New European Super League

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by The Voice of Reason, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    And yet they are owned by Joe Lewis - with a personal estimated wealth of £3.9 billion.

    They can afford not to do this - but it would require their owner to pay off the debt they’ve accrued. Most of the owners of the English clubs could pay off their debts - they just don’t want to as it will affect their personal fortunes, which they are looking to add to, not spend.

    They could clear their debts overnight with a simple bank transfer. And then set about reforming their own clubs structures and wage bills so they run prudently. But they don't want to - they've become accustomed to their way of living and would rather kill everyone else off to preserve their own way of life.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  2. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    And this is the crux of the matter, all of these owners have had their toy but it's cost them more than they get returns for, now they want some way of clawing some back.
  3. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Which is why they want the ring fenced cash. They’ve been burnt by our pyramid model and found out that simply spending X buying a club doesn’t guarantee you Y in income every year, like it does in America.

    Running a successful, profitable football club in England requires a lot of skill and a lot of smart decision making, unless of course you get the rules changed so that it doesn’t.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  4. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Qualification is based on the league's UEFA coefficient score, with leagues whose teams do better in European competitions getting more places - seems reasonable.

    Also, what do you mean by "easier qualification path"? Do you think it's odd that all the minnows given an opportunity to make it to the group stage have to go through pre-qualifying rounds, similar to non-league clubs in England trying to reach the FA Cup?

    Also, how is seeding making things rigged? Seeding is commonly used in different tournaments and sports around the world, from the World Cup to Wimbledon; are those tournaments "rigged" as well? And if the seedings were a nonsense, then non/lower-seeded entrants would regularly get passed the higher-seeded entrants, but it rarely happens. It makes little difference in ensuring "clubs from the same limited pool make the quarter finals onwards", because the reality is that those are the clubs that in the vast majority of cases win when up against less established clubs anyway.
  5. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    The reality is that usually moving to a CL club will also mean more money. It is very rare for a player at the peak of their career to move from a CL club to a EL one.

    Man Utd and Liverpool have struggled to sign the top players in summers when they've missed out on top 4, despite having a lot of money to throw about; often the contracts offered would be similar enough that for the sake of a few £k here and there players will choose clubs in the CL over EL.
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    The Premier League is a company with 21 shareholders, 20 of which are the member clubs. As it stands they have a rule (not sure if it's in the articles of association or just the PL rule book) that says broadcast rights are sold collectively. But that could change with a shareholder vote, as with any other.
  7. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    And that's the beauty of the FA Cup, where from round 3 everyone is in the hat together.
    Throw seeding out of the window next season. Europa Cup, Champions League, Euros and World Cup, imagine how much more fun all of those would be with no seeding whatsoever.

    That's how to save football.
  8. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    If you expunged the top six, Watford would have won the league in 2018/19

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  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Wolves have already claimed that title on Twitter. Cheeky bastards.
  10. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    If you actually like at viewing figures clubs like Newcastle and Leeds really don’t get that many. I posted the other day a game between Newcastle vs Burnley got no more viewers than a championship game featuring Norwich. Sure they have a few more fans, nationally and globally, but it’s absolutely sod all in relation to the big 6.

    I think if clubs like Leeds and Newcastle have any sense they’ll realise the benefit comes in the league being competitive. If a few remaining clubs like Leeds and Newcastle want to try and basically do what the big 6 are doing now, then the PL will end up a pretty crap product which will be completely counter productive to them in the long run.
  11. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

  12. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    My Plan to Save Soccer, as I called it, proposed a closed-shop European Showbiz League with the following features:

    - four quarters of 20 minutes to maximise advertising time and take account of tellyviewers' short attention spans;

    - unlimited subs, to enable players to maximise their branding opportunities (we're getting there);

    - wider goals, for higher scores;

    - no draws, instead shootouts to get results (as in English Cup competitions).

    With hindsight, I should also have required Showbiz League teams to maintain a roster of extras. They would be engaged to fill unsold seats and would be supplied with the appropriate shirts and required to make a lot of noise. As we know, atmosphere is so important for tellysoccer.
  13. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I haven't read the whole thread but for this to work there presumably needs to be some good media deals. I've listened to TalkSport and SkySports and not heard either of the say they won't bid for the rights because you know full well that they will
    Happy bunny likes this.
  14. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    World Cup with no seeding would be cack - imagine a group with Saudi Arabia, Australia, Morocco and Iceland in it. How many people would give a toss? What if you ended up with one half the draw with only one of the big teams in it, say Spain, and they were able to get to the final by only playing say Panama, Tunisia, Costa Rica, Peru, Senegal and Mexico? Again, utter cack.

    Similar with the Champion's League, except swap Spain for e.g. Real Madrid, and the likes of Saudi Arabia and Panama for Midtjylland and Ferencvaros.
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  15. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    To be fair, we've had Covid news up top every day for a year and nothing much new happened in that yesterday.
  16. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Because I suspect the deals are already in the pipeline and likely have nothing to do with Sky/BT/others. I’m no fan of the way they operate and find it rich how they air the views how this will kill a game they tried charging £15 per game for until recently - but I do genuinely believe they’ve been blindsided by all this and their noses have been put out of joint because they aren’t involved.

    JP Morgan have put the money up that will be borrowed against future broadcast money - they will have an idea of what they will be getting and I suspect they will be getting it from streaming services and their own as yet unformed channel a la NFL Network.
  17. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    A bit like the last World Cup then? Which we all thought was awesome.
    wfcmoog likes this.
  18. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Yeah I'd also expect that they'll be showing everything via their own network/streaming service.
  19. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Wasnt this pretty much what Southgate did last World Cup? :)
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  20. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Erm, like it in what way? It was seeded and there were generally 2 good teams and 2 weaker teams in each group.
  21. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    We still had to face Belgium, Colombia and Croatia - all of whom were seeded in either Pot 1 or Pot 2. No seedings could mean making it all the way to the final only playing teams who would usually be in Pot 4, that's a significant difference.

    We were also fortunate that some of the top teams put in our half of the draw, e.g. Spain and Germany, had absolute nightmares that year.
  22. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    We're a top 7 club, I've always said it. So why don't we demand one of the three places up for grabs?
  23. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    In Hertfordshire, yes.
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  24. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    That's an extreme view and an unlikely scenario, but hey, if it helps make my point easier to understand for you then I think such a grouping, (Saudi Arabia, Australia, Morocco and Iceland), would be bl**dy refreshing to watch. Are you telling me that Australia getting to the semi final of the World Cup wouldn't be one of the best things that could possibly happen?

    Of course the smaller teams are highly unlikely to make the final, but that doesn't stop them and their fans dreaming of it which is whythe FA Cup works.
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  25. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    One alarming snippet I read somewhere is that ‘some top level legal firms’ are also involved alongside JP Morgan. Could explain how bullish those behind the ESL are in their claims that there will be no penalties levied on the signed-up clubs and their players.
  26. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I think the groupings for the finals should include teams from each region, but beyond that, no seeding.
  27. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    That's hardly a surprise, is it? Very likely indeed that the law will become involved and they would have been nuts not to take legal advice before taking the plunge.
  28. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    We wouldn't have had that insipid 'wear a waistcoat day' horse manure otherwise.
    Diamond likes this.
  29. R4E

    R4E Reservist

    Yeah, but they just based it on league position, still counting the results of games involving the top 6. If those results were expunged (because those 6 teams weren't in the league) then we come out on top.

    So in fact, we'd have won the double as Man City wouldn't have been in the FA Cup!
  30. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    I know, but the gist of the comment seemed to imply deeper involvement than simply providing legal advice.
  31. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Some sort of sponsorship? I'd be surprised: law firms are usually pretty wary of that sort of thing as it associates them with a particular 'side' of an argument rather than in principle being accessible to all.
  32. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    Does this legal advice take into account Boris Johnson's threat to use - if necessary - a 'legislative bomb' to stop English clubs from joining the European Super League in his meeting with the F.A., the Premier League and fans' groups?
    La_tempesta_cielo_68 likes this.
  33. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    It would surely be surprising if that prospect hadn't been discussed. It's not clear to me how the clubs could 'defuse' such a 'bomb' and still continue with their plans, though. In the old days they could perhaps have had recourse to EU law, but not any more...
  34. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Seeding in tournaments doesn't make that impossible either, but the truth is everyone knows as soon as one of the minnows such as Australia (or Watford) come up against one of the big guns, such as France (or Man City), then 99 times out of 100 they'll lose.

    I've never been that bothered about the FA Cup as a fan of Watford for that precise reason, even during our run a few years ago.
  35. If the Government decide to create a new law and parliament votes it through there isn’t much can be done is there? Except move the clubs lock stick and barrel abroad.

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