The B Word

Discussion in 'Politics 2.0' started by sydney_horn, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    If someone had sweet f.a. prior to the referendum how has Brexit been bad for them ?
    If you have lost out then you had something to lose. Look upon this as "levelling up"
    And can you say, with a straight face, that those countries in the EU are not experiencing the same issues that GB is ?
    Arguing over how many levels of governance we should have and ultimately pay for is madness.
    IMHO .
    However , and for balance, the amount of people who rely on food banks is a disgrace.
    The fuel hike is down to Fatcher and if anyone has shares then shame on you, and let's face it, if the utilities were in the hands of the Govt then we would not be facing these price rises . No doubt.
     
  2. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Totally agree with your last paragraph.

    But Brexit has impacted even those with very little to start with. The lost exports, GDP and tax means the whole country is poorer so there will be inevitable cuts to government expenditure. NHS, education, benefits....all the things that those "at the bottom" rely on the most will have less in "their pots" to spend.

    But you are correct, supply chain issues and (mainly fuel driven) inflation have been an issue for the whole of the world, including the EU. But the fact is that we've not implemented the import checks from the EU required by Brexit yet. The government have all but admitted that, if we were to, there would be a complete collapse of the supply chain that would inevitably lead to food shortages.

    I would reverse your question. Do you really think those with FA will be any better off because of Brexit, especially with this self serving Tory government that are now empowered to reduce people's rights and working conditions previously protected under EU treaties?
     
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  3. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    The answer is no.
    As for reduced terms then the Offices Shops and Railway premises act and any subsequent version of is still in existence as far as I am aware.
    If you think ANY politician with power cares about you then you are misguided my friend
    This includes Bojo and his mob and that shower in Brussels
     
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  4. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Back in the day before we were turned into a 24 hour never sleep society , under the watch of our friends the E.U. ordinary people never had much that is for sure . But they had a life . We basically lived
    a working M-F 9-5 life. Shift workers were handsomely paid . Even supermarkets shut at 5 on a Saturday. See you on Monday morning. Today ordinary people still have very little but they have no life because they have to serve those who want a 24 hour party people society. Overtime paid at the same hourly rate?. Weekend working paid at the same as weekday . You betcha . And all under the watch of that crowd who claim to look out for us.
     
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  5. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Again, I agree. We were always promised more free time back in the 70s when automation was coming in and were told robots would do the work for us. That never happened. Will it ever? Certainly the advances in communications, allowing managers to contact their employees 24/7 has not been a positive for workers imho.

    But the EU only ever gives minimum standards and rights below which member nations cannot dip below. There is nothing stopping any member state offering it's citizens more protection above those minimums though, and many do.

    And I'm under no illusions that the EU is there setting these rules because they care about us more than any other politicians. It's simply that a single market will not work if different traders and producers have a race to the bottom to cut workers rights, inorder to undermine the "competition" (in the case of the EU, other member states).

    There has to be a "level playing field" in standards and rights beneath which no one can drop. The side effect is that every EU "citizen" has minimum working rights and safety standards. We have to rely on Westminster for those now...gawd help us.
     
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  6. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    You know those self service machines at Tesco etc Well that is someone's job.
    If you use them and you vote labour . Then you are a canute. This is just anger and not directed at you @sydney_horn
     
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  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Nothing to do with the EU and many EU countries are more observant of Sundays and late nights than we are.

    As ever, the UK has been making its own choices, or at least choosing between the ones our rulers offer us.

    But the very restrictive UK of the 1950s is not something anyone wants to go back to. We need housing and good wages to go along with the liberalisation of the hours we can drink and shop.
     
  8. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    That is what you get when people try to argue with the bleeding obvious, even though it is universally (except on this thread) understood, the opinion of the President of the EU, the opinion of the former head of the UK diplomatic service, protected by the Declaration of Human Rights, covered by International law, written in EU and UK law, and declared to be the belief of the EU.

    Not my fault that, after all that, it would still need explaining to you all.

    #youwillhavetohumiliatemebeforeIagreewithyouandeventhenIwont
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2022
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  9. Have you ever been abroad? French supermarkets over a certain size and shopping centres do not open on Sunday. Smaller supermarkets close at midday Sunday. Monday in France is often tricky to get stuff done, because a lot of places open on Saturday take Monday off. Finding restaurants on Sunday and Monday night which I have to do professionally can be a nightmare.

    Still, blame the EU for our greedy, heartless society if it makes you feel better. (It's quite bizarre - this "it happened while we were in the EU therefore it must be the EU's fault" mindset)
     
  10. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    My French brother in-law is a bank manager. He finishes at 4:30 every day except Fridays when his bank closes at lunch time. They don't open at all at the weekend. Edit: and he never answers his work mobile outside office hours.

    Funny thing is that productivity is always higher in France than the UK. It's almost as though treating workers better makes them work harder (and better). That can't be right though can it?
     
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  11. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I don’t get this. Are you a canute if you use them and vote for another party? Or can we safely assume that Tory voters are always canutes whether they use them or not?

    Technology is always going to change things. In order to get the best out of that change we need working class people to have a voice, through unions and in the media, to demand a safety net that helps people maintain a standard of living while retraining or getting another job.

    How we do things is never set in stone. There is a famous story of when Sainsburys opened the first store in the 1950s where customers could walk around and fill their own baskets. Hitherto you had to give a list to the (usually) female assistant who would get your items. A woman, absolutely affronted at being asked to fill her own basket, hurled it at Lord Sainsbury who was visiting the shop on its first day.

    Nowadays most of us wouldn’t want to go back to an army of shop assistants fetching every loaf or bag of sugar, but it may have put people out of work. Or it may have put them in work, as those stores subsequently multiplied.

    When the automatic machines arrived I spoke to a couple of staff at my Sainsburys local, because like a good lefty, I felt uneasy about the prospect of lost jobs. They told me that no one had lost a job (I’m sure there would be workforce reduction at some point, otherwise why do it) but it meant less out of hours shifts, which they welcomed. They told me they preferred being on their feet helping customers to sitting in a chair all day getting repetitive strains.

    There will be positives and negatives of any change. The role of state is to ensure by regulation that no one suffers by it.

    However, the thing really hammering shop based retail jobs is not automated tills, it’s online. The biggest concern for workers right now is that jobs have moved to warehousing, like Amazon with the big brother controls they can exert on staff.
     
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  12. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    What is the role of the individual within that?

    Is the state wholly repsonsible for the individual?

    And if so, what autonomy is the individual allowed by the state with which to further their own interests?

    Did the state provide you with your executive role?

    Did the state provide GoBE with his business?

    Are you talking about everyone, or just the working class?

    #elitistlabour
     
  13. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    German exports/imports show a marked decline with the UK. Fortunately for them they have made up the shortfall by increasing trade with the RoW:

    https://twitter.com/DennisNovy/status/1511020340541116419?t=KM9Y7NZCehrXHH4wSq7Caw&s=19

    Germany exports to UK down 24% from 2019. Exports to China up 12%, US up 12% and other EU countries up 9%

    Hang on. Didn't we leave the EU so we could trade more with the RoW, no longer bound by the protectionism and bureaucracy of EU membership? But Germany are doing just that while still in the EU? That can't be right can it?!

    And where are those damn German car manufacturers anyway? They were supposed to ride to our rescue. Don't you know they need us more than we need them? Any day now....you'll see....
     
  14. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

     
  15. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    You still think people voted for financial reasons only, that is clear. If people want to be out of the EU for more idealogical reasons, then patently they voted in their own interests, and when they vote for a party that wants to make the most of Brexit, clearly that too is in their interest.

    Voting for parties that want to return to Europe, or whose elitist leadership doesn't really want it to work, but doesn't have the balls to go all out against it, are the only things that could be considered as voting against their interest.

    Do remainers never get tired of trying to tell leavers what they voted for?
     
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  16. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    This is the summary of the cross party committee investigating UK food supply. Even if you support Brexit you must feel some anger towards this government and it's lack of preparedness and planning nearly 6 years after the referendum...

    20220407_073757.jpg
     
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  17. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Good God, “it” and “their” in the same sentence in a Select Committee report.
     
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  18. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    So, are you saying we should never have gone for lock down or closed boarders?
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2022
  19. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

  20. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    TBF the major factor at the moment at Dover is the shortage of ferries and poor weather in the channel.

    There's no doubt that Brexit has made the whole process slower and more fragile though.

    On the bright side, our exports to the EU dropping by 15%, thanks to Brexit, means there is less traffic to be held up now!
     
  21. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    C’mon, the process was very slow before P&O.

    Brexiteers can’t have it both ways. They can’t claim that everything wrong with the UK was due to a lack of sovereignty (it clearly was not) and then say that sovereignty is insufficient to run a Country properly.

    There is nothing that our useless rulers cannot ruin.
     
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  22. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

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  23. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

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  24. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    Brextinction Rebellion back in London.

    I've never seen so many white faces:D
     
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  25. HenryHooter

    HenryHooter Reservist

    New novel Corona virus discovered in Wuhan.

    Dec 2019

    Read the news mate. And, er, aren’t the regions still receiving structural fund commitments made by the EU (one of the reasons why we are still fulfilling our money commitments to the EU)?

    pretty sure this an argument that has been thrashed out on here previously.
     
  26. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Based on the fact that the P&O issues and the weather would impact both sides of the channel, it looks like something else is the major cause of these issues. Perhaps you are correct after all and it is the "B word" that the BBC are not allowed to use in their reporting that is the problem after all....

    20220410_080701.jpg
     
    Moose likes this.
  27. Quite a few social media posts from Polish truck drivers of half-empty ferry car/truck decks.
     
  28. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Those French routes will soon change to red when de Pfeffel insists upon reciprocal checks on the other side of the EU border (something that's supposed to happen in July after being postponed three times previously). Sovereignty.
     
  29. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Heavily rumoured that they will be postponed again. Taken control of our borders innit.
     
  30. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    What's going to happen to the RotW we trade with as under the much promised WTA rules we're not trading on a level playing field? Does that mean fines?
     
  31. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Almost certainly will result in legal challenges from RotW imho.

    The EU have already triggered the WTO resolution process over "discriminatory evaluation criteria in the context of a support scheme for renewable energy projects".

    https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/eu-challenges-uk-wto-dispute-over-renewables-support
     
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  32. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    "The number of UK businesses exporting goods to the EU fell 33 per cent to 18,357 in 2021, from 27,321 in 2020, according to new data from HMRC."

    A drop of a 3rd! And SMEs have been disproportionately affected as they can't afford to employ specialists to deal with the red tape. Lots of small businesses killed off by Brexit:

    https://www.cityam.com/brexit-onsla...to-eu-simply-vanish-due-to-red-tape-knockout/
     
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  33. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

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