The Hillsborough Conspiracy

Hopefully justice will be served on a massive scale to the people who were meant to protect and serve the public. The dignity with which the representatives of the families conducted themselves at the press conference was amazing. Justice for the 96.

 

Didnt know where to put this thread as its bigger than football but sadly there isnt a news and current affairs section of the forum.

 

It's great that the truth for all of the errors and the police and government that we all knew existed is finally coming out but am I the only one who feels a bit sick at the sheer hypocrisy of Liverpool FC and their fans calling for justice and accountability when it took them twenty years to 'apoligise' for Heysel and stop attempting to shift the blame to fans of other clubs, the police, the stadium etc.?

It's also worth noting that the few Liverpool fans found guilty of directly causing the deaths of innocent Juve fans that day only got three years inside.

 

Agree JB, always playing the victim. What happened was a massive tragedy and the failings of the police followed by the government cover-ups are inexcusable; Justice indeed for the 96 innocents but some of this doesn't sit right with me.

 

Protect and serve? Were the LAPD involved that day then?

 

Agreed. Heysel seems to be very easily forgotten. Hillsboro was a horrible tragedy where mistakes were made with horrific consequences but they were mistakes. Heysel was caused by hooligans who probably didn't expect the outcome but still are fully to blame for those fans deaths. There are a couple sets of people to blame for Hillsboro and the police are certainly a big part of this, but some fans, not many but some, helped start the chain reaction to these tragic events but this is never mentioned by Liverpool fans. It is without doubt the most sombre I've ever felt leaving a football match though. Listening to the radio on the way back from Swindon with all the horrendous reports coming in. It is right and proper that some blame should be apportioned but this needs to be done correctly. I haven't read the report so it may well do this?

 

What has the actions of hooligans at Heysel got to do with the victims and their families from Hillsbrough?

People complain about the govt/police tarring all football fans as 'animals' yet in the next breath pontificate about 'Liverpool fans' as a single entity

 

I think your intelligent enough to know what I meant. Is that going to be your only contribution to this thread? Quite surprised as I would of thought the legal ramifications of this would be right up your street.

 

I am shocked today about the cover up that the police did that day, and obviously the bad things that happened... when I have visited Anfield, I have always gone to the Eternal Flame Memorial and thanked god that whenever I have been to matches, nothing like this has ever happened.. My girls have always been quite moved that fellow footie fans went to a match just like them and didnt come home.

But whilst this report apportions blame to the police and the authorities, I am still not totally convinced that pissed up late comers were not shoving hard at the back and causing problems.

The police opened the gates for a reason... it must have been pretty bad outside for them to do that

 

Ok, I think that the dead won't be brought back and most of those in command that day 23.5 years ago are themselves either dead or elderly. There's no suggestion the deaths were caused deliberately so its negligence at best. And the politicians' favourite of 'lessons will be learned' doesn't apply as the policing that day bears no correlation to the modern era. The cover up aspect is a disgrace but so much time has passed the damage is now done. It's just another example of vested interests at the top looking out for themselves - and there's nothing new in that.

I was too young when it happened to be emotionally affected by it and it doesn't even define my time as a football fan as I've only ever known all-seater stadia and over the top stewarding. So please don't be that surprised that I don't really get all the mass wailing from people who weren't there, weren't involved and didn't know anyone who was.

So where does it go from here? I predict no one will be held criminally liable. There's zero chance of a fair trial (and thats if they can find an applicable criminal offence that was on the books in 1989). The High Court will probably order another inquest which will probably come up with a narrative or open verdict.

The fantastic legacy of Hillsborough is that nothing like that has happened since in the UK and likely never will again at a major public gathering.

 

Anyone seen Kelvin MacKenzie's apology? Too little, too late really.

 

Will get stick for this but when the gates were opened for anyone to come in, the fans that went in through the tunnel entrance must have barged through to get into the stand, hence pushing people at the front into the fences or am I wrong?

 

Spot on how I feel too.

 

'Agree JB, always playing the victim'????

FFS.

What gets me, is half the mudslingers and small minded judgemental so called fans of other clubs base their views on which club is the 'victim'.

If it was a 'family' club like say Norwich City you'd be expressing different views, but no...its scousers so theres no smoke without fire.

I'll just write one sentence which explains the depths SYP stooped to cover up there inefficiencies.....they took an alcohol blood sample from every victim including a 10 year old, thats TEN year old and then checked to see if he had a criminal record.

Thats exactly why the families never went away and every football fan should be glad they didnt,........... and WTF has Heysel got to do with Hillsborough.

 

I wtched this on tv as a 16 year old lad and at first I, like alot of people, I put it down to the fans as this was after Heysel etc but as time wore on and more of the facts came out my views wavered. All the shocking facts that have come out today including the fact that the stadium was not fit for purpose many years before this incident plus it goes all the way from Downing Street down to the average bobby is just frankly disgusting and I hoped many heads would roll because of this but after reading your post Im not very hopeful at all.

 

The front page of the sun could be interesting tomorrow

 

Whilst apologies are being handed out guess I will take the opportunity to say sorry to the Scousers who I wrongly accused of storming the turnstiles of the East Stand and urinating on Watford fans at the 86 FA Cup 1/4 final replay. Was probably Watford's or the Police's fault and just rainwater coming through the roof of the stand and not p*ss as it felt like at the time.

 

Happily ignored the rest of my post though eh? I'm glad the truth has come out. The cover up is beyond comprehension, I never thought (in my blinkered ways) that our police forces would do such a thing. BUT, as I said, not all of the outcome sits comfortably with me though.

 

It's 'The Real Truth'

 

An apology?

Also that ****** McKenzie should not be given any more airtime on TV or radio.

 

True, maybe in another 10-15 years they'll admit that 9/11 was an inside job

 

Sorry for you to feel that way. I suppose you wont feel sorry for people killed during WW2? As maybe your not Jewish dont worry about the gas chambers. Of course if your there see the dying you maybe able to feel the pain. Good luck at Uni hope your not studying Humanities or whatever they call it FAIL

 

Not sure if this is true.

 

Um NO! Unless you are a policeman or have never been in a big crowd I understand your angle. Otherwise when you make an important decision in your life think - what will happen after this action, or in this case can I cover up my stupidity?

 

talkSPORT read out that that was the headline, no idea how it looks though

 

I'm glad you ended your post by acknowledging it to be a fail. Saved me the effort.

 

Yea, as you put it fantastic legacy of hillsborgh is it wont happen to you. Dont worry I havent failed, as a human who worries about his fellow man. You havent started studying, you were too young then, and now.

 

It's interesting that there is now a generation who have no idea of what it felt like to be absolutely wedged in to a mass of fans on a steep terrace with inadequate crush barriers. It's a wonder there weren't tragedies more often.

The worst incident I have experienced at a Watford game was a dangerous crush on the poorly lit stairs at the back of the away fans section at Filbert Street in the early 80's, only lasted a few minutes but seemed much longer.

I wonder what the state of British football stadia would be today if Hillsborough (and the Subsequent Taylor Report) had never happenend.

 

I remember Oxford away being a scary day. Watford fans climbed over the fences on to the pitch to get away. We needed a win to stay up and it was pay on the day, farking madness.

On Friday night there was a big crush getting in to the ground in Moldova. There was one entrance in to the ground for both sets of fans to use and the riot police were only letting a few people through at a time. When the crowd is surging forward there's nothing you can do but go with the flow. It's not helped by people at the back pushing to get in quicker.

 

Correct, several games I went to when my feet didnt touch the terrace in 60's and 70's. Yea I remember Filbert St and a crush at Walsall when police parked a van in the exit tunnel for away fans meaning it created a funnel . The disaster would happen somewhere the authorities were rolling a dice everytime at these big events - remember they fenced us in, Chelsea electrified theirs at one time. Away fans were treated like sh1te, harsher than today. Rangers v Celtic was even worse when a last minute goal made people who were leaving try to get back in up a stairway. And the Bradford fire brought in new standards of stand construction, the pity is people have had to die just for going to a football match.

 

Never turned it on though.

True that fans were treated like shyte. We really were herded like animals. Now we're treated like children who can't be trusted to do anything.

 

And this is where I feel the conspiracy unravels a little. Due to Hillsborough there have been demonstrable improvements in football stadia and fan safety. I don't think anyone can truly say the cover up prevented any of that happening or subsequently put the public at risk. Nothing that has been revealed today is going to lead to a new Taylor-type report into football safety. It's all history. The police are a different organisation, new media makes a cover up like this impossible these days, football safety in the UK is top notch, most of the participants are long gone from public life.

As you say though there is a generation divide - people who remember it and on whom it had a profound effect who see today as very meaningful, and the younger generation for whom it's just a Wikipedia page...

 

I wouldn't say that, I would consider myself as within the younger generation and I'm still capable of feeling empathy for the families and friends of people who died at Hillsborough regardless of how much time has passed.

I am also able to appreciate the profound negative and positive affects that it has had on football since.

 

My good school mate at the time being a big London Man U fan (rather ashamedly) once and only once dragged me to see them at QPR. We only got to the away end quite late coming in with all the beered up fans rushing in from the pubs. Hearing the crowd roar and everyone surging onto the terrace I was totally lifted off my feet for quite a while and could feel my breathing being very difficult from the weight of fans pushing in behind me. Luckily the crowd swayed about as it usually did in those days and it made just enough room to breath normally. I hated being there from that point on and made a decision never again to attend a game not involving Watford. I never did.

In those days I remember it was a given that the ko (and just after) always coincided with the beered up lads lunging in late onto the terraces and usually forcing their way into the favoured middle singing section. I very imagine thats what happened also at Hillsborough that day. I read that unusually nobody was there at the end of the tunnel to tell them that the middle sections were already full.

It was a catastrophic chain of events not helped at all by the terrible reputation of football fans and especially scousers at the time. The authorities did not care one tiny bit about safety of those Liverpool fans that day. Their only mindset was to keep them controlled and away from the Forest fans. Crowd 'safety' was non existant even if similar crushes were happening at other games. When it started happening it seems they just froze in the headlights unable to change their mindset from controlling the 'hooligans' to saving their lives.

The overriding fact back then was football fans (largely through their own behaviour) were not considered as a customer to be provided a good service but a nuisance that had to be controlled. That terrible day was just waiting to happen.

Thank goodness football as a product changed for the better that day. RIP the 96.