Pozzo Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by RookeryLad, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. reids

    reids First Team

    I think all clubs can sort one if required and I know lots of players sort their own for 1 to 1s but I'm not sure most clubs routinely have one "in-house".

    Edit: seems like it's more widespread than I thought - https://thefootballpsychologyshow.c...orting-players-performance-and-mental-health/ - our heading doesn't really fill me with confidence though!
     
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  2. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    There is not a person on this forum who has said that
     
    WatfordTalk likes this.
  3. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    Great post. I think we need a more empowered CEO and/or Technical Director who is independent of the Pozzos. Someone like Dane Murphy at Forest or Dan Ashworth - with fresh ideas to refresh how we go about things. I don’t think the model is as innovative as it was but there are still aspects to the network/infrastructure that we can and should lean into more (eg South American scouting - maybe buy a South American and/or a Belgian club and create more of a consistent pipeline).
     
  4. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    You clearly weren't at the Grimsby game then when it was slightly more than a couple of banners
     
    We hate 48 likes this.
  5. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Interesting. So Xisco's assistant had some knowledge in this area. I wonder if the club would benefit from employing one permanently. Especially as they seem to target players who have fallen by the wayside and mental fragility within the squad appears to be common theme since Pozzo took over.
     
  6. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I don't disagree with your overall sentiment. I believe we have good owners, but they are making too many silly mistakes. Don't forget, Gino Pozzo gets hurt in the wallet every time it goes wrong. We are fans, but we don't suffer financially because of his errors. He puts his money where his mouth is and that's something we shouldn't really dismiss likely.

    A set-piece coach is a good idea, although he would probably be part of the overall managerial team. Nearly all head coaches/managers want to work with their own staff. I cannot see too many being happy with a resident set-piece coach as he may not align with his way of thinking. A good set-piece coach only really makes sense if we employ a project manager who will be around for a period of time, and not a firefighter as has been the case in recent seasons.

    We do actually have a loan manager now. Employed at the beginning of the season as this was something the club themselves recognised needed doing.

    With regards to the lower league punts, sure that's fine, but I think we're doing that already. With younger players it's a slow burn and will take several years before you start to see the benefit of it. This season we've signed Kwadwo Baah, Matty Pollock, Aaron Benn, Billy Osborn, Jonathan Macauley, Darrin Enahoro-Marcus, Adrian Blake, George Abbott, Charlie Davies, Jack Grieves, Harvey Peters, Andres Aguilar, Ethan Goulding, Toby Adeyemo, Bogdan Marian, Vincent Angelini, Dapo Mebude, Jake Morris, Josh O'Brian, Samuel Okoye & Yaser Asprilla. That's a lot of young talent to add to others from previous seasons. Most wont make it, but some will.

    Everything stems from which league we operate in. If we stay up, and that's a big IF I know, then we'll be a very strong position to invest. I would expect the Pozzo's to thank their lucky stars and then to invest in a new culture and new approach. This is what I hope will happen. We need a longer term manager to oversee a project, and they shouldn't be scared to spend a bit of money in getting someone of real pedigree. I would love someone like Hodgson to become an advisor. He's a real football man and would be a huge asset to any organisation.

    We work in the margins, and that is fine, but we do need to be smarter in the way we operate. We can afford some low risk punts, but we need some real intelligence and joined up thinking when we sign players. These players have to fit a system and have the personality to play for the coach. I'm pretty sure the Pozzo's see the interchangeability of a head coach as a strength, because they know they can sack him without it being a big upheaval. This is something Duxbury has previously claimed with pride, but I think it's time to now move away from that model. Hire a project manager and sign a few key players who he really wants. Work with the head coach far more and have a greater understanding of his needs. Don't use the fear of sacking a coach as the motivation to work independently from him. Far greater trust has to be placed with the head coach, but they need to really work hard to identify and get the right person then to support him fully.

    I think it all stems to getting the head coach right. Give him a bigger say and trust his judgement.

    One thing is clear, we need to break away from how we do things currently. Just look at this season for example. It's virtually a carbon-copy of our last relegation season. Both times we started with a head coach who should have left in the summer, then the next appointment was an ill-judged disaster, followed by a firefighting British coaching team. It's virtually identical so lessons really haven't been learned at all. They are reacting in the exact same way as before.

    I'm hoping by the end of this season we would have survived, and at least some of my points will be implemented going forward.
     
  7. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Your response doesn’t make sense. But I’ll save the tedium of a proper response.
     
  8. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I would take pretty much any other vaguely sensible owner. I’ve outlined the reasons why so not going to repeat them.
     
  9. reids

    reids First Team

    It was essentially killed with the widespread adoption of WyScout/InStat. It literally takes a few clicks of the mouse to find videos of every action of any 18 year old who made their debut in Colombia/Chile this weekend, whereas previously such technology wasn't as readily available and the Pozzos video room was king. That's lead to clubs going directly to the source of those clubs and skipping the Udinese/Watford step of the chain that used to previously exist (saving the buying clubs a wedge in money as well) - the model needs to change.

    Edit: Wanted to show you all literally how easy it is to find youngsters making their debuts now

     
    hornetfan, Heidar, SkylaRose and 3 others like this.
  10. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Pretty much what was said on 5live a few weeks ago.

    The Pozzo scouting system is no secret now .
     
  11. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Well, technically he puts money he's borrowed against various assets where his mouth is. That's another thing that changed in the past 4 or so seasons. We went from the family bunging a couple of million in to tide us over to racking up big debts on paper.
     
  12. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Do you know of anybody!
     
  13. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Can we not hire James Ward-Prowse(sp?) from Southampton to teach some basic techniques? Although that might be seen as a bit shady.
     
  14. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    To think we were linked with a move for him a few years back.
     
  15. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    But that's the issue, how do you know that's what we will get. I might be wrong but I think Blackburn fans were reasonably pleased when the Venky's took over but that went sour, Mel Morris was doing ok for a while before he lost the plot. The game is littered with poor owners. I would love a new owner if it guaranteed certain things would change, but much like politicians, they can promise one thing to get you onside but deliver something completely different. Gino is not doing what many of us want currently but would somebody new be so much better? I guess we may find out at some point
     
    Captain Mandibles likes this.
  16. reids

    reids First Team

    I wasn't trying to get myself a job with that post! But what I actually do in my role would probably suit the Watford model more than an actual set-piece coach would. I do the report and the analysis, come up with a couple of ideas that I think would be effective. Then have a weekly meeting with the coaching staff where we go over the report and discuss my ideas and the ideas the coaching staff have had then together we come up with a blend of what we'll use in the match - it might be one of my routines and 2 of the coaching staffs or vice versa, but it's collaborative and I'm not directly telling the coaching staff what to do (which could be a more delicate way of doing it so as to avoid the clashes that HB1 mentioned in his post)
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  17. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    I think some have become so entrenched in their Pozzo-hatred that any defence of the ownership is seen as hero-worship.

    I'd guess that the vast majority of fans are overall pleased with Gino and the successes we've enjoyed, but also acknowledge that they've made a vast amount of ****-ups.
     
  18. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    And in 1975 with relegation to Div 4 upload_2022-2-2_13-52-18.jpeg -pitch invasion-followed by sporadic vandalism in the town


    The guy in the picture still goes-maybe still has the scarf!
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  19. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    COG defence mechanism #66 - ‘you must specifically and directly name a potential owner for your suggestion that a better owner is out there to be acknowledged. The real fans (us) knew all about the Pozzos before they bought the club.’
     
  20. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I like the idea of a set-piece coach.
    The idea of a set-piece taker I like even more.
     
    Steve Leo Beleck likes this.
  21. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I was there that night. I was only a schoolboy but the number of people who turned up to support a dire team made me believe that my club could be something one day.
     
  22. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Is it you?!
     
  23. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Wasn't he deemed not good enough by our expert fans?
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  24. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    If you're not Biff from BTTFII and know for a fact that a new owner will deliver a decade of success, then don't @ me.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  25. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I don’t see how anyone can do much worse from the below viewpoints:

    - debt
    - waste
    - opaqueness with Udinese
    - joined at hip with agent accused of financial crime
    - lack of communication
    - lack of transparency
    - lack of respect for manager position
    - lack of team spirit
    - player trading model at expense of first team focus
    - polarised divided fanbase
    - lack of any home grown players

    That said I fully expect a new owner probably would not be able to match the last 10 years. But I’m fine with that as the cost above is too much.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  26. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I’d be amazed if the “vast majority of fans are overall pleased with Gino”. You are kidding yourself.
     
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  27. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Yeah. Apparently he's average apart from the free-kicks.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  28. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    For a moment there I thought you were letting us in on the next stage of the Pozzo Head Coach Fiasco....sod employing them directly, just get one in on loan.
    I was mildly disappointed when I realised what you really mean.
     
    reids likes this.
  29. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    I'd be amazed if they weren't. The negatives you mentioned above are all fair points, but for the average fan, if we're doing well on the pitch, they're happy. And for the last 10 years, for a club like ours, we've done well on the pitch.
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  30. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    And numerous posts suggested that would have been a ridiculous, bad signing.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  31. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I think that's fair enough especially where you mention you accept we may not get the same success. I don't agree with a change of ownership but definitely with a change in how we operate currently.
     
  32. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I've never liked Walsall since.
     
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Yes I agree with that (although I think we are about to hit quite a barren patch the next few years). However, the costs of that success (listed) mean I can’t stand my club at the moment and that’s too high a price for me personally.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  34. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Yep, and that's completely fair and you're entitled to feel that way. My only point was that most fans are likely content with the overall picture that they're seeing, and most won't even know what a 'Mogi Bayat' is.
     
  35. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    But it’s fair to say that Udinese have never changed their operation (although their fans didn’t NIMBY a new stadium like ours), why would they change - what they, you and others seem to suggest what has been an overwhelming success?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2022

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