Public breast-feeding.

everybody here lives such different lives to me. i almost never (consciously) see kids/babies breastfeeding when i'm going about my eating/drinking businesses. i feel left out

 

I haven't got a problem with kids/babies in restaurants. There is nothing I like to see more than a happy family enjoying themselves. I also love to see a parent remove their crying infant out of earshot of the other diners, as this is simply good, considerate parenting . What is the problem?

 

Kelso, imagine you're eating in a restaurant, cheap or expensive, makes no difference. The table next to you has 2 families with a few kids of mixed ages. The kids are bored after eating and the parents are making no efforts to amuse them whatsoever. The kids are running riot in the restaurant because that's what kids do without supervision. It's a restaurant, there isn't a lot of room usually. The parents completely ignore their kids and the kids get louder, more boisterous and further from their own table, (usually the same parents who ignore their kids are the same one's that fill them up with Pepsi over dinner, so the kids are pumped full of sugar too).

Who is the problem here, the kids or the parents?

So why do you assume people who dare want to enjoy eating out get a bit pi**ed off when kids are running riot. It's not the kids fault if their parents are morons.

 

Babies are usually weaned at 6months-1 year old. Very little running riot before that.

 

I get that, but the subject was going well off the original post which isn't always a bad thing.

 

Conversation moved on I'm afraid.

 

Yes, it's moved on to suit people who were sounding irrational and nasty to create fantasy scenarios where parents and children are acting beastly in order to justify some of the things that have been said.

 

OK. I recognise a barrage of incoming flak when I see it and feel it! And you're always a fair combatant unlike your sidekick. That relationship might now be terminal. Anyway, if you're paying big bucks for that special experience, then how come your expensive restaurant of choice can't, or doesn't see the need to, deliver it for you?

 

My guiding principle for life has always been that my right to throw a punch ends where someone else's nose begins.

A little consideration goes a long way.

 

it happens every day on these forums. afterwards you get something like
"can you clarify whether you support
a) one untenable and ridiculous position or
b) a different but equally untenable and ridiculous position"

 

Molly started it by likening a baby's needs to the uncouth behaviour of others ... Jumbo? - well Jumbo just did what he always does and put his foot right in it again.

 

It's a fair question.

I think there are 3 classes of good restaurants, none of which are any better than the other (when you take the value for money into account).

1) Good local family run places (not chains). Family run Italians for example. I fully expect a loud boisterous atmosphere and kids part of the deal and welcome
2) Trendy higher end restaurants. Something like Roka or Apsleys for example. These market themselves as trendy and do allow children.
3) More stuffy 2/3 michelin star places. Alain Ducasse/Gavroche etc. These places don't allow kids (as far as I know).

The problems I have run into are the places in category 2. The majority of kids there have been well extremely well behaved. However, I have seen incidents of either babies who cry and are unattended. Or kids who are bored and running around. The staff are mortified when this happens, but they are constrained by restaurant policy. I think it's unfair on the other customers when this happens. Unfortunately the food can be so good (and in my opinion is often better than the food in restaurant class 3) that it is worth the sacrifice as it only happens very rarely.

The fact it is rare, doesn't stop me from thinking that the parents involved are utterly selfish though.

 

All fair. And obviously been there and seen it. Yeah it pisses me off too when parents are paying no attention at all to their kids causing mayhem. And I've had words with parents on occasion (does that surprise you?). Reactions vary. But generally I'll engage with the kids and have a bit of a laugh. I just guess I'm a take it onboard kinda guy and if the evening goes a bit differently from the one originally planned it's not a big deal for me. All part of 'life's rich tapestry'. Apologies for this appallingly cliche ridden post! Also I guess I like engaging with kids. I always find the simple logic with no pretensions and agendas somewhat refreshing ... Also this thread started with a question concerning discreet breast-feeding and babies/kids just being there. Seems to have moved on a bit ...

 

OK. I can go along with that. Although I'd substitute the word irresponsible for selfish. Why not have a word with these parents yourself then?

 

I have in the past (staff don't like that though as you are suggesting that they aren't doing their jobs). One mother said she was on some program whereby the child should cry until it stops on it's own. What are you supposed to say to that!??

 

I am still perplexed at how anyone finds a bare female breast uncouth or offensive at any time. It is probably down to how I was brought up, experiencing Scandinavian beaches, communes and outdoor festivals, etc, where topless girls (and a bit of nudity) was commonplace. So I find feeding a baby totally inoffensive.

 

Just avoid places poor people go to and you don't have any of this nonsense.

 

Dunno. Tricky! Refer her to Dr. Spock's baby raising manual that says the complete opposite? Make it up? I'd always say what I think first and then worry about the fallout later though. And whether the staff were/weren't doing their job's really neither here nor there. Take control ... I doubt you'd get banned!

 

I'd have asked what programme was that 'Britain's worst mother'?

 

Stop it. You're making the lefties uncomfortable.

 

Dunno - was some well heeled, pretentious, posh mother. Reminded me of Gwyneth Paltrow.

 

Threads evolve, much like any other form of conversation.

I must confess to being surprised by the weight of opinion against my stance, which leads me to believe I might well be in the wrong on this one.

I shall now leave the discussion to give myself a good talking to.

 

Why? You can't get more institutionally lefty than Scandinavia. When has the left ever had a problem with permissiveness?

 

It's like moog says, you are forced to invent scenarios to falsely shore up a generalisation. On the other 19 tables at least one person is going to drink too much alcohol and have a laugh like someone sawing concrete. Who to ban then?

 

Very well said. I do the same thing all the time too!

 

I meant that ZZ was agreeing with many of you, a position I'm sure you find equally as uncomfortable as riding reverse cowgirl on Amazing Omar.

 

How is it an invented scenario? It's happened to me 5/6 times. Are you really suggesting that a child has never in history played up in a decent restaurant and the parents have done little to entertain the bored child?

 

Are you suggesting other adults don't ever play up?

5 or 6 times? Don't you ever cook at home? Anyone else this has happened to 5 or 6 times? Cue Diamond and ZZ...

 

There's nothing wrong with an opinion being changed by a good argument, but certainly not by weight of opinion. I've had my views broadened by many threads on forums. What you'll notice is there are some who are simply unable to do that though, so arguing is futile. On most forums those are easy to spot.

 

Keep fishing. :smiley-sport021:

 

Not me. I never go to Maccy Ds.

 

Just leading them into a false sense of security!

 

Woohoo ! I've found someone even more intolerant than me!

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/11/26/us-judge-says-lesbians-can-be-cured-by-male-soldiers/

 

One thing I do agree is selfish is the recent furore and judgement over disabled person's spaces on buses. I don't think that parents and children should be able to occupy these instead of disabled people who use wheelchairs who are only allowed on the bus if that space is free.

In the recent case the mother could have folded her pushchair and sat with the baby on a seat. However, she did not wish to wake the baby, meaning that whilst other non-disabled passengers could board the bus, the wheelchair user could not, clearly discriminatory.

 

Careful now Moose, you could be accused of changing the thread direction to suit your own needs.

Tricky one with the buses. I'd have thought if you know you're going to take the bus with a baby then you go for the small compact easy to fold away pram, that way if a wheelchair user needs the space then it's not difficult to move out of it. As usual, and I suspect what happened with the case you mentioned, is that the mother had a small spacecraft carrying her child, you know the type of pram I mean, meaning she really had no choice but to get off the bus which isn't an option.
First time parents get the super duper all the gadgets mega bast*rd f-off pram, where the 3rd time parents get the smallest, lightest and easiest to maneuver/fold away pram. I quite miss the pram days, you could get so much stuff on that thing.