Cant believe the bookies don't fancy the Pumas, O'Connell is a massive loss, great player, great leader and great captain. If the Pumas keep 15 men on the pitch cant see them losing. (But i have not got much correct during the World Cup) They gave the All Blacks one hell of a test
I presume France played like a side who wanted their coach out. Such a contrast to the Welsh in defeat.. Going to be a great semi in South Africa and New Zealand.
There is something seriously wrong with the French team, look at the way they celebrated at twickers in March when they lost by less the 20 odd points so they cost England the title, Credit to the All blacks, they were awesome, how does such a little nation continually dominated Rugby played in an attractive fashion. Wales have been team of the Tournament, they had no right to be in the QF (that is meant as a complement) I thought the Boks would wipe the floor with them, cant see the Boks giving the All Blacks much of a game.
I read somewhere that in NZ they don't play in age groups, they play in size groups. In this country up until about 18/19 rugby is just pass it to the biggest fella (there was always one guy in every year who was twice the size of everyone else) on your team and let him run. It was at my school anyway. With NZ's system they actually have to learn how to play as they don't have the massive advantage of being twice the size of everyone else.
Good game in Cardiff. Ireland really fighting back after Argentina stormed into a strong lead. EDIT: In the end Argentina really were too strong and took their chances. Very impressive.
Scoreline a bit flattering to Ireland. The Pumas effectively showed a real cut and thrust and simply performed better in all the key areas. Ireland may have been missing several players but all teams do. Argentina were missing Montero, Figallo and Galarza. It's a very youngish Pumas side which bodes well for their future as a rugby superpower considering how many talented youngsters are coming through there and their performances at the u20 Cup. Which is a puzzle why England who have done so well at recent u20 Cups are not translating kids into the senior set up. As for France one can safely say many of the selections of PSA were puzzling. And in certain key areas the influx of foreign players into the Top 14, the ProD1 is affecting the route French kids have and affecting the senior team. Not to mention a move away from the traditional Gallic style. I wish I had put a bet now on an all RC semifinals line up. Never mind. If Scotland beat Australia I will eat my Gilbert rugby ball. Graham Henry savaged the French team and is probably correct in saying that the Top14 has become a nice retirement home for extremely well paid professionals from the SH. It's a far cry from the time when France were the only NH team to travel down and beat the AB's on their own turf. There is a lot of soul searching for the northern hemisphere. The level of club/provincial competition is not tough enough. The lack of key skills in the breakdown, the offload the ability to see what is infront of you is not at the level of the RC.
Well Smudger, lucky for you that rugby ball can stay in the garage! How close was that though?? Really wanted Scotland to win.
Gutted. Gutted that my sweepstake team Argentina now have to play Australia and not Scotland. As I said several times during the game, 'it doesn't matter how far they are ahead and how long is left, they'll still lose.' And so it was.
Brilliant from Scotland. Very poor decisions from the ref, not just the last minute call but the sin bin was very harsh too. Scotland need to capitalise on this and take it with them into the 6 nations.
Hehe Cheeks. I would glady have chewed it for a bit at least if they had hung on. To be honest Australia were a bit off the boil particularly in the key 10 position of Foley. They were gifted a couple of tries but nonetheless not to take away from Scotland who spoiled, rose to the challenge and played an enterprising brand of attacking rugby and also gifted an early try from Seymour. One can blame Joubert (to TMO or not to TMO and on such a key decision when the ball clearly comes off last from Phipps he doesn't) but that was a sore lack of nowse from young Brown and those who should know better like Richie Gray not to take a short lineout and keep the ball tight. Utterly maddening and a decision which will haunt the team and Cotter for months and fans for years when the game was there to be won and a result which would have seen at least one new finalist for the tournament.
But within the laws of the game Forza. There was cover so no award of a penalty try on the Aussie overlap. If Maitland had knocked the ball up it would have swayed Joubert's mind in that he was trying for an intercept. Almost all knock downs and forwards are seen as cynical and usually result in a binning. And unlike Wales for instance last week the Wallabies showed how to suck in the defence as did the Pumas with the Tuculet try and convert neatly in the corner.
Unfortunately down to tournament rules RW2015 the TMO was not available to Joubert so he had to go on what he saw or thought he saw. Bit gutted for him as he's a really nice guy- and so thorough!!! But as you say Scotland made some wrong decisions which really cost them.
As a coach of U10s rugby I can relate to this. Sometimes we come up against a team with a massive kid. My team doesn't have anyone who's massive but we have a mixture of children who range from bulky down to short and quick. Since I've been coaching, about 4 years now, the RFU have made a number of changes to ensure that as the children go up through the age groups they are introduced to another layer of the rules to ease them in to it. From memory it goes like: U7s - 4-a-side, tag rugby, no contact, knock-ons overlooked but passing must be backwards. All infringements restart with free pass. U8s - 6-a-side, tag rugby, no contact, all knock-ons penalised 7th tag turnover. U9s - 7-a-side, proper tackling, similar to rugby league the tackled player gets up and passes back but turnover on 7th tackle, tackler cannot take ball unless the opponent drops it, ball cannot be ripped from opponent. U10s - 9-a-side, uncontested 3-man scrums, unlimited tackles, rucks of maximum 2 players per side, mauls 3 players per side, ball can be ripped from opponent. U11s - 9-a-side, contested 3-man scrums, kicking ball forward allowed, I'm unsure of ruck/maul numbers as I don't do that age group.
That is a bit mad Pyscho. Such a critical decision and the referee gets hung out to dry because he cannot use a facility which is there and which ultimately leads to a scrum with a gold put in. Maybe they score a try. get into position for a drop goal or Scotland turn it over but that decision will rankle for years to come. Argentina can beat Australia especially if they play like they did yesterday albeit without Folau and Pocock (both sorely missed) and SA can on their day stretch the AB's. Odds are firmly though on a cross Tasman final.
I agree GD. It's only a game and Joubert made a forgivable mistake, I hope he is dealing with the criticism well and I think it is awful that he has been hung out to dry by his employers. Thank you England for having us, it was fun while it lasted.
I was at the Australia vs Scotland game; I'm Scottish, and am very disappointed in the result (but extremely proud of the way Scotland played). Can somebody please explain to me why the apparent late-hit on Hogg in the final couple of minutes of the game wasn't picked up by the referee, the TMO or the touch judge. It was shown a couple of times on the screen at Twickenham - it certainly seemed to be late (and it looked like a shoulder charge which is also punishable). The 2 Aussies who were sitting behind me were of the opinion that they had dodged a bullet. The crucial thing would have been that Scotland could/should/would have been awarded a penalty, from which the clock could have been wound-down (leaving aside the fact that the Aussie could/should/would have been sin-binned for the final moments of the match).
That I don't know - I thought it was an obvious penalty at the time and the TJ or TMO should have picked up on it as Joubert had moved on. Had it been given the keyboard warriors / arm chair refs and pundits would have had nothing to vent their fury on
I was there too. Three points, game over. You cannot say that the referee didn't screw over the Scots.
Don't usually get this much discussion and debate about the refs in rugby so it just shows what an important "mistake" the decision was.
Ref makes mistake, shock horror, if he had made the mistake in the first few minutes then it would not have been talked about, the scots did not gain good possession from their throw because they made mistake, if they had the ref would,not have made a mistake. Rugby is getting more and more like football, the players are starting to question the ref, if a player even raised his eyes it would be mean 10 yards. Rugby is a nearly impossible to referee with consistency, how often is a ball put in straight to to scrum now? At what point is a player not releasing or rolling away? I thought I understood the game but have not got a clue how the ref knows who to penalise at a scrum, I know the game is professional but rugby league still seem to respect the ref. The penalty that cost England the game against the taffs it could be argued that the reason that brown was not releasing was because a wales player had his arms wrapped around him. We are moaning like a load of footy fans
With my rugby referee hat on, I make mistakes but that happens. The one thing that is consistent is that the referee is always right (even when he's wrong!). When the ball is in the ruck it is not always possible to see where the ball is, whether it's being held up, with players joining in it's easy to miss someone coming in at the side. The one area I know I need to improve upon is to call end of advantage at the appropriate stage after a minor infringement. It's also difficult to referee if the game has moved on but there's a player down. But most of all I will only allow the captain to talk to me, if he questions a decision I will explain what the call was for. If they claim I missed a forward pass for example, I can only be in one place at any one time. If I'm not in line and there's a marginal forward pass, I have to give the benefit of doubt to the team in possession.
No touch judges at that level - Otters on his own!! Even with coaches running they are only allowed to rule on touch - avoids conflict and argument
Finally some decent words!! Queensland Rugby Referees Association - QRRA 7 hrs · A great piece by our colleague NSW Refs President John McCarthy. This is well worth a read from anyone who loves rugby and sport in general whether you are a ref or not. "I am totally over the poor treatment of sports officials. Not just after Craig Joubert last weekend, but sport in general, and at all levels. It seems that there is a widely held view that referees (I’ll use that term to include umpires, assistants and other associated match officials) are parachuted in from space with the sole intention of ruining others’ fun. And that they know nothing about the game. Well, for those who aren’t aware, here’s a reality check for you. There are only 7 prescribed people needed to have a formal game of Rugby. Six suitably trained front rowers plus a referee. The other 24 can be anyone. You don’t even need a coach! So, sorry to break it to you, but refs aren't going anywhere, and they’re as much an integral part of the game as any player or coach. They're not a necessary evil. They're simply necessary. Further, representative Rugby referees are required to have the aerobic capacity of an openside flanker, speed of an outside back, and as great a knowledge about the game technically, including scrum, as the most astute coaches. I repeat, scrum. That’s for you, Phil Kearns. They have an honest and incredibly thorough review process, which invariably demonstrates that a ref’s greatest critic is him or herself. Just like the best at anything, there are hours upon hours of matches, preparation, training, review, a burning desire to improve, and yes, accountability. So, to “the” decision from the weekend. I defy anyone who saw it once and in real time, to have a different point of view to Craig. Yes, a thousand replays from as many angles and in super slo-mo might indicate that the ball made contact with Phipps for a millisecond and hence what appears to be clear and obvious becomes arguable. But the reaction to last weekend by some who should know better has been as unbelievable as it has been diabolical. People such as Gavin Hastings and Matt Dawson. Yep, the same Gavin Hastings who missed a penalty from in front in the 1991 World Cup Semifinal. Yes, Gavin, a mistake which cost your team a place in the Final. And Matt Dawson? Matt who? If it weren’t for Jonny Wilkinson mate, your name would be consigned to history's dustbin of hasbeens. It is no less legitimate, or no less an achievement for a referee to reach International level, than a player. You might be entitled to think that these ex-players might know a thing or two about empathy and big game pressure but they have been among the most vocal. Oh, the irony ! To put some perspective around this, what would have happened if Scotland had won, and James Slipper’s intercept pass been the defining moment, or if Bernard Foley’s kick hadn't gone over? One thing’s for sure: they wouldn’t have been subjected to the same level of vitriol, and most importantly, their teammates would have been quick to offer their support. So to the statement from World Rugby. Clarification and transparency is admirable, but the lack of public support of Craig Joubert is disappointing to say the least. Not just because he is one of the top 4 referees in the world. But surely, with an incident that created as much emotion and anger as this, it is quite possible that a person’s physical and emotional wellbeing is under threat. But instead of making a statement that highlighted the reality of the decision as outlined two paragraphs above, or condemning the ridiculous comments made by some, we hear a deafening silence. In a magnificent game such as Rugby, which generates enormous passion and emotion, of course there will be comments made in the heat of battle. That is not what we’re talking about here. Nor is there any sense that referees are not accountable. They most certainly are. But there’s line that should never be crossed, and unfortunately in this instance, that line has been obliterated to an extent that would make Steve Hooker proud. Craig, having been President of NSWRRA (one of the foremost referee societies in the world) for 13 years, and as someone who has the pleasure of knowing you, I say on behalf of my Association, that you have our full, unequivocal 100% support. And I daresay, the same from countless similar bodies worldwide. And in a strange twist of fate, who knows, this may prove to be the catalyst for a change for the better. Trust you’re ok, mate, as our game needs more quality people like you, not the ignorant loudmouths who have dominated the airwaves. Wouldn't blame you if you walked away, as noone needs that. But it would be the game's loss if you did."
I always asked them for an informal, nod or a wink, if I missed something or made a really stupid decision. I know of two Herts RFU refs who started this way - they basically turned up at tag with their child and asked the fatal question "anything I can do to help?". Middle class rugby mum's were farking nightmares to deal with.
It's all very magnanimous of the Wallabies to show their support for Joubert but had the boot been on the other foot I doubt veyr much whether Cheika would be voicing the opinions he has been this week given his previous record. It really needed more common sense than sticking to the exact rules at the time but common sense is something which laws and rules in every walk of life often precludes. Joubert knew looking at the big screen he had made an error and to see him run off is something which isn't very pleasant and more reminiscent of a game of football between two extremely fierce rivals. The excuse being he had to go to the rest room. Whether or not that is true not hanging around to shake hands with the players leaves an unpleasant taste in the mouth. That said the respect for the referee in this World Cup has been a privilege to watch such as van Heerden coming up to the referee to apologize for his yellow card indiscretion in the match between Romania and Italy. The Boks will be kicking themselves. Failed to exploit the man advantage, Matfield's indiscipline was costly and failed to play territory. Their mistakes or the AB's raising their game again especially in the second half ? Japan's franchise in Super Rugby now has a name the Sunwolves but Goromaru will be joining the Queensland Reds which is far from ideal linking up with Tomas Cubelli who will not be playing with the UAR franchise.
Sam Burgess to return to Rugby league? Has he just become the scapegoat for England's performances in the Union World Cup.. The media a alwgays have one regardless of the sport!
Well it is over, the best team won, beating the 2,3,4 best teams in the world on the way, worthy champions and played good rugby, think Australia were a bit unlucky to lose by 17, less said about England the better, really don't know where to go from here, larger budget and resources than any other nation, I personally don't want a foreign head coach, I think we need to get Sir Clive back at the top, not head coach but even higher, it will be slow progress but there will be progress, we are no better off than we were four years ago, only one great victory against a knackered all blacks side. Still have not got a clue who our best 15 are. Got battered at the scrums, never seen a team take england apart like the Aussies did in all departments at HQ, and have seen us play the All Black there a dozen of times, we lost by 30 odd points to South Africa once but will did compete in certain departments. Ireland Choked again in the QF after winning their group convincingly, the Welsh were team of the tournment, along with Japan, how they got 15 men to give the Boks a game and almost win it was unreal, they had two very very Physical games against England and Australia. The Argies did well, I thought them competing against the other southern teams every year would be like what Italy did in the 6 nations, started well but go backwards, but now they are a serious force in all departments. Scotland did well and will be interesting to see how they do in the six nations Great World Cup, well organised, all the foreigners I spoke to and met at the games said it is the best World cup by Far. Roll on Japan and congratulations to the All Blacks,
I think NZ and Argentina were the two best teams in the tournament. Certainly in the way they exploited space and beat opponents. Australia minus Pocock and a fully fit Folau are not as great as all that. South Africa struggled to make any real headway against the AB's and Australia only came into the game against them with the sin binning before the AB's upped the gears once again. Argentina threw their semifinal away. Gifted away two early tries and then failed to capitalize on numerous breaks especially that of Cordero just before halftime. And hampered by losing key players like Creevy, Hernandez and Imhoff. The last in particular would have been on hand to run off the shoulder of several of the line breaks made during the second half. They also unlike their game against NZ tried to spin the ball out wide too early without fully committing the Australian fringe defence. As for the tournament as a whole. Superbly organized minus some travel issues. Great atmosphere, great camaraderie (managed to speak to numerous fans from different countries) and more money to plough into the development of the world game. And what was immensely pleasing is the way teams are developing, how tournaments are growing globally. The disappointments to me were the performance of the USA and Samoa. Tolkin needs to go. He wasted the talents of arguably the best ever squad sent to a WC and Samoa only decided to show up against Scotland (a game they also threw away). The PI unions desperately need a higher level of competition than the PNC, funding for infrastructure and a body to sort out the corruption and interference from government in their decision making. Argentina highlighted their status as future world champions. It's not as simple as saying that the RC has been the catalyst for their success. It's been a long slow process. The essentials unlike Italy are a strong club competition with a healthy playing base and over the last two decades as professionalism has been accommodated by the stick in the muds at the UAR the technical feedback and experiences of players who have played in Europe has been passed on. 2007 was a prime motivator but also the work of Les Cusworth former England fly half and now Argentine national in developing a system of excellence centres. Additional funding from 2007 has allowed for the first time ever the high performance coaching of selected juniors with huge improvements at junior level feeding into the senior side along with increased participation (and also outside of the traditional middle class preserve). The administrators tore up the old formulas and perhaps England should do the same and have a firebrand like an Agustin Pichot to reform a body that has failed to respond to the modern game. Words of advice from Graham Henry other AB coaches like Alex Wyllie will have sunk in, a sevens team that unlike the US and Canada and England then provides skilled forwards and backs to the full fifteen (Cordero, Tuculet are just some while others like Moyano and Muller will be shortly in after the Olympics). And this is still on a shoestring budget compared to the RFU. One can liken the RFU to the ECB. More content under Giles Clarke to count the money in the coffers than focus on radical changes to make the domestic game more competitive and pressured. Slim down the counties in cricket, get rid of the playoff nonsense and increase relegation from the top division to make each game in the Premiership more important. Perhaps both France and England ought to go to a provincial set up. It works for other countries although Italy might have been better with just one such side, Argentina will undoubtedly benefit hugely from their new Los Jaguares Super team. But is anyone at the RFU willing to contemplate this ? And indeed how about selecting the best players ? Leaving Nick Abendanon and Steffon Armitage in retrospect, both European players of the Year on 2014 & 2015 seems silly. As this prophetic video shows: [video=youtube;dkRfk7Xl6pw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkRfk7Xl6pw[/video] And forcing players like Sam Burgess due to the cost of their recruitment into the national team far too early and into a position they are less than comfortable with. Burgess would have been better deployed as a hard hitting openside in terms of his defence and his ball carrying. He has been made a scapegoat but him walking away is rather weak unfortunately. That's not to say League players cannot succeed. They have done so in the past and they will do so again. Someone like Josh Jones of the Saints who is now with Exeter but had played union with Preston Grasshoppers as a teenager and who is more than young enough to eventually stake a claim to the national team. And this biff, bosh approach to rugby in the NH. Most seen in the likes of France where brute force starting with the likes of Traille has replaced flair and quickness of thought but also in Wales. Roberts. England. Burgess. The talent is there. The Junior World Cups certainly show that England and Wales in recent years more than match the traditional three of the SH but somehow as in football there is a loss of players. There is a loss in their flair and dynamism. Far too much pragmatism. A club game that is often a grunt fest. Whereas the conversion rate of juniors from the SH to their senior sides is far greater and they continue to play with flair and a lack of fear. One other thing. The use of clocks. In the final there were several crucial minutes consumed before the Barrett try by resetting the scrum. The rulemakers need to change time on and off for these. Time should only be on once the ball has been put into the scrum and it has been successful. It still can be a niggling part of the sport where much time is lost in resets. My favourite player of the tournament Shane Williams reborn (and unsurprisingly he is Shane Williams favourite player) the 21 year old Santiago Cordero. A little naive at times (that knock on in his own 22 for instance in the semifinal) but a player to get everyone off their seats. [video=youtube;BuYsHPFF3hk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuYsHPFF3hk[/video] And farewell to a host of great players. McCaw, Fernandez-Lobbe, Burger both Jacques and Schalk to name but a few. What rugby epitomizes was summed up to me in that bronze playoff when Burger and Lobbe exchanged greetings and applauded each other when Lobbe was substituted. The best RWC to date and a key landmark in the development of the sport. NZ as expected reign supreme and they will do so for a few years to come but the others will catch up: [video=youtube;jRI_HQIz74c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRI_HQIz74c[/video]
