Performances are also important. The fact tonight was so predictable, was because performances have been utterly rancid every week.
Time for Vlad just to swallow it and bin the 3-5-2. Obviously it would be better to actually have a left back but **** it, let's just play Kiko there (even though he's provided two quality assists in recent games as right wing back). Let's move to a flat back four, three in midfield, and three upfront with Sarr on the right and Sema on the left, flanking Pedro. We'll still have a massive Abdi shaped hole as a creative midfielder in this league until we can shovel Hughes back onto the pitch. But at least if you play Sarr and Sema wide and further forward respectively, they'll get balls in the box. Quina is done. Ivic has backed him with several starts this season and he's shat the bed every time. As soon as he ****ed up that first corner, might as well have subbed him. He doesn't believe in himself and he's so, so weak. Constantly on the floor, as someone strolls away with the ball after a fair and not even that firm challenge. If we can, at some point let's go to 4-4-2. It's so depressing to think after watching the last few seasons but a Gray - Deeney partnership feels like our best chance of promotion right now. Even though they've both been rancid individually for a few years, as a combination they caused problems for lower Premier League defences. It'll mean abandoning any idea of nice football and probably won't even work but what else are we going to do? Carry on like this? We're in a false position because of some residual moments of quality in the squad. On the balance of play in most games we should be on about a point a game.
We all agree it was poor. I agree with Watford Talk that lots of young players will have ups and downs and WW were due a point,given their last three performances. Am I disappointed,of course but I can remember a few equally poor performances and whisper it very softly,some of them from SGT teams,Orient at home being the most abject. This league is a slog and there will be turgid football,there has been already but let's get some perspective. Good night and COYH!
Mixed bag performance, looked woeful at times to absolutely bossing it at others. Had the feel of a cup game to me, we were their cup final and will be to a lot of the lower teams so we need to up our game. Foster MOM. Akinfenwa was fun to watch, our boys didnt know how to handle him at all.
Performances can matter, and sometimes not if the 3 points have been gotten. Ivic's/board's target is promotion, so its all about getting the points on the board. I don't believe we have been as bad as tonight every week.
We’ve scored 8 goals in 8 matches. That is not promotion form. Even with injuries and the shenanigans surrounding the transfer window, we’ve still played the likes of Pedro, Sarr, Sema etc. And only managed 8 goals. (And one of those was an o g). Maybe Hughes will add to our goal threat, but until he plays we have a midfield that you wouldn’t expect to contribute much in goals scored. We play three centre backs but, bar CC’s header early on in the first match, we seem to pose no threat there to boosting our tally from set pieces. Murray is a spent force. Perica injured. Deeney way past his best. Hoping Gray will be the answer seems like hoping electric windows might be useful on a Trident submarine. A squad with a general lack of goals in it, led by a coach who seems happy to play a brand of football that practically outlaws such a thing anyway. Perfect.
It’s almost like many of us were asking for that as the window drew to a close and were told what we had was enough.
Yes. If you want a striker who knows what needs to be done - it's Murray. But age is his enemy. Wycombe had a player who they aimed for most of the time. Watford looked like they didn't know what to do in attack largely because there was no clear striker to pin-point. I'm sure there is a lot more to it than that, but part of the reason so many passes were so mis-hit, aimless or just wrong choices is because there was no focal-point and no over-arching tactical plan to create one.
That is erroneous, do you honestly think a left back would’ve changed that performance significantly enough to be anything more than utter ****?
Performances don't matter on one night,but they matter over the course of a season. Ivic and the board's target is ******* fanciful if we continue to perform like we do. You can nick a win like we did against Blackburn and Derby but you do not get promoted playing like a scared, negative side, with no idea how to construct an attack or even pass a football. We have now played the two worst sides in the division in Derby and Wycombe, and we were lucky to come away with 4 points from the two games. With the squad we have - that is completely and totally unacceptable. We had a player on there today who individually cost 6 times more than their annual budget ...
Yup. I’m sure someone will be along momentarily to say it’s harsh and he’s young and we should give him a chance. But he’s completely ineffectual. It actually felt unfair tonight that Ivic kept him on as long as he did. Almost like he was proving a point to the higher ups at the expense of a young player. Quina wasn’t in the game from the start. Misplaced passes, overplaying, still not able to protect the ball adequately while in possession, awful corners...he was doing that from very early on yet managed 70 minutes plus. Baffling. He’s been like it all season and just doesn’t look like a player suited to this division.
The few times we've seen Kiko play LWB this season it's been very frustrating, he has to cut onto his right foot and it kills a lot of the momentum we have going forward down that side, and I think Ivic knows that too. As much as I'd like to play 4-3-3 eventually, I'm not sure that was the issue today, that system isn't going to make Cleverley any more creative, and it's not going to inject a set of testicles into the defence. Get Hughes in the team and we'll start to actually control games more (although with such a busy schedule we can't play him every game). ******* annoying that Perica got injured, we really could have done with someone like him out there tonight, maybe Glenn Murray starts against Barnsley? Didn't get much time tonight, but at least made a decent run for himself to create an opportunity (maybe he could have done better with it, although it wasn't an easy chance by any means), and does give us another option, something that Pedro and Sarr can't
At least he was trying I guess, but he just looked such a fish out of water, just so so weak against their physical lads. OK, not every opponent is going to be like Wycombe, but has Quina just played Garner into that role full-time (and as much as Garner has played well at times, he's also had stinkers too)
And we all know how the club does in them. I said back in the summer we would be considered a scalp for teams, and that the club would have to be prepared for these match' so it is particularly disappointing to see such a turgid non-performance today. Did the players think that turning up was enough?
How is it erroneous? You said it. I think a LB would have made a difference as it would have allowed us to change shape and put other players in more natural positions. Can I guarantee it would have got us 3 points? No. But it would have given us far better balance as Cathcart was utter dross tonight - largely because he drew the short straw of being on the left hand side of a back 3 that is only being utilised because we don’t have a LB. If you want to argue with that point, then take it up with the manager of the football club who has said himself we need a LB. Why would he want one if not to improve performances to get more points?
He spends too much time claiming he's been fouled. Perhaps the little boy who cried 'wolf ' isn't a story in Senegal.
Half the time though he’s offside because he’s expecting a ball to be played through far sooner than the dullards behind him can serve it up. While they’re clogging around under-hitting hospital passes to one another or falling over like the Chuckle Brothers, he’s already on the shoulder of the defender and ready to sprint clear. He’s essentially a thoroughbred being fed turnips time after time.
I agree we would have to be better in the offensive third going forward. And hopefully we will be. The midfield keeps chopping and changing as well, when players are fit Ivic needs to make his mind up. Interesting you say with the squad we have, because a fair few on here ( not me btw) had been complaining before the season started that we not bought well enough, get rid of the owners, etc. In which case we have no divine right to automatically beat anybody. As for Sarr, he needs some support around him. He can't single handedly get us promoted. Pedro didn't support him well enough today, he had a poor game.
You've become very attached to the term "puerile" all of a sudden. I'm sure you do know what it means and are not confusing it with sterile but in what way is the current style of football childish ? Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
Make no mistake - I think our transfer window was pretty useless. Tonight showed that in abundance because we didn't have a left back, a creative midfielder or a striker on the pitch and we needed all 3. However, with all that said, we had more than enough available to beat a side who will be lucky to avoid a record points low this season. Tindall is practically a PE teacher and he has his side playing football rather than sitting with 11 men behind the ball trying to kick it long to our fast bloke in the hope they are out of position.
Murray’s run and shot at the end was at least vaguely promising that he can be an asset this season. Saturday if Gray not available I’d rather go 4-3-3 with Murray and Sarr/Pedro/Sema either side.
Yeah. I think it was way too late to switch to that formation tonight as Sarr and JP looked spent. I assume Sarr played as we literally had no one else to choose from. He's clearly going to get the Richarlison run in to the ground treatment.
Would rather play Femenia left-back like he did under Pearson. Foster Ngakia Cathcart WTE Kiko Capoue Garner Hughes Sarr Gray/Pedro Pedro/Sema Can’t really add anything else to what everyone else has said. I was quite positive up until tonight. That’s now drained away! The players just thought they could turn up tonight and waltz to 3 points! News flash, you arrogant overpaid c**ts, in the Championship you have to put in the hard yards and do the ugly stuff first and then let your quality take over!! We just tried to walk the ball in the net. Cleverley is a joke. So slow and weak. Ivic loves him though so he won’t be replaced. Offers nothing going forwards, gives the ball away and can’t defend. Same with Chalobah, another waste of space! Kabasele is a coward as well! The goal was pathetic! We are not good enough in either box. Unless something drastic changes like the system we aren’t going anywhere!
I literally texted my brother “oh good, we’re going 433.” He texted back “Chalobah playing RCB haha.”
A reply devoid of any detail and purposely avoiding the points I made. I NEVER said one player WOULD have transformed that performance in my reply to you. Every point I made was valid in response - none of it was ‘erroneous’ as you claimed. I’m not interested in a personal argument or a back-and-forth...but I have no idea where you’re going with your point either. The players were awful tonight and their attitude to winning the game was poor beyond words. But there are things we can look at as a fanbase and suggest might have changed things - we have plenty of players we can swap ‘man for man’ - but we are stuck to the formation we are because of the lack of an option in just one position at present. If we had an option there, things could have been different because our better players could have been happier and more confident in their natural positions. I’m not guaranteeing that would have happened - but it’s possible. It’s you who it strangely claiming it was impossible.
As would I. But it’s a moot point I think because as I said earlier, Ivic hasn’t put him as LB once, despite the manager claiming he wants to be able to play a different shape. He clearly doesn’t see him as an option there.
Opposition teams are pressing us and forcing mistakes and we lose possession. We do not press the opposition so they have time on the ball and gain control. The tactics and formation are wrong. 3 CB's? Forget it. Get an extra man up front!
It is, in fairness, pretty disingenuous and puerile to pretend that you think for one second Burnsy is saying that having a left back would fix all the problems with the team, or that that was what his point was in mentioning it in the first place; in a similar way to pretending that you somehow can't recognise that having at least one player capable of playing every required position in your squad is a good and useful thing, particularly when the lack of it is something the Head Coach has already spoken publicly about and is preventing him from implementing the very formation he favours.
We would be more likely to score with a striker in the team. Any striker, with the only possible exception being Murray for 90 minutes.
This is where we are. Murray was on the pitch for 20 minutes, didn't hold the ball up once, didn't knit any play together but even then at least he made one intelligent run, dragged a shot wide and now seems like a better option. It's so, so frustrating because it's true. It's just a question of finding a least worse option.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for you be wetters tonight . You didn’t quite get the result you wanted because we somehow managed to scrape a draw , but I’m not going to be such a bad sport as to take away from your night of glory .
Remember we have just handed Cleverley a 3 year deal. The direction of this club is unfathomable. I am mainly sad after tonight. Only 8 games in but we are playing negative football always on the back foot and have looked second best in almost every game. I just want to enjoy watching Watford again and I really have no idea when that will happen consistently again.
I'm not sure I'd want Murray to try anything but be the out-and-out striker. He just won't have the legs for anything else. And nor would I expect him to put in the full 90 minutes. But that run and shot, inside the penalty area, is classic Murray. It is what he has done, again and again, over the years. If we can supply him the balls into the box, he will score goals.
