Thoughts from the other side: http://dcfcfans.uk/topic/18367-derby-county-v-watford/?page=1 Surprisingly even though our form is amazing and theirs is really poor and we are 5 points ahead of them, most of their fans seem really superbly confident that they'll hammer us and and a lot on here seem to be massively pessimistic about the same result! Feels like it should be the other way around. We are second in the league right?
League position at this stage is easier to read speculatively though. The fact of the matter is almost totally irrelevant - people are (hopefully) not stupid enough just to look at the table and say "we're second we're better than them innit." At least if they are that stupid, one hopes they would also be able to look at the table after Easter weekend and say "we're not in second - we're sh*t - innit" almost as though there hadn't been two (how shall I put this) very losable games in between the two tables they looked at...,
Talk about the remaining 5 games all you like - the bare fact is that these two games are season defining. I personally think it will be a miracle if we get enough points from them to set up an automatic promotion challenge. I just don't think we are quite that club yet. People will then proceed to spout total bo**ocks which equates our failure to get automatic promotion to our failure to win huge games against big teams. This is immensely short sighted. This Championship season might be the most competitive many have ever seen but altogether different it is not. As ever, a team's fate near the top of the table will not be defined by their performance in big glamour ties, it will be determined by consistency. When I hear some people offer their (valueless) two cents on that debate, it is almost as though they have forgotten the first half of the season. It is almost as though they have forgotten that we lost 4 winnable games in a row. Let's fast forward a little. Hypothetically our season 'falls apart' over Easter weekend. Who is going to tell me that, let's say, 8 points from those 4 games wouldn't have overwritten our poor showing in big games? It is all hypothetical and seasons go like this, I know. I'm not looking forward to the possibility of having to try to hold my tongue when I hear the usual load of w*nk about how 4 or 5 top table games *****ed our season. Because frankly we didn't have to be reliant on those games. I would have thought everyone would know that rarely are miracles achieved in battles between those going for promotion in this division.
But I'm looking at league position and form. Derby are still confident that they can make the top 2. This is despite being 5 points behind 2nd, being 21st in the form table, and not winning a single game in the last 6. Some on here think we'll just make the play offs. This is despite sitting 2nd in the league, being 3rd in the form table, and winning 4 of our last 6, losing just once. Ok, as everyone says you can make stats out of anything, but my point is we should perhaps be feeling a little more confident than they are of making the autos. But we are much more pessimistic.
I agree with some of this. I am very bored about the not beating anybody in top 8 except Brentford and that we can't go up with a record like that. Utter rubbish. I'm sure there are Norwich fans saying, " it's all very well beating the sides at the top but we won't go up losing at home to teams like Wigan". The fact is the final table is based on results against everybody not just a select few. Like two years ago, if we don't go up it wont be because of one result but what has happened throughout the season. Having said this I don't think the upcoming Easter weekend is the sh1t or bust that some are making it. For what it's worth I reckon we will get 3 or 4 points from the two games but if we lost both why would it be all over? Everybody still has tough games to play and I'm sure there are surprise results to come as well.
I am expecting to dress my elderly mother,who is with us for Easter,in my Ighalo shirt,in an effort to restore winning ways. I am running low on lucky charms at this stage of the season. Hoping for a point,fearing a defeat as I have a loud mouthed DCFC fan in one of my squads.:doom:
There are some very good comments in this thread. I would just like to add that I think two draws from Easter weekend could be capable of maintaining an automatic promotion push. For example, three draws and four wins from our remaining matches earns us 15 points and, therefore, 87 points overall - a tally that could see us in the top two. Two draws is probably not the ultimate momentum starter, but we would have survived a tricky weekend and would be no more than three points behind the top two if results went against us.
Just so I'm clear you think it's all about these next 2 games and the next 5 are of less importance. You then say people are idiots to say it's all about these big games. Got it.
Would you rather two draws this weekend, or a loss & win? If so, which way round? I'm thinking a loss v Derby and win v Boro would actually be our most favoured results? 3 points rather than 2, and 0 points for Boro, who I think are more likely to be challenging.
I stand by what I've been saying over the last few weeks. Namely, first make sure we're guaranteed a play-off place. Don't mock this because a few weeks ago Derby looked set to go up automatically and now they're not even assured of a top 6. Us losing to Ipswich didn't help them in that regard, and it didn't help us to a much lesser extent either as it allowed 7th place (as was) to gain 3 points on us. Then, go for the top 2. It's such a tight league it'll probably go to the wire. A great time to hit a 3 or 4 game winning run will be the last 3 or 4 matches. Just stay in contention for now, be it 2nd or 3rd or whatever. We have a very decent run in after Forest, and one of the plus sides of our poor record against the top teams has been our total success against the lower ones. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be. If we're good enough to be promoted, we'll do ourselves proud on Friday and again next Monday. I'm optimistic because I've seen how good we've been recently (bar Ipswich). We all know what we are capable of, and Friday is a chance to show the watching world.
We just have to try and win every match. It's not like an 800m race sitting on the shoulder of the leader on the final bend or the 3.15 at Kelso approaching the last hurdle. We were ecstatic when we went top after Wigan. Where would you rather be now? In our or Bournemouth's position?
You may be right. I put forward the long distance runner analogy myself a few weeks ago, and I stand by what I said back then, namely that back then there were 12 games to go and I was quite happy with us being on the heels of the leaders. I think I was right because soon after that we came with our burst, and actually until Ipswich it looked as if we had timed our push to the front at exactly the right time. I agree with you about winning every match and I don't think in my last post there was anything that said I believed the opposite. I wasn't one of those who criticised us at 0-0 v Ipswich when we went gung-ho for the winner and got caught out. I want to see us win at Derby and believe we will. Not for me the 'take a point' attitude. I feel you might not have understand my views or misread my post slightly. While I of course want to see us 1st, I believe it's also a perfectly reasonable viewpoint to not be panicking if after Easter we drop to 3rd or whatever. We just need to make sure we're still in contention at the death. Of course we'd all prefer to be top with 4 games to go, but even if we're not, let's make sure we can still be the long distance runner who nicks it on the line. We went top after Wigan and cocked up the next match. Being top with 7 games to go isn't the be-all-and-end-all.
Joyce has been instructed as to her duties. At nearly 91 she is a little reluctant but quite likes the away shirt so has accepted her role. As she once queued for an FA Cup Semi ticket for me whilst I was away playing,she is no stranger to such peculiar requests!:sign15:
If one thing has been consistent this season is the top team slipping up! remember if we lose next 2 and win last 5 we will prob go up. I just so want bragging rights over my dad (derby fan) hadnt had them for about 2 years ! Think last time was a 2-1 win at the Vic.
Ha. Similar story. My Mum is now 91 too. At the time of the 2013 play-off final she was 89. I wasn't very hopeful of getting a ticket - not high enough up the pecking order. So she saw the ticket office number in the Wobbly and just phoned it up. Didn't pay any attention to the hierachy or anything. They asked for my details but there was no record of me because I'm registered at her address having had tickets sent there in the past. She didn't realise that. Then she gave my sister's name and address and they had a record of her. Then she probably said something like - "look, I'm nearly 90 you know". Anyway, my ticket arrived on the doormat the day after I got down to Ricky. Geddin there Mum.
Similar story to me to! For the play-off final vs Leeds I was at Uni. My dad had moved to Devon so wasn't a season ticket holder any more. I said to mum it would be great birthday present to go to the Final. She drove to Watford (15 miles) then sweet talked them to sell a ticket to her even though obviously I did't have any ticket history that year, I hadn't really thought about that when I asked her! Obviously, it was a an amazing present given the result. I've not yet managed to get her to wear a shirt though...
I don't care where we are in the table until after the last game of the season, when I want us to be first, or failing that, second.
OK. But I don't think there's any cause and affect going on here. When we went on our recent run it wasn't because of the position we were in. It just happened that way. If we'd already been ahead we'd be out of sight by now. Similarly, I don't buy the leader's 'poisoned chalice' bit either. It's just been a very tight campaign between up to nine teams so it's not surprising that the lead's changed hands on a number of occasions. So we didn't lose to Ipswich because we went top of the table four days earlier. It just happened like that. Similarly, I've seen it said on here (maybe by you, maybe not) that we lost out in 2013 because we failed against Leeds in match 46. No we didn't. We lost out because over the season of 46 matches we got two points less than Hull. If we'd won any of our drawn games we'd have been promoted on GD. Finally, our record against the top eight thing. It is quite important. If we were to swap our seven defeats against the other top eight clubs for victories and instead lost to seven of the also-rans where we've won we'd currently have the same points total but be relatively 3 points better off over Bournemouth, 6 over Norwich, 3 over Derby, 6 over Ipswich and 3 over Wolves. If you win those games you automatically deny your opponents points. Norwich are where they are partly because their record against the other contenders is so good. Whatever happens I won't be panicking either! And I also like the way the Joka goes for it which has generally served us well. He of course admitted it was a bit gung-ho against Ipswich which I thought was a classy thing to say. These comments are general ones around all this sort of stuff. Not a particular criticism of what you're saying.
I did say that about Leeds, yes. We didn't go up because we fell 2 points short, so yes we can look back and blame any match (Bristol City, the late draw with Burnley etc) but game 46 was the killer because there was no going back after that, whereas after all our other dropped points we were still mathematically in the hunt. That's why I'm quite laid back at the moment with 7 matches left. Obviously, as we've already discussed, I'd prefer to be 1st now. But the crucial thing is obviously to be top 2 after Game 46. Nobody can catch us after that! That's the point I'm making. Like you, I don't believe in the poisoned chalice. Being top should give a side more confidence. The table keeps changing. Every week it looks as if 2 different sides are in the box seat. Predictions for promotion change every week. We're in a good place. I'm happy with us being strong contenders. I'm confident we'll finish strongly. We just need to make sure everything is in place for that.
Morning 'Orns. RFIP. Don't know about you but this trying to get promoted lark isn't helping me stay calm and placid. Can't say it isn't good to be involved though and I'm trying to focus on how much better these past 2 seasons have been compared to the previous 6. Though QPR and Forest fans would like to think otherwise, most Derby fans were quite philosophical about losing in the PO final last year - Forest fans were reduced to tweeting repeated photos of a 7 year old boy and a middle-aged woman blubbing : grown men kept their cheeks dry and thought of how the team would be much stronger for the experience, leading to a glorious canter to the championship title. Losing George Thorne pre-season dampened any over-confident feelings though, but when we hit the top again in Jan/Feb everything looked rosy. The last 6 games have been a real set-back. Not that we've played too badly - only Fulham away was a real stinker of a performance - but we've been sloppy in defence, profligate in attack, and the continued absence through injury of Thorne and Martin (together with injuries to a few other players over that period) have left us short of our best. The rub of the green also seems to have deserted us. Fans are praying that Martin & Thorne at least will be back for the last 7 games to give us a timely boost. Unfortunately, the next 3 games are probably the ones where we'll need them most and I can't see them being 100% for those games, even if they're fit to play. We surely need to win 6 of them to have a chance of automatic promotion, but that seems unlikely at the moment, so securing a top 6 finish is probably our realistic hope now. Bournemouth and Norwich have relatively easy run-ins so overhauling them is going to be tough. Friday's game is a big one for both of us of course. It sounds like it will be a near sell out with a good following from you. I'm expecting an open game and possibly a high scoring one, but with our recent results I'm just not going to bother predicting the result, whatever team we put out. Anything could happen. If any of you are coming up for a 'session' beforehand there's a few pubs that do a decent pint and are away-friendly (unless you're an idiot) : I imagine there's no late train back, so most will be coming by road. If you want to park nearest the ground and have a drink, the Navigation on London Road is the away-designated pub : it's not great, but does cheap beer and food and you can be a bit noiser there than some of the other options; you can also either park on the road there or use the car park at the conference centre over the road for a fiver. There's also a Harvester on Pride Park that has parking and many of the businesses on Pride Park do match parking for a fiver or so. The Merlin on Pride Park, and the bars around the stadium, tend to be home fans only. If you've got time on your hands, park in the city centre (30 minutes walk to the ground or take the 45 bus from the bus station) and try some pubs on the Derby Camra Ale Trail http://www.derbycamra.org.uk/derby-pubs/ - most have no problem allowing in small groups of sensible away fans. Alternatively, park around the station area and try places like the Brunswick and Alexandra, which again allow in sensible away fans. The Station Inn and Crown and Cushion on Midland Road also welcome away fans, as does the Royal Telegraph on Traffic Street.
I wish I knew why, for the most part, away fans who post here are normal, regular football people whereas most Watford fans I see post regularly on other clubs' forums (Derby's included) are sycophantic embarrassments.
My personal preference would be to to be four points clear after match 45 so that all that's required for match 46 would be to have a party.
My predicted line-up for Friday (4-3-1-2): Gomes; Motta, Angella, Cathcart, Hoban; Guedioura, Watson, Tozser; Forestieri; Vydra, Deeney SUBS: Bond, Pudil, Connolly, Anya, Munari, Abdi (hopefully), Ighalo
Excellent #100 Crewton Ram and thanks for all the advice. In fact, the best post I've seen from a visitor.
0-0 first half, will Then lose by 1 or 2 in the second in a tight game. Alternatively we self destruct within 15 minutes of starting and lose 4-0
