Flight Chaos! Britain Is Grounded!

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 28, 2023.

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  1. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    The air traffic control system went down.

    The techs say it's all gone. Wiped. Some sort of hardware failure. Backups? Yeah there's backups but it's the flight plans from the last time we backed up in 2017 and it's terabytes and we've only got an ADSL Internet connection. Can't get hold of the big tech boss. On holiday somewhere apparently. Can't be contacted.

    The boys in the control tower are having to enter the flight plans manually. Like the old days.

    80-90% of flights delayed.
     
    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 28, 2023
    #1
  2. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Was going home to Detroit this fella from Amsterdam. But got delayed!

    upload_2023-8-28_19-34-24.png
     
    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 28, 2023
    #2
  3. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    These ladies are trying to get home from Palma, Majorca but have been inconvenienced by the delays.

    upload_2023-8-28_19-35-53.png
     
    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 28, 2023
    #3
  4. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    We're in HELL! Brit FURY at flight delays. They harangue and swear at young airline rep who has never seen the inside of a traffic control centre and knows nothing about tbe software used.

    "I demand a flight to Manchester NOWWW!!!" they bellow.

    upload_2023-8-28_19-39-29.png
     
    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 28, 2023
    #4
    Lloyd likes this.
  5. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    To further compound the horror, the beer pumps at Malaga airport ran dry.

    It's ridiculous! They storm, red sunburned faces turning even redder with rage.

    upload_2023-8-28_19-42-44.png
     
    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 28, 2023
    #5
    CYHSYF likes this.
  6. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    1 word RUSSIAN HACKERS.
     
    Relegation Certs, Aug 28, 2023
    #6
    domthehornet, UEA_Hornet, Diamond and 1 other person like this.
  7. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    I’m currently in Majorca. Meant to be coming back tomorrow but not so sure. Looking forward to spending 24 hours in a hot terminal with two kids under 5.
     
    StuBoy, Aug 28, 2023
    #7
    SkylaRose and Clive_ofthe_Kremlin like this.
  8. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Good luck StuBoy, feel your pain
     
    Diamond, Aug 28, 2023
    #8
    StuBoy likes this.
  9. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Can confirm there have been angry people confronting the travel reps here in Cancun. We're not heading home til Wednesday PM, so not fussed for now. Mas tequila senor!

    Plus we've had a couple of days of Tropical Storm (soon to be Hurricane) Idalia revving up just off the coast before it heads off to batter Florida in 36hrs. Looks like a biggun in the making. Cuba also in the firing line tonight.
     
    UEA_Hornet, Aug 28, 2023
    #9
    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin likes this.
  10. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Yep Pinar del Río - the westernmost province is on high alert. That's the tobacco growing country.
     
    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 28, 2023
    #10
  11. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    That's what happens when you switch the core language of ATC from Ada to C++. It's more than likely a memory overflow or leak, and to prevent further damage the system has gone into "Safe Mode". It will come back up, but will probably take a few days for everything to get back to normal, then there is the backlog of angry flights.

    "From July 2021 all Air Traffic Control Software will be written in C++ instead of Ada. This change is needed due to the ever-growing pace of the aviation industry. There has never had a problem writing the software in Ada, but with the new C++ standard around the corner, flight pathing can keep up with today's technology in an ever-changing world."

    Not saying this would of happened regardless, but it's odd that the first major hiccup of the software occurs just months after the big technology change. C++ is a dangerously unsafe language when not used correctly. It's filled with bloat and so many different ways of doing one thing efficiently this was bound to happen. Ada is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination and has it's problems, but there is a reason it's used and still used today in safe, secure, critical safety software.

    I do really feel for everyone involved, from the staff to the passengers. Fingers crossed they can fix the problem soon so everybody can get to their destinations. Track it, Trace it, Prevent it.
     
    SkylaRose, Aug 28, 2023
    #11
    Jersey Hornet72, StuBoy, Clive_ofthe_Kremlin and 2 others like this.
  12. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    Looks like a scene from Airport, that flight show on ITV a few years back. Leo I think the young lad was called, one of the customer reps and was an icon of how to address angry customers.
     
    SkylaRose, Aug 28, 2023
    #12
  13. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Currently in Majorca but not due to fly til 7th Sept, so probably all will be back to normal by then.
     
    The Voice of Reason, Aug 29, 2023
    #13
  14. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    UEA_Hornet, Aug 29, 2023
    #14
  15. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Thank you very much for this important announcement. Please keep us posted.
     
    Relegation Certs, Aug 29, 2023
    #15
    Arakel, Teide1, Clive_ofthe_Kremlin and 2 others like this.
  16. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Seeing you have won 2 out of 4 of the prediction leagues rounds, you should have been able to predict this ATC problem!
     
    Teide1, Aug 29, 2023
    #16
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  17. Malteser2

    Malteser2 Reservist

    @StuBoy All the best for getting home today. It can’t be easy for you there with a young family, but hope you’ve had a good holiday at least.

    It seems yesterday was caused by a French airline messing up their flight plan, rather than anything sinister such as hacking. Hmmmm.
     
    Malteser2, Aug 29, 2023
    #17
    StuBoy likes this.
  18. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Air Traffic Controllers right now.
    IMG_3115.jpeg
     
    Moose, Aug 29, 2023
    #18
    Diamond, sydney_horn, StuBoy and 4 others like this.
  19. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Well worth for a Planes, Trains and Automobiles 2.
     
    Smudger, Aug 29, 2023
    #19
  20. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Good luck finding an unoccupied stall!
     
    Since63, Aug 29, 2023
    #20
  21. Since63

    Since63 Squad Player

    Are you saying you’d grade the move from Ada as E- rather than C++ or have I misunderstood?
     
    Since63, Aug 29, 2023
    #21
  22. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You can keep the Costa Brava and all of that palaver, Going no farther, me I'd rather have me a day down Margate with all me family.
     
    Moose, Aug 29, 2023
    #22
    hornmeister and Lloyd like this.
  23. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Can't beat a bit of Chas and Dave! Both highly respected musicians don't you know
     
    Lloyd, Aug 29, 2023
    #23
    Moose likes this.
  24. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Dear BBC Travel Helpline

    My wife and I are due to travel on the Euro tunnel later this week. Is our journey likely to be affected by the air traffic control situation?

    Thank you

    Yours sincerely

    Mr and Mrs Cre tin
     
    Lloyd, Aug 29, 2023
    #24
    sydney_horn, HappyHornet24, Clive_ofthe_Kremlin and 2 others like this.
  25. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Further proof that the French don’t like us
     
    davisp2, Aug 29, 2023
    #25
  26. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    Back home now and we got away with it for sure today. Went through the airport onto our flight and back home as if the storm hadn’t happened in Majorca on Sunday and the AT failure hadn’t happened yesterday. So thankfully, for the kids especially, the travelling was fine. I must say, although things aren’t great, as usual the media spin is making it out to be travel Armageddon. Of course that’s just my experience from Palma in Majorca today.
     
    StuBoy, Aug 29, 2023
    #26
    Diamond, CYHSYF, Clive_ofthe_Kremlin and 2 others like this.
  27. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Thoughts and prayers.
    IMG_3117.jpeg
     
    Moose, Aug 29, 2023
    #27
    CarlosKickaballs, Arakel, UEA_Hornet and 1 other person like this.
  28. reids

    reids First Team

    Was in Pisa last week for work and got delayed by 5 hours or so. To make matters worse the only time I could get dropped at the airport was 4 hours before my flight. God I hate airports.
     
    reids, Aug 29, 2023
    #28
  29. fuzzy73

    fuzzy73 Squad Player

    I wondered when a paper was going to report on the real victims of all this
     
    fuzzy73, Aug 29, 2023
    #29
    CarlosKickaballs, Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Ilkley and 1 other person like this.
  30. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    No, C++ is a programming language as is Ada. They are relatively the same age and size but Ada is a much safer language. C++ has big problems due to it's handling of memory, almost all of it is done with raw pointers that are coded by hand. While not a problem in the hands of an experienced developer, the slightest slip up could spell the sort of disaster we have seen.

    Code:
    class Example
{
public:
    Example();
    ~Example();

protected:
    unsigned int*       sum;
};
    Usage in program without proper care:

    Code:
    if (sum == 10)
{
 // do something
}
else
{
    try  // this will always fail
    {
        restart();
    }
    catch(unhandled Exception ex)
    {
        // do something with the exception
    }
}
    In a nutshell, the statement sum == 10 will fail because the computer is trying to access a possible non-positive number by it's value. Because 'sum' is declared within the sample class as a pointer to the address of sum, it will not return any result that the can be computed. Pointers need to be "de-referenced" when they are used. You could get the memory address of sum with:

    Code:
    int sum = ∑
    To correct the above example, sum needs to computed with the memory address that sun is pointing to. Hence:

    Code:
    if (*sum == 10)
    Is valid because sum is not being directly accessed, the memory location of where the computer has the value of sum stored is.

    Now in Ada, pointers do exist, but they are used very sparingly. Instead of accessing the data through a manual call to the address by de-reference, it is already known to the compiler at compilation due to the variable being declared having the access to the value granted through the language.

    Code:
    type Example is tagged record
Sum : Natural;
end record;
    So now I have created a single record (package) that holds single variable sum, which is declared to be Natural (it cannot be false positive or negative). It's also "tagged" so it's access is restricted.

    Code:
    type My_Example is access Example;
    This is the same as the C++ statement, but the de-reference is not required. My_Example already has full access to the memory address of Sum through the tagged record type.

    This is a very small example of how safety differs between the two languages, but the main point is, if the error within the ATC was a memory leak this the main cause of it. Just missing out an single '*' when executing the binary will send the program into meltdown, because this sort of error, as far as the C++ standard is concerned, is 100% correct.
     
    SkylaRose, Aug 29, 2023
    #30
    CarlosKickaballs and Ilkley like this.
  31. Ilkley

    Ilkley Formerly known as An Ilkley Orn Baht 'at

    I do love to hear from people who know what they're talking about.
     
    Ilkley, Aug 29, 2023
    #31
    CarlosKickaballs and SkylaRose like this.
  32. Clive_ofthe_Kremlin

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin Squad Player

    Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Aug 29, 2023
    #32
  33. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    :p
     
    The Voice of Reason, Aug 29, 2023
    #33
  34. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Squad Player

    I'm flying back from Pisa tomorrow. I don't care if it doesn't happen. Got my laptop and the weather picks up tomorrow.

    Off topic, but I went to Pisa v Parma tonight. Really good game, nice little stadium and the 8,000 there made more noise than 10 English clubs put together. The highlight was a 10 minute instrumental version of Spirit in the Sky.
     
    Robert Peel, Aug 29, 2023
    #34
    Jersey Hornet72, Malteser2 and SkylaRose like this.
  35. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I look forward to you getting this one going during the Birmingham game.
     
    UEA_Hornet, Aug 30, 2023
    #35
    Lloyd likes this.
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