Rugby Union - Six Nations & Erc

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Sting, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Very good win by Ireland .

    Their reward for winning the group will probably be facing the All Blacks though!
     
  2. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    This is what happens when you go into an evenly matched game without a top class goalkicker. In a tight match you end up losing.
     
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  3. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Pollard looked bored on the sidelines. Can't say I feel any sympathy for the Boks. Done bugger all for rugby in Africa. Had a massive row with some idiot one of the old fart brigade as well who was delivering his ideas on rugby. Should only be ten teams at the World Cup. Waste of time having anyone else. If Georgia are to join the 6N they should wait another fifty years. They couldn't even beat Italy. I pointed out to the dimwit that Georgia had beaten Italy 28-19 the other year and that their u20s had nilled Argentina at the u20 World Cup, beaten Italy u20 and ran South Africa u20 close too.

    That they are struggling despite having the biggest depth of squad than before is down to their coach. He has weakened their scrum. I love the idiots on ITV who like their counterparts in football obviously have not got a clue about T2 rugby as with football outside the Top Six parasites. Argentina's scrum is their biggest weapon so is Georgia. Actually both nations scrums are not that great as they used to be. Down to coaching and selection. If the coach was decent as I said he'd have not picked some of the veterans but youngsters including one or two from the u20s. Kakhoidze was in the 33 man squad but hasn't even been on the bench. I mentioned Kuntelia as well. He's also the modern prop dynamic in the loose and a good ball handler.

    Their star as yesterday is Niniashvili and Kakhoidze will be on a par but no you have the terrible Shirikadze instead. If they had a Kiwi coach as they did I'm sure results would be far better. I mean NZ have struggled under Foster, Australia under Jones so having the right coach is important. I really wanted to hit this pillock who unfortunately represents what many fans of the older unions think and what controls union and stifles development of the sport.

    As I said Portugal's backs sparkled and Storti whom I mentioned is a star in the making and will move from ProD2 to the Top14 in no time at all. And most of this side is still semiprofessional although they play in a provincial side the Lusitanos. I'm sure more kids will take the sport up there and the union over there is looking to make the sport fully professional for contracted players who at the moment as was mentioned work in the week like Tomas Appleton the dentist. Indeed in time I think it would be great to have the Lusitanos in the URC along with Black Lion and a representative Spanish side. Hoping the likes of Martins gets a contract abroad for instance too. Outstanding yesterday.

    Routine win for England although the crowing and delight given the level of opposition was a bit sickening. Chile too for the most are semiprofessionals and for the first twenty minutes despite fielding only six first choices (the likes of Escobar and Torrealba unavailable due to injury) showed great enterprise and ability. Faded in the last twenty unfortunately. First decent side England face and they will be on their way home. Hopefully Tonga with a bit more time together and a better lineout than shown against Ireland (scored more points than South Africa) can spring a surprise against Bokland. Come on you Sea Eagles. Strike a blow again for the T2s and PIs.
     
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  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Excellent from Wales so far.

    Dominated against a poor Aussie side.

    Some very good tries and well placed kicking.

    Eddie Jones will be very quiet after this.
     
  5. Halfwayline

    Halfwayline Reservist

    Eddie Jones getting booed every time his face goes on the screen….priceless

    Can’t see where Aussie rugby union goes from here. Declining interest in the sport domestically and lacking in funds
     
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  6. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Portugal gave Wales more of a game !
     
  7. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Wales totally bossed the game. I thought they may have problems when Biggar went off but Anscombe really stepped up. Have never felt so calm and relaxed for a game against Australia, who were really poor. The cherry on top of the icing of a very pleasant cake was holding the ball up on their goal line right at the end to keep the Aussies tryless and give Eddie Jones no crumbs of comfort. Where on Earth do Australia go from here? I was waiting for the Wayne Barnes Fark Up but it never came. Gatland building yet another Wales Team and forging it at a World Cup. He keeps on doing it for Cymru.
     
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  8. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Uruguay v Namibia. Excellent entertainment.
     
  9. Jersey Hornet72

    Jersey Hornet72 Academy Graduate

    Jersey Reds have ceased trading and expect to go into liquidation. Bit of a shock on the island.
     
  10. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Out of sason m8. It's all about the Royals anyway.
     
  11. Jersey Hornet72

    Jersey Hornet72 Academy Graduate

    More about the finance industry than the royals these days sadly.
     
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Japan beating Samoa .

    Sounds like there has been more inconsistency over the head to head tackle situation.
     
  13. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    So when does this rugby nonsense finish?
    Next Sunday ?
     
  14. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    That is the group stages.

    Mid October.
     
  15. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    :(
     
  16. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    It's not compulsory to watch it, you know.
     
  17. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Great. Is there a red button or something I can press to block it out of the main news, sports news, tv adverts for the matches and highlights ?
     
  18. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Just do something else. It's really not that hard. It's a technique I use to screen out all reality shows and much celebrity gossip.
     
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  19. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Watch the golf instead?

    Cricket starts next week .
     
  20. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

  21. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Last night NZ were good. They upped it a gear but that's no excuse for the way Italy capitulated. It was also extremely surprising given the way they played in the 6N. Few players can receive credit from last night aside from Ioane, Capuozzo and Brex.


    The pack normally solid was abject. They competed against France and France more than tamed NZ yet last night they were shoved at the scrum constantly conceding penalties, maul defence was abject and the lineout was something you see in Tier 3 rugby. Lofted balls throw in and no one with any idea of where to go and lift. One try was a bit fortunate for NZ with the bounce but you create your luck. Six were absolute gifts. I don't think the ABs expected these either. Conceding a try from a kickoff into the opposition 22 and missing tackle after tackle. Twice off a scrum allowing an AB to glide in unopposed. And further appalling fringe defence to leave a gaping hole to allow a 2 on 1. Then Page-Relo with his comical charge down. And Odogwu stepping in off the flank at a line out to allow another easy 2 on 1.

    Shockingly bad. Someone like Telea. Like the French did. Either one goes high and another low or just employ the chop tackle. When you fall off first up tackles or allow the space to allow momentum to build you are going to suffer. 31 missed tackles. And in offence. No idea what Crowley was thinking. NZ were not committing to the ruck and spreading wide yet the Italians kept trying to play expansively running into trouble. When sides employ a high rushing line at speed you either play deep to a 10 or 15 in the line to chip or hit one long over the defence. Or as a wing outside centre you grubber the ball through and chase hard. In both cases you turn the opposition and then force them to kick into touch with territorial gain. Not only was the Italian side deficient in technique but also IQ throughout.

    It's a young side compared to the ABs in age and caps. I hope it's a salutary lesson and that in another 4 years they will be much improved plus their terrific u20s who don't seem mentally fragile like many of their seniors will be integrated into the side. That was another thing. 3 tries in 5 minutes and they were shell shocked but no one said or grabbed each other giving smacks on the had saying this is simply not good enough. Maybe we've lost the game now , but let's show some pride get something on the board and minimize the damage. Awful. A result like this won't do the sport any good in Italy.
     
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  22. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    It’s funny, I’ve hardly seen it mentioned and was wondering if anyone cares beyond the hardcore eggers. But then again my viewing habits extend beyond the 5 terrestrial channels.
     
  23. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Fiji doing their best to keep the door ajar for the Aussies.
     
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  24. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    Handre Pollard showing exactly what the South Africans missed last Sat against Ireland with a 100% kicking rate and a controlling performance at 10.
     
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  25. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I you do that you will be redirected to the 7 week long cricket World Cup group stage :)
     
  26. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Quite - and they wonder why these events don’t get the coverage football does but then with the World Cup increasing to 48 teams in 2026 suppose that will go on for ever .
     
  27. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I remember years ago when the World Cup was just 16 countries they played group games simultaneously - not just the last games in a group, but across groups too. Maybe even some of the knockout games as well. Then the demands of TV took over and almost every game now has to be at a different time. These tournaments don’t need to take so long.
     
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  28. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Romanian rugby is in a mess. The federation they have don't know how to develop the sport. The head honchos are more interested in luxury trips to France. The coach is inexperienced and only has domestic experience. He also made some bizarre choices like leaving out 2 players with Top14 experience. Why ? Players have said the coaching is a mess too. Injuries have not helped but neither has switching lineups constantly especially at half back. There is no recognized flyhalf in the side either. What is very worrying that is Romania u18 finished bottom of the 8 team European championship and were beaten by Spain 102-0. Spain are really moving forward and but for a technicality would have been at this WC not Romania.

    It's extremely sad to see a once proud rugby nation in the state it is. Remember back in the 1980s they drew with NZ beat all of the Home Unions barring England. They need to get someone in who will increase junior numbers, better junior coaching and make the league stable with 10 top level clubs that the rest feed into. And try and get a side into the Challenge Cup as well. It's going to be a long term project. In the game itself they fought well but having 3 yellow cards was costly. Mind you the referee was quick to penalize Rosu but numerous Scottish infringements on their own line went unpunished. Scotland are only where they are because of imports notably from South Africa. Their own juniors are pretty bad. They lost to Uruguay in the u20 World Trophy but as usual WR bend the rules for the old boys and are thinking of an expanded u20 World Trophy which runs below the u20 World Cup for the top 12 sides current holders being France.

    Romania need to follow Portugal's lead in junior development. The scoreline flatters Australia considerably as for most of the game the Wolves were the best side. The have a fantastic back three in Marta, Storti and Guedes. Lagisquet has instilled that old style French flair into them. They stuffed up a couple of tries notably Martins failing to pass the ball inside to Guedes just before half time. While wonderful to watch their expansive rugby at times they were a little naive. A minute to go for Bettencourts yellow to expire Marques chips over. It's collected and run back for an Australian try. The sole difference was strength too in contact. Given that most of the Portuguese side are semiprofessionals that's just down to gym work.

    The Portuguese President was there watching. I'm sure rugby will get a funding boost, more sponsorship. And more importantly many young kids will be interested now and take the sport up. Longer term Portugal need to get a professional league if possible, a side like the Lusitanos not just in the Challenge Cup of Europe but into the United Rugby Championship. It would be great if the URC has a second tier with sides like Black Lion from Georgia, a rep.side from Spain and maybe Holland plus an additional 2 SA teams and others.

    Tonga looked better last night too. The scoreline flattered SA as well. Three cheap tries one again from being naive trying to run out from the 22, coughing the ball up and allowing a simple score, and a bit of fortune for SA with the ball coming off the shoulder for Moodie to score. Not to mention the referee not making the mark but still allowing Reinach to score with the Tongan's backs turned. Also highlights their need for a kicker. They missed all 3 conversions. Kefu said the side needs time together. Problem is the French season runs deep so in the summer when there are tournaments like the Pacific Test Championship these players are unavailable. Also the eligibility rule change. Players like Fekitoa are available now. But they are available not at their peak but in their 30s so it will be a constant race for teams like Tonga to try and scoop up players this way. It would be better if players like the young scrum half Fakatava in the AB squad declared for Tonga now.

    Indeed 3 of the AB side were Tongan born and represented Tonga to the age of 16. They get scholarships to NZ and end up playing for NZ. NZ say well most of the Tongan team learnt rugby in NZ being born to first generation parents. Sure that is true. But I still think it's a bit rich for them to keep pinching such players. And they also make sure that players from the islands and abroad in order to play Super Rugby don't declare for their nation. That needs to stop. The same with SA.

    I mean NZ have capped German Anton Segner at u20 along with Dutchman Fabian Holland. Both should be looking to play for the countries in which they developed Segner at SC Frankfurt, Fabian at Castricumse. Both are chasing an AB jersey but I think that is sad. Players like these need to spearhead their own nations development and Holland are forming a nucleus of a very good side for the future.

    As to the duration of this WC ? Union is a very tough sport physically. A week's rest on average for each side is fair and better for player welfare. It's likely 2027 will be 24 sides in six groups of four with a round of 16.
     
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  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Another hammering looming for Italy?

    France 10-0 up already.

    Some rather uncompetitive games recently.

    Roll on the last 8!
     
  30. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Impressive from Portugal again .

    Couldn’t quite save the Aussies .

    Shame that eh ?


    ;)
     
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  31. reg_varney

    reg_varney Squad Player

    3 very entertaining games today. Topped off by the game of the tournament so far. Poor Eddie Jones, Fiji's losing bonus point just enough to send them to the quarter-finals. I expect a very fired up Fiji when they take on England.
     
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  32. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member


    • Argentina normally would swat Japan aside. They still look deficient in some areas and are not performing to the level they can. I don't like seeing Santiago Carreras at flyhalf especially when he is off form. Sanchez must start against Wales but Cheika is very stubborn. Good sequences ie score try then Rubiolo knocks on at the restart. These need to be eradicated and better competition at the ruck. Matera is out for sure so I'd expect Gonsalez to go into his natural flanker role and Isa a natural 8 to go into that position. Bruni onto the bench. Japan are still heavily reliant on naturalizations. Their own domestic programme is moving forward but they need to do better in that regard. The league is well funded by corporations. The odd thing is the four Japanese playing in NZ in the NPC and chasing an AB jersey. They should be looking to play for their own nation given that the chances of gaining an AB jersey are small.

      Tonga as expected breezed through Romania though it's a more creditable performance from the Oaks. They have players like the fullback Simonescu and Boboc who can play at a higher level than the Romanian domestic league and others like baby faced Conache (distinguished rugby family) who has talent. But as mentioned before the federation needs total reform and a dedication to grass roots rugby, growing numbers, stabilizing clubs and getting the best kids into France. There are a lot of Romanian emigres in England and France perhaps some may end up in rugby. Theo Dan playing for England is an example. Adrien Mitu son of Petre is playing espoirs rugby in France and is eligible and several others playing in France have been called up to the u18 squad for the forthcoming European u18 Rugby Championship.

      Tonga will hope like the kid making his debut and scoring Tamoufolau that Moana Pasifika in SR can provide them with a regular stream of players. But you also have to see the pride of these players. Some who are retiring from the international scene lie Surigiu and Gorin in tears. People decry these teams but it means so much to these players. Fiji will need to buck up their ideas. The lineout is still not functioning, neither is maul defence and with their coaches visibly upset they reverted to their old ways of playing as individuals. Highly talented of course but it's a team sport and that doesn't win games at this level. They played a very structured game to beat England, Australia and would have beaten Wales but for the referee but in their last 2 games whether it's being too casual or taking the opposition for granted their level has dropped.


      They'll need to revert to their A game to beat England. And hope Mayanavanua is fit too. But no small credit to Os Lobos and Lagisquet who will have made many fans of the neutrals and put Portuguese rugby firmly on the map. The celebrations at the end was rugby in it's pure form. Commiserating with the other team and then celebrating directly with your fans. Something that rarely happens in sports today. The sevens influence and the old French style were very much in evidence. They've shown what T2 sides with some real preparation including a warm up game against Ireland can do. They have been a joy to watch. The benefits will be another boost to junior playing numbers which are increasing all the time anyway. More awareness in the general public in Portugal and sponsorship and some players like Portela getting pro contracts abroad. To admit them to the 6N is premature as the depth in squad is not there. Lusitanos need ideally to be in the URC or a second tier URC and have sufficient depth to be competitive over a season. The entire front row are on the verge of retirement and Marques at 37 will need replacing. However their u20s are pretty decent. Also the question of their coaching direction with Lagisquet ending his tenure.


      Georgia are the side that need admittance to the 6N and u20 6N. Despite not having performed as they should that comes down to poor player selections, injuries and coaches who are not of the top drawer. The scorelines against Australia bely the chances they wasted and against Wales the scoreline would have been far tighter but for a gift of a try and 2 tries that were fortunate to be awarded including one with a suspiciously forward pass.Their u20s have some exceptional players one or two already making their mark in the Top14 and they have the depth to play a sustained tournament like the 6N. Black Lion should be in the URC as of right not having to travel to South Africa to play Currie Cup. Unfortunately the stick in the muds still want to keep the door closed. World in Union. Lol.


      Samoa also desperately unfortunate. They showed what they can do and again with Moana Pasifika as a template I hope they can carry that forward. England looked mediocre and incredibly uninspired and made for most of the game to look incredibly ordinary.The winner still will come from Ireland, France, SA and NZ. Ireland didn't let Scotland have a sniff until they relaxed. Clinical performance. Bench strength though could be a deciding factor in what are expected to be these titanic clashes along with discipline.




      For most of the Tier 2s the things WR could help them with are more Tests v T1s. Specialist coaching on lineouts, maul defence and for several of these sides to find decent props to anchor their scrums. In some cases it is sheer size that is an issue. Other things. Place kicking coaches and also general IQ. Rugby is a game of territory. Too often T2s don't play this well and end up under incessant pressure. Professionalism for all would solve a lot of the issues in contact and rucks because players would have higher core strengths. Sadly WR is still very much an Anglocolonial relic and doesn't have the people to make these decisions or indeed upset the applecart by for example asking for Lions tours to be scrapped. They really need to rapidly increase the competitive depth and strength of the sides ranked 14-30 in the world currently. Portugal I have no doubt will be soon forgotten and will play a pitiful number of Tests before the next RWC. It's a shame and a disgrace how union is run.
     
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  33. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    The spirit of rugby which is a shame the people who run union don't follow.



    Those who genuinely love the sport should be aiming to grow and develop it as much as possible. Unfortunately this idiotic World League is going to minimize the number of matches between T1 and T2s. Portugal for instance benefitted not just from their very professional approach and Lagisquet but playing Ireland in a behind doors game. It allows sides to experience the pace the top teams play at. As I said strength and conditioning is another major aspect. Not only does the WL minimize matches but there is no promotion or relegation until 2032. No wonder the sport is so slow to progress. And even then the likes of Japan and Fiji in the top group of 12 will not get the same level of revenue as the other ten teams. Yet another way especially with regards to Fiji of hoarding funds and stopping development. Fijian rugby is already run on a minimal budget so you can imagine what an influx of resources could do for them.

    I've always had this suspicion as a child that the old unions have deliberately hindered other teams progression so that they can hold onto their dominance for as long as possible. When Samoa emerged the ABs decimated that side and then kicked them out of Super Rugby for instance. People with little idea about union below the usual suspects have been bleating about how we need a Plate competition at the World Cup.

    What's the point of that ? T2s play each other all the time and have been doing so for years. It doesn't challenge them to get to the next level. Sure it may take a few beatings but lessons are learnt when you play a better team. And Georgia. They are at all levels more than qualified to play in the 6N as opposed to Portugal whose playing depth needs to expand. But they are locked in this limbo. The Chilean union's President for instance has not wasted his time in France. He's been picking the brains of the Irish union's development officers to understand how Ireland have turned their fortunes around. They Chile are planning a second franchise based around Concepcion. Perhaps long term given how they are treated inside WR which is really an Anglocolonial body (Argentina and France voted against the World League concerned by it's repercussions for the sports development) it is best for T2s to develop themselves and bring in expertise and help each other and eventually give the T1s a bloody nose.

    Scotland whose u20s are pitiful managed to avoid playing in the qualifying European stage for next years World Trophy as the tournament is set to be expanded but probably only as a result of their failure to get promoted back to the u20 World Championship. They also threw a tantrum when Spain and Georgia beat them in the u18 event a few years ago and flounced off.
     
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  34. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Disappointing for Wales .

    Argentina good in that 2nd half
     
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  35. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Disappointing from Cymru…way too many unforced errors.
     
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