him out to be a thick, violent thug. Sections like "ask/aks Ike". Made him a hated figure of fun. Absolutely destroyed him.

One of Ike's later wives said "the film What's Love Got to Do with It assassinated Ike's career. But more than that, it broke his heart". She added, "Ike doesn't get any recognition because of all the negative things [shown] in that movie and in his relationship with Tina... I went through things with Ike, too, but there's a time to forgive and to let go. To strip him from having the opportunity to get recognition in an area where he was entitled to deserve it, it's so wrong to me"

Bullock herself never really showed much contrition about using and then destroying Ike. We know the later success she got churning out bland mediocre pop ballads under the name Ike thought up for her.

She claimed not to have even watched the film but did say: "I watched a little bit of it, but I didn't finish it because that was not how things went. I didn't realize they would change the details so much."

Well they did. They destroyed the man who made you famous and you did nothing whatsoever to put the record straight.

 

Wtf have I just read? Poor Ike?

We all go through ****, life is **** and miserable and difficult. I don’t care how talented you are nor how hard your life was there’s never, ever a justifiable way to say “sure he slapped her about”

You can discuss her part in their violent relationship and you can discuss who is more talented without justifying his behaviour.

 

Well said.

 

I’m not sure he did justify it. However I thought it a bit unkind to belittle Tina Turner’s talent. The piece about Ike’s early life and career was interesting, though.

 

It may well be that Ike got a tough deal but this is about Tina Turner, not Ike. Not sure why you insist on using her birth name, do you do that with all film and pop starts you refer to ?
She may have pushed herself forward to get a start in the business but who doesn't, who doesn't need to ?
I found most of her songs a bit "meh" but without doubt she had an amazing voice and stage presence.

 

I found Clive's well informed defence of domestic violence interesting and refreshing.

 

I found it too long to read, thankfully.

 

Not a great take. Sure, Ike is one of the most underrated musicians in the history of Rock n Roll and perhaps there is a time to re-evaluate his importance in the context of his prolific output, tireless touring and influence, but this is not that time. Especially not at the expense of Tina Turner, who cannot, IMO be blamed for leaving an abusive marriage to strike out on her own and be hugely successful in doing so. Ike's lack of success through the 80s and beyond is not her responsibility. Especially if the biggest damage was done by a movie, which she laid no claim to the authenticity thereof.

She never had a no. 1 single in the UK, did you know?

 

Absolutely spot on. Ike was a pioneer of the rock and roll industry, but was 62 when the film came out. How much of a career was he expecting after that?

 

I used her birth name to illustrate that even the name 'tina turner' she used for her fame was taken by her from Ike.

 

It's not so much his career after the age of 62 - more to do with his legacy, which is completely destroyed.

A few other singers who did domestic abuse: John Lennon, Ozzie Osbourne, Eminem, Sid Vicious. There are many on the list.

But none of them get constantly iinked with it in the same way Ike Turner is because of that film.

Even now, with all the headlines about her death, every one mentions 'abusive husband'.

 

An impressive performer.
RIP Tina.

 

Well, Sid Vicious is hardly a great example. Not sure many people are celebrating his legacy too much, but I take your point.

Unfortunately we live in a very black or white world where someone is labelled very quickly as good or evil, bad or virtuous etc. based on very little knowledge about them, rather than as complex, flawed, often good people with bad history.

I for one, much prefer the Ike and Tina work to her solo bilge, but I don't personally blame her for not hanging around to be battered a bit more, just so we'd remember Ike as the man who fired Jimi Hendrix for being too flamboyant in his playing.

 

No me neither. By all means. What I objected to was tbe fictionalised and exaggerated film and her silence about it.

Didn't watch it my arse.

She admitted it was all a lie in the quote I gave, but she didn't have the decency to stand up and say that when the film came out. She was quite happy to play the role of poor victim who had risen from being left broken and ruined by her husband, then against the odds rising from the ashes to be a millionaire superstar.

Phil Spector got it spot on when he said "Ike made Tina the jewel she was. When I went to see Ike play at the Cinegrill in the 90s…there were at least five Tina Turners on the stage performing that night, any one of them could have been Tina Turner"

Spector then criticised Turner’s autobiography ’I, Tina’, he said : “I have an ambivalence towards Oprah Winfrey. She made Tina Turner’s book into a bestseller which demonized and vilified Ike. The book wouldn’t have sold 10 books. It was badly written. It was a piece of trash and because Oprah idolized Tina she didn’t feel it wrong to vilify a brother.”

Spector who produced the Ike and Tina track ’River Deep, Mountain High’ then slammed the film version of the book ’What’s Love Got To Do With It’, he called it a “piece of trash movie.”

 

Is that the same Phil Spector who was convicted of murdering one woman and alleged to have pulled a gun on several others?

 

Good old Phil Spector. He's a sound and safe person to anchor my opinions to.

 

Harrumph, yes. I did pause before quoting him.

But sadistic bloodthirsty murderer or not, he was spot on when it came to Ike.

Also you can't deny his 'wall of sound' technique was amazing. He was a big contributor to Ike & Tina's crossover into mainstream. Without him, Tina also wouldn't have been the success that she was.

 

So far, your argument has stemmed on the national love the nation holds for Sid Vicious and the worthy social commentary of Phil Spector.

Get Rose West on tape saying Tina popped round for tea and left a big log in the toilet and you'll have me on board.

 

Great stuff...

 

And she despised black people too of course. Fanatical about it.

Got married to some elderly white German businessman and moved to Switzerland as soon as she could.

Became an official 'honorary white' when cheerfully performing in apartheid South Africa.

She condemned black people as "lazy and uninspiring" and turned down a part in the film The Colour Purple after she found out it was a black movie.

"I wouldn't do a black picture if I was dying! It took me 20 years to get out of that black shhit and I ain't going back!"

Charming.

 

I think you luuuurve her.

 

A lot of the greats were really quite nasty people. Hello Chuck Berry.

 

I refuse to believe that the creator of 'My Ding a Ling' was anything more than misunderstood.

Especially since his cousin Marvin - MARVIN BERRY - was at the Enchantment Under the Sea Dance where Rock n Roll all kicked off.

 

I would like this post but I'm not sure that you really are genuinely confused and don't want to be whooshed.

 

I liked this post to add to the general confusion

 

You're among friends, don't worry

 

100% agree. Great post.

 

FFS, give your head a wobble.

 

COG

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ys-Labours-Jess-Phillips-racist-bullying.html

Political outrage BOILS OVER and questions are asked in the house as Katherine Birbalsingh (aka 'Britain's Strictest Headteacher', aka 'Cane 'Em Katie') a self-described 'conservative' who addressed the Tory Party conference on the shortcomings of Britain's workshy lilly-liver teachers recently, CLASHES with Labour's Jess Phillips (a cousin of Kevin 'superkev' Phillips, but an awful woman just the same) over the death of Tina Turner.

The problem is Katie put a 'Tina's With The Angles Now' video up on social media as an RIP. It showed parts of Tina's life and some of her dirges. All fine, but then there was a clip of her singing alongside that awful Ike!

As you know from the above, Ike is or was the world's premier and only celebrity wife-beater and was made to look a whole lot worse by Walt Disney. So now we are not even allowed to see his image. To gaze upon his on-screen persona is to endorse wife-beating yourself. To listen to his songs would be tantamount to femicide.

Jessica Faceache MP made this much clear on her own social media. She called Katie Cane'em 'a royt cow' or something similar and now Katie has dashed off a furious letter of complaint to Sir Keith wailing that Phillips is a 'racist and a bully'.

I'm not sure how race came in to it. Maybe it's because Ike was black or something. Anyway, it's all kicking off and it seems to me the only way this can get resolved is with a bikini mud wrestle contest in an inflatable kids' paddling pool.

 

Odd that Birbalsingh brought race into it because her previously expressed views are at odds with that. It’s almost as if she just says the first thing that crosses her mind. A bit like Jess Phillips.